Greek Summer Programme From Lba

[hotline]

This is something LBA has failed to have in any quantity for several years (basically since the demise of SunSeeker Leisure in 1994). Just wondering why. This summer, the only Greek flight is a weekly Corfu trip operated by Britannia, and utilised by Thomson and (I think) MyTravel. Last year, we had this flight plus a Wednesday Rhodes for half the season (MyTravel) and a Tuesday Heraklion (Transavia) which again was only for part of the season. Seemingly a rather half-a****d programme IMHO.
And now, even less.

I'm guessing here, but to do a full Greek programme from Leeds would more than likely necessitate the basing of a second aircraft
from MyTravel or Britannia. It could cover Santorini, Kos, Rhodes,
Skiathos, Corfu, Kefalonia, Zakynthos, Thessalonika, Chania and Heraklion and probably have time to do Paphos, Larnaca, Sardinia, Rome and Naples as well in the space of seven days. Would the tour operators/airlines be willing to base more than one aircraft at LBA for this purpose ? The thing is, the traditional Spanish destinations are served daily by Jet2 which probably doesn't do the tour operators any favours.

Anyone in the know care to comment on this one ? Getting fed up
having to fly from Manchester for my Greek sojourns !

[LBA]

Got to totally agree with that, although good news is that Britannia are starting Zakynthos with their based aircraft next year, and of course MyTravel already fly to Larnaca.

That is rather alot of routes for one a/c to do, I imagine without severe delays!

[682ft AMSL]

The LBA IT programme in general doesn't follow much of a logical pattern.

- Why do BY use a 767 in the low-season in May and June (and fill it) but then revert to the smaller 757 in peak season?

- Both BY and MYT fly to Reus, which is one of the least popular mainstream charter destinations, but BY don't serve:

ACE, FAO, LPA, FUE, PFO, LCA, RHO, ZTH, HER (all of which are more popular). And let's not forget, the BY machine is hardly stretched with its LBA programme.

and MYT don't serve CFU, PFO, RHO, ZTH, HER

- First Choice and Thomas Cook have a dedicated FAO and PMI and a small allocation of seats on the based MYT and BY aircraft - and that's it from the 3rd and 4th biggest package holiday companies.

- Balkan send A320s to Bourgas and Varna every week which are two of the least popular IT destinations (by volume of passengers) across the IT network. How can Balkan fill flights to these places, but TUI can't / won't serve Faro?

The reasons for all of the this I think are many and complex. Suffice to say, the biggest reasons are:

- failure to lift the night curfew when there was still a reasonable chance that IT operators would want to base a/c at Leeds

- proximity to MAN; most IT operators bank on potential customers being prepared to drive 60-90 mins to MAN and don't feel the competitive pressure to offer services out of Leeds to win
business. Somewhere like NCL is more remote and therefore does significantly better from a similar / smaller catchment area.

- the lack of appetite in the current climate to invest in single (inefficient) aircraft and crew bases - especially given the point above

The chances of any sustainable growth in IT services is pretty slim. The best hope is that the continued pressure on the tour operators from the switch into self-packaging / independant holidays is that people start shunning package holdiays from MAN. In my view, it will only be if/when the flow of traffic across the Pennines dries up that we *might* start to see some positive developments. I suspect that things will get worse though, before they get better.

682

[hotline]

Some good points well made 682. I suppose when SunSeeker was around they filled the gap in the market (as Jet2 have done recently in the loco area) by offering holidays to Greece when the big companies wouldn't touch it with a bargepole from LBA. And with the exception of Malta, that's all they did. It's a pity the company failed coz they could have proved a point to the biggies.

However, I do detect a glimmer of change. BY are doing Zakynthos from LBA next summer instead of Ibiza and I guess the Corfu will be back. It also looks as though BY will base an aircraft at LBA this winter for the first time in about four years. A shuffle in the right direction then, but from small acorns... ;)

[HOODED]

Perhaps the rumour that Jet2 may be in the market for some 734s may fill the gap for the non IT holidaymakers. TFS, CFU etc will then be within their reach. Jet2 don't seem afraid to make a go of it from LBA and it's here I see the Greek routes being filled if the traditional IT operators don't get their fingers out!

[bmifox]

If Jet2 started a TFS service daily out of LBA this Winter they would make a packet on it! We (bmi) started TFS and TFN daily out of LHR last Winter and from day 1 they were full. As a northern lad based at LHR pax used to pick up on my accent and on the dozen or so flights i did a few of the pax were from Yorkshire! They wanted to fly to Tenerife on Mondays, Thursday...not just on the normal Tenerife days of Friday and Tuesday! This means getting down to Heathrow just to get our flight. I'm sure a daily TFS and maybe a LCA/PFO lo-cost run would be a great addition to their network.
Another thing that winds me up is why LBA lost their YYZ service! I know it was only a 757 via BHX but it was still transatlantic. I think EXT still have their Air Transat weekly flight and even ABZ had one once! It makes you think what the LBA marketing team actulally do up there.....appart from blowing up balloons for the new charter check-in desks!!!

I\'ve just looked at the last 5 stories on the LBA website to try and find out about the THE 1 NEW charter destination next summer to Zante. All marketing can tell us about are the new check-in desks ( which from looking at the departure boards on the website only BY and MYT use!) and Jet2 stories. Is Zante been advertised up there guys??? If not it surely won\'t be too long before Thomson cancell it and send pax over the Pennines to start their hols.

[LBA]

Well apparantly, TFS was the only route Planetair did well on last year, with a A321 of Spanair in winter and LTE in summer. Apparantly the bookings on the Lanzarote were also very strong before they went bust as well.

Lets hope Jet2 start it!

[bmifox]

The problem with charters out of LBA is that there is no choice! It's fine if you want to go to Mallorca or Tenerife but anywhere else forget it! They say they can't fill aircraft out of LBA...well contract smaller aircraft then!!! It's good to see some holidays companies using a bit of initiative for a change. For example todays flights to PSA and INN. The PSA flight today had 37pax out and 37 pax in, which is perfect for an EMB-145 and the INN has 21 pax out and 48 in (reason for low outbound load is because this flight is the last of the season ....in mid July!!!!) again which is perfect for a CRJ, but uneconomical for a 757/737. Why don't Thomson/Mytravel try flights to PFO/MIR/RHO/KGS/HER/EFL/NAP/FNC/BJV but use a 737 instead! Astraeus are perfect for this with their 737-700's which have the range and performance to do this. Then at least LBA will have a choice of holiday destinations and not just PALMA!!!
P.S. it looks like LBA will have NO flights to LPA or FUE this winter.Can't find them anywhere on the Mytravel website! The friday TFS and seasonal Saturday ALC are also showing that thses are on non based aircraft ie landing LBA mid afternoon then returning back to where they have just come from.

[LBA]

Well, MyTravel now have a summer base only at LBA so no surprise about it not been a based a/c. Would be quite surprised if no LPA or FUE, on the upside, a BY based a/c this winter operating the likes of ALC, ACE and AGP.

According to the LBIA website, we still have a Monday Las Palmas,and the Wednesday FUE.

And next summer TFS operated by Based BY a/c as opposed to AEA a/c, and an extra flight for 1st choice, and of course Zante. Not all bad news.

[bmifox]

LBA
Just had a look on the LBIA website and it still says LPA/FUE flights this winter but try the Mytravel site and try booking a flight there this winter!!! I think they have been dropped.
Has anyone tried Croatia from LBA in recent years? When i was a lad (God here i go...) i can remember 4 flights a week to Yugoslavia. 1 was a JAT 707 ( or was it a 727...or both) to Pula i think? also flights to Ljubljana, Dubrovnik and Split. If we can have 2 flights a week to Bulgaria surley some one could have a weekly Dubrovnik! Also Ski charters, i'm sure LBA used to have 4 a week at one point SZG/LYS on BY 757's INN on UKL 734's GVA on BA 1-11. Now we have 2 charters to INN/CMF. plus Jet2's new 8 a week to GVA! which is excellent news if you want to go to Switzerland or the French Alps. If you want the Pyrenees/ Italian Alps/Eastern Austria well yet again it's Manchester here i come! Then again if you want Bulgarian ski slops this winter then you can fly from Manchester or beleive it or not HUMBERSIDE!!! Yes believe it or not HUY this winter have a weekly Plovdiv charter.
Again operators will say we can't fill A320/757 from LBA. Well bmi regional will have a couple of EMB's and Fokkers sat on the ground for all of Saturday and Sunday mornings! I'm sure a 49 seat EMB to TLS/SZG/TRN could go full (Don't know how you get your own ski's on a EMB though!...roof rack maybe)

[bmifox]

Are BY still doing some charters to BGI next winter?

[LBA]

Yes Britannia are with a 767. Apparantly the 1st one was really overbooked so they are doing a second one.
The 1st flight departs on the 25th of January 2005 returning 04th of February. The 2nd flight departs 18th February 2005 returning 05 March. Hope that helps.

[bmifox]

Which holiday company are the flights for?

[LBAir]

In the days of Sunseekers Leisure, when flights operated to Zakynthos, Heraklion, Corfu, Rhodes, Paphos, Larnaca and Malta among others. I remember nearly all their flights were operating full from Leeds. An insider at the time had said to me that services operating at Manchester were not doing very well. Without a doubt this brought on the demise of the company.

A full IT program incoperating a full range of Greece services is long overdue at LBA, if the likes of TUI, MyTravel First Chice don't wake up, it'll only be a matter of time bofore JET2 or another NEWBOY realise LBA's potential in this area.

When will the tour companies realise that people want to fly from their local airport, an area that EASYJET, RYANAIR, BMIBABY and JET2 are all exploiting around the country?

from YORKSHIRE:ok: the place to be is the city of Leeds.

[bmifox]

Why did Sunseekers go bust! As a family we went to Rhodes with them on their in house airline...was it called Sunjet? 737-300 ex BA colours seem to remember. Really good holiday with them!

[hotline]

bmifox,

Hmm, looks as though I've started something here ! I don't know what became of SunSeeker. What I do remember is the 1994 programme operating for what seemed like only a few days with TransLift A320s and the LBA Tower Controller saying goodnight and goodbye to this aircraft on what was to be its last departure from LBA


Perhaps they just tried to expand too quickly. The 1993 season was a success with a 148-seater 737 (it was ex-Dan Air, taken on by BA, leased to Air Foyle and operated by ex-Dan Air crews I think). The next season they added another 32 seats with the introduction of the A320. Who knows what TransLift's fees were
compared to Air Foyle ??? Maybe too much too early when some consolidation was needed in a relatively new market. Even so, full marks for trying, especially when you consider this woz the days before 24 hour availability at LBA.

I went to Ljubljana a couple of times myself, on a JAT 727 (great) and the following year on a clapped out Adria/Tarom Rombac
1-11 (awful). That JAT 707 was a beast was it not ! I digress.
Yes, I feel sure that Slovenia and Croatia could comfortably make a welcome return to the LBA summer programme. Ljubljana, Split, Dubrovnik and Pula were all popular spots in the old days and I believe they've recovered most of their former glory. The likes of Adria and Croatian Airlines may not have sufficient aircraft but I expect companies such as Astraeus and Jet2 could oblige for the right price. Wake me up when it (and Greece) happens.


:{ :zzz:

[MerchantVenturer]

Mooncrest

There is a weekly (Sats) charter flight this summer from Bristol to Split operated by a SN Brussels ARJ 85.

[bmifox]

First Choice Holidays are putting an extra flight on to DLM next Summer from LBA on a Monday morning operated by PGT. Tui will still have the BY to DLM aswell on Mondays and Airtours PGT to DLM on Friday mornings. Looks like Airtours are doing some swapping around aswell... Their Saturday flight to PMI is now operating on a non based MYT. Lands LBA at 1410-Depts LBA at 1535. Airtours have stopped selling LCA on a Sunday aswell but strangely it looks like TUI have taken over this flight as they are now selling flights to LCA but using MYT aircraft!

[Going loco]

If I’m interpreting the CAA passenger data correctly, both Humberside and Exeter carry more tour operator passengers to Turkey than LBA. Humberside, Exeter, Bournemouth, Norwich and Teesside all carry more passengers to Cyprus. At the end of the day – that’s just not good enough.

It seems to me that Leeds has got too many people on board who pussyfoot around Manchester with statements like “we’re complimentary to MAN, not a competitor” which frankly I find amazing. For a start, its hundreds of thousands of passengers every month traipse over the M62 from right under LBA’s nose. If that’s not competition, tell me what is? Secondly, the people at Manchester don’t exactly reciprocate the arrangement by steering clear of the Leeds catchment area. I remember last year there was a massive leaflet drop, billboards and press campaign in and around Leeds by MAN for their routes. Until the airport gets people who are up for the fight with MAN, the Tour Operator side of LBAs business will disappear into nothing much at all.

loco

[LBAir]

Well said going loco,

The fact is that most, if not all of the people who work or have worked in LBA marketing, only have a travel shop background. LBA needs people with a lot more ambition, more get up and go!
All they seem to do is visit the Yorkshire Show once a year. The LBAir Magazine hardly even advertize airlines or tour companies, just 'curry restaurants' and 'chippies'. Every passenger has the chance to pick up a coppy and yet they don't capitolize on this, what a mistake. The passengers are out there, most people I know who want to fly from Leeds, simply say that they just couldn't get a flight from Leeds.

LBA needs to spread its wings!!

[nibor]

I agree with you completely going loco.

I am often asked by friends, family and neighbours why all the holiday flights from LBA are booked up. There can only be one answer and that is that demand far outweighs supply in this area. I am sure that if tour operators added some of the more popular destinations to their portfolio from LBA they would fill them.
My guess is that the tour operators do not wish to add flights from LBA as they know that the Yorkshire holiday makers will travel to MAN if they can't get what they want from LBA.
What is needed is a tour operator that does not offer many routes from MAN to start a charter programme at LBA and they would make a killing.

As for the marketing department..................
I do not pretend to know what they are actually meant to do, but it would appear that most of the readers of this forum would do better given the job.
My suggestion is get rid of all but one (hopefully one knows what they are doing) and use the money saved to get 3 billboards on the M62.
The first on should say

ARE YOU ENJOYING YOUR DRIVE TO MANCHESTER AIRPORT TODAY ?

The second, should be positioned just before the Trafford Centre and should say,

ARE YOU TIRED OF THIS QUEUE ?

And the third should say

JUST THINK,
IF YOU HAD BEEN FLYING FROM LEEDS/BRADFORD YOU WOULD BE IN THE BAR BY NOW !
LEEDS/BRADFORD INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT IS YORKSHIRES OWN AIRPORT. use it or lose it.


I bet you would get more bums on seats for your marketing budget that they do now.

[bmifox]

Well said guys!!!
Im cabin crew for bmi based at LHR and i'm sure i know more of what's going on at LBA than those muppets in the marketing dept! I've posted a few things on here over the last few months about upcoming charters from LBA. Transuns winter day trips of which there are 19 now on sale! The LBIA website tell us there are only 3!!! The Thomson S

Summer charter to INN which is in their 2nd edition brochures and running from May- Sep next year is not even down on the website! LPA and FUE have gone for the winter but not according to the marketing team :ugh:
I really don\'t think they knoe their arse from their elbows!!!

Gordon Dennison...now thats a name from the past! So he\'s not EA greatest fan then??? What a surprise.
Does anyone know how many plods work in the marketing dept and what their salaries are???

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

"Does anyone know how many plods work in the marketing dept "

...none of them by the look of things!!

[bmifox]

Sorry ...the INN charter is for Inghams not Thomson! I had a TIY moment there! not having a clue what i was on about:confused:

Frankfurt Cowboy
Good one mate! It\'s sad but true. As nibor said we could all do a much better job at promoting LBA because we all have a passion about the place (well i do anyway) If Jet2 wasn\'t around the airport would surely have seen a drop in pax numbers this year, and for next summer we are already many charters down on this summer. With Finningley fast approaching with a nice list of charters i fear that in 2-3 years we will have a dozen charters a week ( 10 to PMI and 2 to JER ). So come on marketing team, go out and get First Choice or Thomas Cook in with 15-20 flights a week with a based A320. Offer them free car parking...i think this worked really well at Bristol a good few years ago.
Another thing about LBA is the new hotel! Travelodge??? 48 rooms??? is that it? you can\'t even get a meal in a Travelodge that size! Well you can always used the Burger King in the Terminal cos that\'s open 24hours...right!!!;)

[Caslance]

If the airlines/IT operators thought they'd make more money flying from LBA than from MAN then they would fly from LBA.

In the main, they fly from MAN because they make more money doing that.

Apart from MyTravel.

That's the bottom line, really.

[POL1W]

Nobody with any ounce of aviation background works there. Mostly ex secretaries, people from other industries, probably make a good cup of tea, but no one with any commercial agression towards capturing the market share for LBA. As going Loco said, all we hear from management is that LBA compliments MAN not competes with it. Thank goodness for Jet 2! At least they are pulling 85000+ pax a month (and rising) from lo-cost flights from other airports, and putting them out from Leeds.
Just look at the selection of flights from Newcastle, the number of pax using Newcastle, then look at the size of Newcastle/Sunderland to West Yorkshire. LBA should have a useage of between 5 to 7 milliom pax, not 2 and half million.

All this boils down to the airports owners, the head in the sand, left wing majority councils and councillors. Yep, they are always behind any scheme to hinder a potentially good thing. Do they know how to run an airport ? No. They can't can't get the surface transport right. They procrastinated on the supertram, so the cost went up four fold. The roads are in a state. There's too many bus lanes, speed humps. Not enough police on the streets, so why should they know how to run an airport, when they excel at getting everything else wrong. They appoint the senior managers who come from either outside of aviation, or are ones that other airports were probably glad to be rid of. They in turn appoint the marketing positions with those we have today. If you want a party, they're great at blowing up balloons and organising a jazz band.
Not good enough LBA. You are under performing big style at this place. We, (all the commercial customers) are trying to make a go of this airport, but continually find you working against us. Be proactive for once. Come on Airport Board. Approve an extension to the apron and the terminal to the east. Put some concrete down at the ends for a RESA. Put a CAT II ILS in on 14. I do not like doing CATIIIs on 32 with a tail wind! Spend some of the big city's money on a valuable asset that benefits all of West Yorkshire, instead of wasting it on countless ethnic junkie drop in centres and underage mothers contraception advise clinics, and other no hopers ventures.
Going back to the original thread of "Greek Summer Program from Leeds"
I was told by a colleague at LBA, that at a management Q & A session in which the Q arose - Why are there no flights to Greece?... The answer from the MD was that West Yorkshire people did'nt go to Greece ! Ha :D
I'd better cancel my hols to Rhodes first thing tomorrow ! (from NEMA by the way)

[PTH needs tarmac]

Many of us have bemoaned the low volume and poor quality of advertising by LBIA over many years. The LBIA Marketing department only consists of 3-4 people I believe with little or no airport/aviation marketing background. However, they do seem to be good at putting out Press Releases when someone new comes in to head the group, which of late seems to be every 12-18 months. That suggests most people there view it as just a stepping stone to something else.

It was always galling to drive through Bradford passing half a dozen Easyjet billboards (carefully omitting that a drive to LPL is required to collect the headline 9 quid fare) and see not one single advert for LBA.

Bmifox – not a criticism of yourself of course, but bmi have in the past not done much to help either, with little local advertising. I’m not in the area currently so perhaps bmi are being more proactive these days with their LBA routes. How much advertising for the LCY route has there been?

POL1W – On the local political front there may be a clink of light. Labour now only controls 1 of the 5 councils (Wakefield) that own LBIA. Both Leeds and Bradford have Conservative/Liberal coalitions in control. Last year a Conservative councilor from Leeds put down a motion to hold a feasibility study for privatizing LBIA. It was of course shot down by the then Lab majority. Whether as the two majority owners, Leeds and Bradford councils, might try again I have no idea.

PTH

[bmifox]

Morning PTH,
No offence taken matey! When bmi announced the new LBA-LCY service it was on the local news here in London and in a few local papers. I know on board we as cabin crew will make PA's about the new route nearer the time on all the flights that run out of LBA and LHR domestic flights. What i would like to see is a big billboard placed at Leeds City Station and Kings Cross by bmi and LBA about the new route and maybe the odd advert in the Yorkshire Post, FT etc near the time. I think the new service will be popular. I was at LCY 2 weeks ago flying out to JER for the weekend and watched the VLM to MAN and LPL both board. 40+ pax on both flights and this was mid afternoon!
I think the marketing teams (both bmi and LBIA) must target people who use GNER the most for these new flights.After all the trains biggest selling point is that it goes into the centre of London. The DLR expansion at LCY is well underway now with trains that will take you into Docklands and London in a matter of minutes.

[wawkrk]

The criticism of the LBA management and marketing team is spot on.The airport still has an image like Leeds Parish Airport with a lets have jumble sale mentality from the maketing team and with recent news headlines like "passenger joy".
I heard a story a while back where one of the eeh by gum numpty councillors was dispatched on the flight to Glasgow to present an award.But,he forget to take the award with him so the staff had to rush it there by taxi several hours late.
I just wish that some of the excellent postings on prune could be seen by the right people.

wawkrk

[bmifox]

MMMmmmmmmmmmmm now thats a good idea!
Who would be intrested though?

I think the local press would have to be involved! I remember the Yorkshire Evening Post totally backing the Airport and anyone who supported the airport in it\'s fight for 24 hour flying. I wonder what they would think if they found out what people who work at the airport actually think about the way things run up there and what is and is NOT been achieved!

[Mooncrest]

Blimey jings ! Isn't it incredible how these threads pan out over a few weeks ? Hotline started it off wondering why there were hardly any Greece flights from LBA. It developed a former Yugoslavia sideline and now the marketing department is taking a bashing from just about everyone on PPRUNE who takes an interest in LBA. Having said that I'm not sure we've heard from our old friend Tommyinyork on this one. No doubt he'll be throwing in his twopenn'orth before long, to the chagrin of one or two folks !

Still, got to agree with just about everything being said about LBA marketing. It just ain't happening. Either they're just not trying, or they are and having no success and b*****ing off elsewhere. Might explain the high staff turnover. Must have been at least three or four heads of marketing in the last ten years. Get off yer backsides guys and gals and sell, sell, sell !
We've got Jet2 and that's grand. Now let's get Greece, Germany,
Scandinavia, Croatia and Slovenia, with a liberal dose of First Choice and Thomas Cook and more commitment from TUI. Please.

[Going loco]

Crikey, not often you get a consensus of opinion like this. The fact that so many people share the same view their ability (or lack of it) says it all really.

I don’t actually think there is a Head of Marketing as such now. Philip Firth was replaced by Kate O’Hara and when she left they decided not to get a replacement in because it would save a bit of money. Instead, EA decided to combine the marketing role with his Chief Exec role and that’s the way its been now for a few years.

To me that really says it all about the mentality of the management and council owners. ££££ can be spent on a check-in hall that only serves two airlines - soon to be one – but a couple of hundred grand can’t be invested in recruiting and paying a high-flying marketing / business development director. And why are the local councils happily taking £££ in the form of a share of the airports annual profits when at the same time the management are saying they can’t afford a marketing director. There was me thinking that the role of a publicly owned airport to provide as many routes for local people to use as possible. Obviously not, it’s to make as much money as possible and if that means local holidaymakers and business travellers have to spend time and money buggering about getting to MAN and back, then so be it. If the council and EA were really serious about attracting more routes to the airport they should employ a headhunting firm to pick out some big names from the airport / airline industry and then make them a ££££ offer they can’t refuse to bring their knowledge and contacts up to Leeds.

Don’t know about GD, but I’d love to see Bill Savage back at the place. In 1998, when the airport was half the size and still with the hours restriction, he managed to get Wardair to run a weekly 747 service to YYZ. I think he also got Thomson to base a 737 over the winter and in his second spell got the CATIII up and running and got a decent summer programme from Airtours and Thomson. I think he invested in free transport to and from the airport for all Airtours customers in their first year to get them up and running. With good ideas like that, no wonder he was head hunted by MAN to join their route development team in the about 1997. Funny that, isn’t it? Bring a route development manager at MAN is seen as a better job (and better paid) than CEO at Leeds.

Wawkrk / bmi - Not hard to get people seeing this thread. Just paste the link form the address bar into an e-mail to [email protected] and [email protected] (airport chairman). The one advantage of the airport still being public is that those of you who are council tax payers up in WY have a right to get answers to these questions.

loco

[MerchantVenturer]

Offer them free car parking...i think this worked really well at Bristol a good few years ago.
bmifox

No, Bristol never offered free car parking - individual tour operators/travel agents may have done so as part of an inducement to sell their holidays. In fact, until the last year their car parking was amongst the most expensive in the country. They have now reduced the cost if you pre-book, partly in response to a myriad of unofficial car parks that set up in the area.

The thing that pushed BRS forward more than anything IMO was the local authority selling the airport, first partially (51%) to First Group plc in 1997, then entirely in 2001 - it is now owned by the Australian Macquarie Bank and Cintra which is part of the Spanish Ferrovia group.

This gave Bristol the finance to build a new terminal, control tower and other improvements. Furthermore, it gave airlines confidence in the future of the airport and Go set up its second base there in the face of massive competition from other airports in the UK and in Europe.

BRS will carry 4.5 million pax this year. LBA should be doing at least as well, probably better.

I don't believe local authorities should be running airports, and I suspect LBA will not realise its full potential until it is sold into the private sector.

[bmifox]

MerchantVenturer,
I apologize for saying BRS had free car parking. My sourse for this came from a book published in 1993 by Austin J Brown on UK airports who states that BRS offered free car parking in the early 90's!
I agree totally with you that LBA should be in the 4-5 million pax range now with the same network of flights you enjoy at BRS! I think BRS will have 8-10 ski charters this winter comparred to LBA's 2. Plus it's first Charters to Egypt and again to The Gambia.
I see that Easyjet have just announced Madrid from BRS aswell!

[LBA]

Totally agree with everything said in this thread, especially love the ideas of the billboards on the M62.

The thing that annoys me, brand new check in area just opened, as far as I can see 1 maybe 2 airlines use it, and only a Thomson desk in there. Why? Why not transfer more flights into there? Surely would be a good idea to get BMi in there with the business flights?

[bmifox]

Oh Hello...a rumble in the castle i think!!!
The Winter flights to LPA and FUE have JUST been taken off the LBIA website( Well Airtours did stop selling them 6 weeks ago). Still no word about the First Choice Holidays extra flight to DLM or the May-Sep INN charter by Inghams. I think someone has stopped blowing up balloons and is now watching this to see what else they can learn about the airport they work for.
I will help them out with the Transun Daytrips. Norway 1st Jan 2005,Florence 17th Jan,Venice 14th Feb,Marrakesh 15th Feb,Rome 24th Apr,Venice 25th Apr,Iceland 27th Apr, Bergen 28th Apr.
If you (LBA marketing team ) need any more help or advice please don't hesitate to get in touch with the dozen or so members of pprune who have been writing in this thread for the past few weeks and we will gladly tell you whats going on at YOUR airport.

LBA,
I heard that the airport is going to start and hire out check-in hall B for Weddings and School disco\'s on a Saturday evening cos nobody uses it then! Fantastic idea...well done.

P.S. For TIY benefit i\'m taking the p***;)

[simonwa]

It does seem as though LBA has spent a lot of money on new facilities but not enough on route development etc. The check-in hall B - was it actually needed???!!! Will it ever get used??!! (what will happen to it at winter?!). Jet 2 should take it over as there own exclusive check-in area (possibly) or do what NCL do, and have all charter airlines checking-in in the new check-in hall.

[LBA]

LOL @ BMI :)

I have sent the following email to the LBA management, not that I am expecting a reply.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am a very keen supporter of your airport (I fly from it regularly, mostly with the fabulous Jet2), but I have concerns about the future.
The charter programme from LBA is simply awful. We have one Greek destination, becoming two next year.Why? The demand is there!
You look at the likes of Teeside, Humberside, they manage to have flights to Bodrum and Paphos yet LBA doesent. Why not have Gerona,Bodrum,Paphos,Antalya,Rhodes,Heraklion,Kos. People want these routes. The winter season this winter is a very sad looking thing. No MyTravel means a signifcant reduction for this winter and next summer. Why not try and attract another airline to take over these flights? First Choice? Thomas Cook? If MyTravel have been operating these flights (With a 757 last year), the demand must be there. People are sick of having to drive to Manchester for a decent range of holidays.
And on the Scheduled front no Scandinavia or Germany is unforgivable. The only people that seemed to be bothered about LBA, are Jet2 and BMi. No one else seems to care. And if this continues how much longer will they keep supporting the airport?
I lookforward to your reply.

[POL1W]

Simonwa...good point , but yes it is. Most mornings the queues in terminal A are appalling. The narrowness of the building does not lend it self to anything other than a Jetstream or fokker 50 for check in. Hall B is superb. I really don't know why Jet 2 don't take B over in its entirety. What an advert for Jet2. Own terminal. Lo-cost pax being treated to so much space and not hearded into cattle pens as at moment. BUT...believe this if you will. There are not enough baggage handlers and security staff to man it full time. Another amazing decission from a failing management team. Let's build a terminal with 16 check ins, but not increase the staff to man it. What a joke.
BTW.... BMIfox. hoping to book terminal B for mine and her indoors silver wedding do next month!

[bmifox]

QUICK,QUICK SOMEONE GET A DOCTOR...IT'S STILL ALIVE!!!
The LBIA website has Just (1715) updated it's website again:oh: with the Daytrips now up to date. I think someone is still alive in the marketing department. We have gone and got ourselves noticed. If anyone lives near LBA can you go up there and put the kettle on for them...they will be knackered after all that typing.

[LBA]

LMAO :)

My god they will be having a nose bleed now! Whats that.... two updates in one day!

[bmifox]

OK Lets see if it works again. Now marketing...listen very carefully, i will say this only once!
1,First Choice Holidays have put on a NEW flight to DLM (that's Dalaman in Turkey) it departs on a Monday morning for the full summer saeson.
2, Inghams are flying to INN (that's Innsbruck in Austria) on Saturdays from May to September. Now on YOUR website you say this is for skiing holidays but the clue here is Summer! It's called Lakes and Mountains in the summer. I will leave it up to you to find out the times etc...well it is your job now isn't it;)

My God it works....1755 local time, INN Summer 2005 details finally go on! Just Dalaman to go...go on you can do it!!!

I can give you a clue if you want???
Flights are operated by Pegasus and they land at LBA at 0930 and depart at 1030 2 May-18 Oct 2005.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Those a little more astute than others will have noticed that their posts are missing! I'll tell you why.

Unless you saw Danny's edict that we would not tolerate hidden swearing ***** etc., then yours is gone. Then, naming actual people is not now acceptable either and your post has gone.

Get the picture? You keep on doing it and we will delete them. If you don't get the message then your PPRuNe health will suffer.

PPP

[bmifox]

Well didn't we have fun today! We got the marketing dept to pull their fingers out for once. It was amazing to watch the LBIA webpage this afternoon and watch them spring into action. About time aswell!

OK...so now the NEW A TEAM know that there are currently no flights to LPA or FUE this Winter! What are they going to do about it??? Well how about approaching TUI who originally where going to fly to LPA on Saturday afternoons. Make a deal with them to reinstate their flights, with no flight supplements. See if they would be willing to share the aircraft with First Choice/Thomas Cook or even Airtours! Then get advertising it!!!

I just can\'t believe that in the year 2004/05 we will have no flights at all to half of the Canary Islands!!!

[bmifox]

Just been looking at the Thomson website for flights from Finningley next Summer. Apart from the dozen or so destinations offered by Thomsonfly.com, Thomson Holidays will offer flights to Corfu, Alicante, Gerona, Malaga x3, Paphos,Las Palmas, Ibiza, Palma x3, Malta, Mahon, Naples, Rhodes, Tenerife, Monastir and Bodrum. Excellent for a launch season. I think some of the above destination may be operated on Thomsonfly aircraft but the point is look at the choice! All of the routes bar one we used to have at LBA. If Summer 2005 goes well at Finningley i think we can kiss goodbye to any chioce out of LBA in the future.

[Danny_R]

Same applies for LPL, no services to Zakinthos, Rhodes, Halkidiki, Kos, Skiathos, Thasos, Kefalonia, Santorini or Mykonos. Only island that appears to be served is Corfu.

Big gap there waiting to be filled!

[MerchantVenturer]

I think BRS will have 8-10 ski charters this winter comparred to LBA's 2.
bmifox,

There have been 14 weekly ski charter flights in each of the last three winters and this coming winter there will be more because Plovdiv and Grenoble have been added. There will also be the daily easyJet flight to Geneva from mid December. This summer, as last, there are over one hundred weekly sun charters at the height of the season.

Now none of this is meant to be rubbing things in. It is just a comparison because I believe that BRS and LBA are alike in so many ways and, from this distance, I am totally at a loss to understand why LBA is not served better - local authority ownership cannot be the whole reason.

Both airports are rather inaccessible; they have short or restricted runways with poor weather records (albeit BRS now has Cat III at one end); they have other regional airports within 50-100 miles and large airports such as MAN and LHR relatively conveniently placed. They both have fairly large catchment areas for regional airports with LBA's being the bigger.

Now you say that Finningley is to start with a large selection of charter flights that are no longer available at LBA.

What do the local media in the Leeds and Bradford area make of all this? Bristol Airport was oftened condemned locally as a nice little airport on the hill with no destinations until a few years ago (a bit unfair because even then there were well over a million people using it each year). Even now you read the odd letter in the press from people moaning because they cannot fly direct to some far-flung place without having to go to Heathrow or Gatwick.

I believe that Jet2 is doing very well and is providing an increasing number of scheduled services at LBA. So is the real problem the lack of charter flights to the sun and ski slopes?

[Mooncrest]

Check-in hall B. This is a bit of a double-edged sword (not sure if that's the right expression but there you go). Speaking from personal experience last summer, this extra facility is definitely needed. When I started my Saturday afternoon shifts last year I
invariably walked into (barely) organised pandemonium. There would be at least two 757 flights checking in, one A320, four 737s and a brace of smaller ERJ145s. That's at least 1000 items of baggage going into a baggage hall not much bigger than a municipal swimming pool and it simply wasn't adequate. I can promise you that at certain times this summer, the new facility has provided invaluable relief. The ridiculous thing, however, is that on Saturday evening when there's only two flights checking in, they're both done in hall B, at the far end of the terminal and check-in hall A and it's associated baggage hall is deserted. See if you can guess the situation on a busy Saturday afternoon this summer.

In short, check-in hall/baggage hall B is needed but it simply isn't being used to its full potential. I expect it's down to staffing. However, I do believe Jet2 have taken another look at the place and are said to be interested in utilising it. I hope they go ahead. It absolutely staggers me that the airport company even contemplates hiring it out for functions and that. This is supposed to be an airport, an important regional airport, for heaven's sake ! Please tell me it's not a wind-up.

I think it's good that marketing may actually be taking notice of the sentiments on this thread. If you're reading this, ladies and gents, you know what to do. ;)

[wawkrk]

I was told by a friend who had a comment from EA regarding Finningley.He and LBA are not at all worried about it,infact, they think it is a bit of a joke.
This was last year,is it still a joke then?
wawkrk

[bmifox]

Mooncrest, it was a joke mate ...sorry! Check-in hall B should have Jet2 in there! They could take up 10 desk with 6 left for BY and MYT. I havn't been up to LBA for a month or 2...is there room for anymore shops in that area? namely Boots which is what is needed now!
Merchant Venturer, 15+ Ski charters a week from BRS this Winter. That must be 10 resort airports in Europe...what a choice!!! LBA has Chambery and Innsbruck again this Winter. I wonder if the ski companies now that during the winter bmi will have 2-3 aircraft sat on the ground all day Saturday and Sunday mornings. Surely if they charter an EMB-145 to do a TLS/TRN/SZG etc etc bmi would jump at the chance of having their planes in the air earning money. LBA marketing could inform Crystal, Thomson ski, Inghams etc that they think a 50 seat aircraft going to these new destinations may well be viable. I bet BRS has flights to LPA and FUE aswell...lucky things! I believe you are getting Aer Lingus back at BRS soon? We lost EI at the same time as you along with NCL i think? FR do upto 3 flights a day to DUB from LBA. T hey also fly from BRS 3 time a day but BRS have managed to win back a 'Quality' airline to the route aswell. Have LBA approched EI about coming back to LBA i wonder??? I doubt it very much...can't go upsetting FR now can you! I've only been to BRS once..WOW what an airport. Nice new terminal buliding, easy check-in and a fantastic range of flights. LBA should be where BRS is now,and with a bit of work and forward planning it could be.
P.S. For the marketing team at LBA well done for all your hard work yesterday updating the website...this is only the start my friends. Don't forget to put the extra Dalaman on there will you on Monday mornings during summer 2005. I'm away now for 2 days of flying. I hope you will be able to cope. I will be back on Saturday but in the meantime if you need to know anything else or if your not sure on anything just pop downstairs and ask a cleaner! I'm sure Iona will help you out with anything you need to know;)
BTW Iona did let me know the full Airtours winter 04/05 schedule so here goes,
Thu- IWD3212 ACE-LBA LANDS 1315 IWD3214 LBA-ACE DEPTS 1415
Fri- MYT354 TFS-LBA LANDS 1630 MYT353 LBA-TFS DEPTS 1755
Sat- JKK3203 ALC-LBA LANDS 1020 JKK3204 LBA-ALC DEPTS 1115
Sun- JKK3205 AGP-LBA LANDS 0915 JKK3206 LBA-AGP DEPTS 1015

[682ft AMSL]

Watched this with interest for a while, so excuse the long reply.

Aa we’ve said before, the IT industry in the North is centred around MAN and the cost efficiencies that result from a single operating base is not something that can be matched through lower airport handling charges. An operator like Thomas Cook pushes the best part of 200,000 passengers per month through MAN in summer and clearly a reasonable slug of this is going to come from around the LBA catchment area. They could move one or two aircraft out of MAN and into Leeds to pick up this demand, but what’s in it for them? The MAN base is reduced in size and therefore is less efficient as a result. The small Leeds base is (as with all small based) relatively inflexible and inefficient which pushes the unit cost per passenger up. And what do they get for all of this extra cost? Probably the same amount of passengers as they had before, just split over two operating bases instead of one? Airports like Cardiff, Bristol, Newcastle have fairly discrete, localised catchment areas and are not within easy reach of major operating bases. Tour Operators are therefore prepared to incur the cost of maintaining a small base in order to protect their market share. Whereas Thomas Cook feel reasonably confident that they will still get business form Yorkshire even it does mean a trek to MAN, they will be less confident about say people from the South West travelling to BHX or LGW. More likely the punter from the South West will think “sod that, I’ll book with First Choice, Thomson or whoever” Without that competitive pressure, places like Leeds, Liverpool and (I believe) Finningley will not make serious inroads into the near 10million IT passengers that MAN gets every year.

This should always be borne in mind when sledging the LBA marketing team and let’s not forget, Jet2 had other choices other than Leeds. Someone somewhere in the LBA hierarchy must have been making the right noises.

That is not to say that they should be without criticism. The website is frequently out of date and the simple process of keeping the ever reducing list of charter flights seems beyond them. Even after yesterday’s changes the remaining My Travel winter programme is still not showing correctly. The LBA team seem completely unable to engage the press or get them interested in airport or route developments. No news yet in the YEP or T&A about the London City service, for example. They do little in the way of route advertising in the way that Manchester does in this region. There biggest failing though has to be their failure to work with Channex to get more charter business. As mentioned above, Thomas Cook/ First Choice aren’t going to move an aircraft out of MAN and into Leeds because its expensive to run a single aircraft base. But in Channex, Leeds now has a seasoned charter operator with a large crew and engineering base and which appears to have plenty of spare capacity to offer (aircraft not yet in service + spare capacity in the Jet2 schedule) . The 737-300s are of a great size for a fairly low risk entry into the Leeds IT market and (I’m assuming) can reach most of the destinations in a typical based programme that are within 1500nm great circle. Compliment this with a few foreign a/c for the Canaries and Cyprus before you know it, a decent sized programme could be established. A switched on marketing team should be able to broker some sort of deal between Channex and the say First Choice and/or Thomas Cook which allowed one of their 737s to be dusted off before Summer 05 and sent up to Leeds for just such a role.

[Danny_R]

Channex are currently planning an expansion that will have them leasing in aircraft, could be that they are planning something in the passenger arena.

[bmifox]

682,
WOW, you obviously DON'T work in the LBA marketing team but what you have just written is exactly what needs to be done. Thankyou. I have printed off a dozen copies of what has been said on here over the last couple of days and am going to post them off to various holiday companies and the Yorkshire Post, Yorkshire Evening Post and the T & A for their views.

[LBA]

Fantastic stuff BMi, lets see what response (If any!) We get.

[onion]

Interesting to see that people from Leeds see the airports marketing department as not performing to what they should be. I on the other hand have to say they are in Teesside and surrounding area are doing well at promoting the airport. For instance in Darlington which should be bmibaby territory there are more advets for Jet2. Ok these are Jet2's adverts but if Jet2 operate similar to Ryanair Leeds will have given Jet2 some money towards these adverts. The other experience of Leeds marketing and probably the most annoying is the way all but the smaller local travel agents push Manchester, Newcastle and Leeds before Teesside. When I live about 15 miles from Teesside and 50 miles from Leeds and even further away from Newcastle and Manchester. Ok I accept there is more holiday traffic from Leeds, Newcastle and Manchester but this situation happens all the time even when flying to the more popular destinations such as Palma.

682 the situation with Manchester/Leeds also happens up here with Newcastle/Teesside and Leeds/Teesside. I booked a holiday the other week out of Teesside and was lucky as there were very few holidays to the destination I wanted out of Teesside. On the other hand had I been prepared to travel there was plenty of choice out of Leeds and Newcastle. People in the Teesside area are often forced to fly out of Leeds, Newcastle and Manchester to popular destinations such as Palma purely and simply because they sell out quickly. Hopefully the added capacity Thomson are promising next year will rectify this and help bring prices down a little.

[bmifox]

AT LAST.... The new DLM charter for Summer 05 finally appeared on the LBIA website late yesterday! 2 days of hints at last paid off.

[Mooncrest]

I'll keep this short coz it's beginning to look like it's all been said now ! The aircraft are out there, the customers are out there, the destinations are out there and the airport is already here. They just need to be brought together.

Wot a thread ! :ok:

[BEST L/CONTROLLER]

Where on the website is the DLM charter??

CHEERS!!!!:ok:

[Going loco]

The Channex thing does sound like a good idea. As this shows

http://www.channel-express.co.uk/passenger/avail.html

Channex are more than happy to put one of their existing Jet2 fleet up for charter so in principle there should be no objection from them. Lots of examples of tour operators chartering aircraft from ‘mainstream’ airlines so should be no problems on that score
For Channex it sounds like a good way of optimising the Leeds base without really having to over-stretch themselves with the Jet2 schedules. I’m sure an extra 737 could fly an intensive schedule for a tour operator(s) without needing much in the way of extra crew or engineering support. That should make the rates quite competitive which might well grab the attention of the tour operators, especially if the airport is prepared to throw a bit of money at it in terms of publicity, car parking offers and the like. The only conflict might be if the tour operator wants to sell a percentage of some flights as seat-only, which for Malaga, Faro etc would bring them into direct competition with Jet2.

Maybe the first port of call should be My Travel. They’re closing their base next summer but will probably want to keep some sort of presence at Leeds. Sounds like a good opportunity for Channex. Or what about Thomas Cook / First Choice. These two do like to share capacity with each other – so what about 737-300 programme in which they take 74 seats each per flight. Can’t believe that would rip the heart out of their MAN schedules and should be a doddle to sell. Or what about these specialist Greek operators that part-base aircraft at Newcastle, Bristol and so on?

To the LBA marketing team – as Mooncrest says all the ingredients are there to see lots of regular EXS prefixes up on the departure boards next year. Make it happen.

Best – the DLM charter is here

http://www.lbia.co.uk/flightinformation_charterflights_turkey.php

[Caslance]

The aircraft are out there, the customers are out there, the destinations are out there and the airport is already here. They just need to be brought together. And the profits? Where do they lie?

At the moment they seem to lie largely in operating from charter airline "hubs" like MAN, LGW and LTN.

This may, and possibly will, change but in these uncertain times airlines and tour operators are unlikely to drop already profitable core business at the "big" airports to take a gamble on new markets elsewhere.

Remember it's a business, chaps, and money doesn't just talk - it bellows at the top of its voice.

[BEST L/CONTROLLER]

Thanks for that I've seen it now, well how about that 3 times a week to DLM things are looking up for LBA by the look of it the MON dep in the eve and rtn next morning looks to be the BY based a/c, as for the earleir one on MON looking at the timings I bet Pegasus or some Turkish airline such as OnurAir will operate that one as for the FRI one I am lead to beleive that that will remain as Pegasus,

Also looking further on that there looks to be a new destination for Greece for Summer 05 Zante or KGS I think from memory is the 3 letter, a few mor Greek destinations please.

CHEERS!!!!!!:ok:

[LBA]

The Monday morning is PGT, the Monday evening is the based Britannia a/c as it has been for a couple of years, and the Friday is also Pegasus.

The new Greek destination is Zante (Going there in 16 days with FCA from... MANCHESTER grrrr), operated by Britannia.

[bmifox]

IS BEST L/CONTROLLER THE NEW TIY???
ZANTE'S 3 LETTER CODE IS KGS!!! THINGS ARE LOOKING UP FOR LBA COS OF AN EXTRA DLM CHARTER!!! A FEW MORE GREEK DESTINATIONS PLEASE!!!
HAVE YOU READ THE LAST 3 PAGES ON THIS THREAD MATE???:confused:

[MerchantVenturer]

I'm a bit confused here.

There appears to be an extra flight to Dalaman next summer and a flight to Zante (ZTH) - is that new?

Where does Kos (KGS) come in? Is that a new destination as well? If so, things might be on the up, at least a little.

[LBA]

The Monday DLM charter is new, as is the ZTH flight.

BLC seemed to think that KGS was the code for ZTH, KGS is not going to be operated from LBA.

[LBAir]

I have read this thread with great interest and what everyone has said makes a great deal of sense.

So the bottom line is that small airports cannot expand their charter markets without the charter airlines incuring greater costs which reduce profitability.

Perhaps what TUI Thomsonfly is doing at Coventry and soon at Doncaster is the way forward. By providing two types of services from smaller bases using equiptment that is alike and is easy to maintain. This can in tern ajust to market flutuations from LOCO to PACKAGE and vice versa.

JET2 would do well to look at such an operation and exploit a massive gap in the market. In the days of Inter European, they operated flights to LCA, PFO and TFS using 737-300 equiptment, so the JET2 fleat would not need too much ajusting to operate such flights.

It is not unreasonable to say that Leeds Bradford could sustain a full IT operation if CHANNEX/JET2 worked in partnership with a tour operator.

So come on JET2 you will sure be onto a winner!!

Leeds Bradford to:
Zakynthos
Rhodes
Heraklion
Kos
Helkadiki
Corfu
Sorrento
Paphos
Larnaca
Izmir

The list is endless, so come on and get your skates on :ok:

[Caslance]

IMHO, LBAir has hit the nail squarely on the head here.

You never know what might develop. Look what Ryanair started out with.

[onion]

LBAir expansion of charter flights at airports like Leeds by current operators actually in theory should reduce costs per flight. The problem being that further expansion is more likely to happen at these smaller airports larger neighbours such as Manchester, which already have the infrastructure in terms of personnel. So reducing the costs of recruitment etc.

Although your idea about a mixed Low Cost/IT service is spot on and especially regarding Jet2 as they have a good name for themselves at Leeds and would probably do well on a service like this.

[LGS6753]

In the days of GO, seats were sold to tour operators, and GO flights featured in a number of brochures, mainly City Breaks. Seems like a good idea for a small loco like Jet2, but I can't see the likes of EZY and FR distorting their yield management systems to offer such a service.

[BEST L/CONTROLLER]

I take that as a bit of a sarcastic coment your making, also don't you dare compare me with Tommyinyork.

I'm sorry for the wrong 3 letter code I will have to be shot won't I !!!:mad:
if you read it, it said I wasn't sure of the 3 letter???

regarding the ZTH flts I must have not read it earlier if it's up.

But never mind, they say London makes you the way youuuuuu are!!

CHEERS!!!!!!:ok: :mad:

[bmifox]

Sorry BEST...I only wish LBA had flights to KGS(Kos);)
BTW you are nowhere near the same league as TIY. NOBODY IS...

[BEST L/CONTROLLER]

Roger that!!!!!!

CHEERS!!!!!!!:ok:

No probs

[bmifox]

This is looking really bad for next year! Airtours have pulled the following flights for Summer 2005.
Sun-LCA, Tue-TFS, Sat-FAO,Sat-PMI X1,
Charters for 2005 are going to be well down on this summer.

[nibor]

With the charter programme shrinking this quickly things are starting to look bad.
I hope that the people at the top are busy sending envoys around the tour operator network to try and scavenge a couple of routes for S06 or there will be an advert for a 'nearly new tent' on ebay this winter.

As both BY and MYT are basically pulling out of LBA there will be a large gap in the airport accounts soon. Low cost airlines may pull in the passengers but they don't pay much to the airports. It is the charter and full service scheduled carriers that pay the bills.

Let's hope that now the marketing department have come out of hibernation they are refreshed and ready for war.


p.s. Where is our little Jorvik based friend with his 2p's worth ???

[LBA]

You can book Thomson Holidays on a MyTravel Sunday flight though.

When did MYT/Airtours ever operate to FAO on a Saturday?

[bmifox]

The Saturday FAO charter was shared between Style Holidays and Direct Holidays which is part of the Airtours family! This summer the flights are operated by Air Malta! Now Direct are just offering seats on the MYT Thursday morning FAO flight.
As you say Thomson are now offering seats on the MYT to LCA...very strange!

[LBA]

Stupid me! I thought you meant MyTravel Airways!

That Thomson one is strange, because according to the timings, it is operated by a based MyTravel a/c the same times as last year. Maybe a Spanair will be drafted in before then?

Have forgotten to post this, the reply I got from LBA from the email I sent them:

Thank you for your recent e-mail regarding services from Leeds Bradford
International Airport.

I would firstly like to thank you for your support of the airport and for
taking the time to get in touch with us with your comments and feedback as
this is of paramount importance to us.

We are constantly striving to improve the facilities and services at the
airport and there are many different factors that contribute to the number
of flights and destinations available. One of the major factors at the
moment that is affecting the choice and number of flights is the state of
the market and the current climate in the travel and aviation industry
where most tour operators are playing it safe. MyTravel in particular are
pulling capacity from their programme across the country and unfortunately
because of this Leeds Bradford has been effected.

With regard to Greek flights, Thomson are the number one tour operator in
Zante and therefore were not concerned about adding a flight from Leeds
Bradford for next summer as they have the confidence that they will be able
to run the route profitably. Unfortunately, Mytravel struggle with Greece
and they are not willing to take the risk of adding new destinations when
they are having to cut capacity.
To make a Greece flight work we require three out of the top four tour
operators, i.e Thomson, Mytravel, First Choice and Thomas Cook, to commit
to it and this can be a complex and lengthy project, especially in the
current climate.

We have had increases in capacity with Thomson, First Choice and Thomas
Cook over the last two years and the Marketing and Business Development
Manger at the airport, Sally Ramsey is in continuous contact with airlines
and tour operators to continue these increases.

Once again, I would like to thank you for your continued support and if you
require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact me.

[LBAir]

The use of a 737-300 aircraft on flights to Greece would not be a burden on a large IT company. 149 passengers instead of 235 on a 757-200. Most IT companies operate A320, A321, 757, 767 aircraft, all of which would require a large camitment to LBA, however, the previously talked about use of the CHANNEX/JET2 aircraft would solve this problem.

A combination of the right sized aircraft with LBA based equiptment would make it a worthy and cost effective investment. If CHANNEX didn't want to use a JET2 aircraft to protect their product, they could just paint the aircraft in sasy TUI or First Choice logos.

With the use of say, 737-300 this would also allow for additional frequency to the most popular routes. At the same time the 737-300 aircraft allows flights to less popular destinations, knowing the flights only require 149 and not 235 passengers.

from YORKSHIRE:ok: the place to be is the city of Leeds.

[bmifox]

LBA,
Well at least they responded to you!!! I'm still waiting for mine.I hear there was an emergency board meeting at LBA to discuss the current situation in the marketing dept. Not happy bunnies at all up in the castle:uhoh: Apparently they are not happy with us ppruners who know more about whats going on at LBA than the people who are paid 20k a year to tell US about OUR local airport...after all it is council run and we all pay our rates don't we! Even after all the fun i had with the marketing dept last Thursday the website is STILL out of date or showing wrong information! Today they updated the charter site to show NO flights at all to LPA or LCA next summer! When TUI are clearly STILL selling holidays to these 2 holiday spots...thank God! I have also put full details of the Airtours Winter 04/05 programme on here, even with the flight numbers and still no change on the website...WHY? Don't you believe me? Well take a look at the Airtours website...PLEASE!
How many people live in West Yorkshire alone? 3-4 million? and you are telling us that during the course of a 26 week summer season at LBA,3848 pax (148 x 26) won't travel to Greece because Yorkshire people don't go to Greece! Well i'm from Yorkshire and in the past i have flown from MAN to Kos x3, Crete, Santorini and Athens! I flew to Rhodes many years ago with Sunseekers on a full 737...so where did all these people come from...Devon? People will travel from LBA if they know that flights to Greece operate from there! which is where marketing come in. Clearly they need a kick up the rear and i hope they are going to get one this week.I and the dozen or so other ppruners on here have shown over the last week that the current team up there are not up to the job at all.
ALL CHANGE PLEASE!

[LBA]

Exactly right BMI.

I have travelled with Britannia to Corfu from LBA for the last 3 years, and every flight has been jam packed full (Two on a B737-800 and one on a 757. Heck they have been using a 767 on these flights for part of the year!). I am having to trail across to MAN next Sunday to fly with First Choice to Zante.
Im really glad that Britannia are flying to ZTH next year, but that isnt much.

As LBAir said, surely if the touroperators utilised a EXS 733 to the places they thought were more risky from LBA (Such as RHO,HER,KGS), then they could try that out that out 1st, if demand exceeded capacity surely they could put one of their own A320/321/757 on the route the year after. How can they say they are no flights to LPA and LCA next summer when TUi are selling holidays there? Lets not hope they make all their pax fly from MAN nearer the time and cancel the LBA flights. If this happened it would be their own fault with absolutely no marketing and it even deleted from their own website. How are people supposed to find out about it?

[POL1W]

This is a common trick played by the major tour operators, and some of the smaller ones too.
If a flight is under performing at MAN by one Tour Op because of over capacity at that airport, they will bin the Leeds, Liverpool flights and force the pax who booked LBA and LPL in good faith to use MAN. A disgusting tactic, especially as it is often done at such a late stage leaving the poor punter no option to book another hoiliday from thgeir desired airport, as all full up.
I have known flights that were 75% sold for the season axed from LBA and given MAN as alternative, and actually told a bold lie that the LBA flights had not sold, when all they were doing was bolstering and protecting MAN flights.
That should be addressed by LBA marketing, if not the MD himself.

[bmifox]

Ppruners...if you work at LBA don't send any messages to this website from a computer at the airport! They are been monitored by the management up there...be careful.
They are furious that LBA employees dare to have an opinion on whats happening at their workplace.
If anyone wants to contact me about this thread please do so at [email protected]

[Mooncrest]

I think it's been mentioned before that the existing Jet2 fleet is a little range limited on account of the variant of CFM56 fitted and so probably couldn't make Greece or Cyprus without a tech stop.
Assuming it's feasible to modify the engines to reduce fuel burn and give more range then Greece and Cyprus could well feature in the grand plan. However, I expect it would be quite costly, especially when you add the costs of launching a Greek flying programme. This is Yorkshire though where you don't get owt for nowt ! Winter would be a good time to do the mods when fleet utilisation is reduced. Send 'em down to ATC Lasham or get the boys at LBA to do it a Multiflight's hangars and let the good times roll !

On the other hand, Dart Group could look out for later versions of the 737-300 which are already range-capable.

I hope the powers that be at LBA aren't getting their knickers in too much of a twist over this thread (and any others that they consider to be relevant). This is after all a discussion forum where opinions are shared and questions asked, some sensible and some less so. Speaking of which, where's TIY these days ?

;)

No offence Tommy ! You just seem to have gone very quiet recently. Perhaps you\'re away on holiday (if so, lucky you).:cool:

[LBAir]

BMIFOX It is common practice for COUNCILs to monitor the use of their site equiptment. I am operating from my home computer and in my own time. I have always had a passion for what happens at OUR local airport. The one we all pay our TAXES for, as pointed out.

Do the airport management actually read anything on this site anyway? Are they actively trying to seek out who we are? Perhaps us PPRuNers have actually booted them up the rear!!
What they must realize is that if this is what we're saying, what are the jo public thinking?

So LBA management if you are listening.......

To the board and management - WHAT NEXT?

Get a new Marketing Executive (PREF someone with proven ability!) Organize a stratigic plan to attract new IT business
(This may include reductions in charges...you have no option!! Yes, you managed to attract MYTRAVEL in the first place, but why is the LBA base one of the first to go? Base too expensive perhaps, why?)

Get involved with airlines that are commited to Leeds and halp them sell their product. Someone mentioned the Manchester adds. They pushed sales for all their companies and tour operators. Stop pushing curry restaurants in your Airmail Mag and sell Airlines! Leeds City Council is keen to have GATEWAY building prodjects to push the city such as Bridgewater Place what about GATEWAY adds to push the airport.

Parts of the terminal look appalling, the main check-in needs to be sorted out, its too dark, no air conditioning that works, monitors that are broken, flooring bubbling up, a revolving door that hardly ever works. After check-in you walk down a dying retail walkway. Passengers comments are "where are the shops" and "are we going the right way, isn't this the exit" Yes, this does involve spending some money, but if you're going to attract new business it must be done.

The posts in this thread have often been harsh words said, but we all want what is best for our airport, our place of work.

from YORKSHIRE:ok: the place to be is the city of Leeds.

[KAT TOO]

Have you noticed how slow LBIA have been to put their July PAX figures on the website...still not there!!

Perhaps they don't make good reading, with donny soon to start LBA management must be getting a bit nervous about Summer 05 certainly where the big IT operator will be going, one only has to look at this weeks weather when RVR have been below CAT 1 and the tail wind on 32 greater than ten knots, it just hassel and the knock on delays and cost for a diversion is too much for most to bear. Jet2 have had a very good year but the airport want it all and whilst jet2 is good for filling carparks, its meant to be an airport they are running not NCP.

Jet2 are asking and getting looked after very well by the airport and ground staff, but bmi and others are suffering as a result, the airport is very concerned at becoming to dependant on JET2 and a desperate for another low cost airline to come in.

Only last week a team in bmibaby logo-ed HI VIS jackets were seen looking at offices airsde, the JET2 crew walking down the ramp nealry fell over the red & white plastic bricks near stand 3.

I understand that Paris isn't selling that well despite buying every hoarding in Yorkshire ! mind you bmi aren't pulling up trees on that route either, must be our love of the French

LEEDS BRADFORD EGNM 110919Z 111019 VRB05KT 0600 FG BKN004 BECMG 1013 6000 SCT015 SCT040 PROB30 TEMPO 1419 4000 SHRA TSRA BKN018CB

LEEMING EGXE 111054Z 111221 22005KT 9999 FEW022 PROB40 TEMPO 1221 5000 SHRA SCT020CB

LIVERPOOL EGGP 110919Z 111019 14006KT 7000 SCT030 PROB30 TEMPO 1319 5000 SHRA TSRA BKN025CB

MANCHESTER EGCC 110919Z 111019 16005KT 9999 SCT030 PROB30 TEMPO 1319 5000 SHRA TSRA BKN020CB


If you were running an airline, you\'d have em drive over the 62 in their time and expense rather than risk buses back and forth.

Come on LBA management stop putting up fancy planters and bus shelters that nobody uses.......up grade the 14 ILS and lets have another 300m on the concrete

[LBAir]

Keep it coming PPRuNers........well said KAT TOO

.........another plant basket put up today,
.........another bucket put under another leak,
.........another 3 months to finish an 8m holiday desk in hall B

still no responce from the board!

Whilst this thread was based on Greek holiday destinations, it has highlighted the fundermental issues that must be addressed if the airport is to continue to succeed.

We cannot by anyway suggest that the airport has not been successful over previous years. If the airport is to continue to expand and develop services to more destionations, it must react proactively.

JET2 has shown that LBA can be made a success and good on them, but I do agree with KAT TOO that the ball must keep rolling and another LOCO would do well at Leeds too. Ultimately the companies that will suffer will eventually be the IT companies if they don't arrive at Leeds soon with a proper programme the LOCOs will continue to take a sizable amount of their business from Manchester.

JET2 have exploited the ITs lack of ability to serve the people of West Yorkshire and I am sure they will continue to do so. Dispite all I have said I am sure that within the next couple of years, with LOCOs, LBA will have flights to Athens, Berlin, Marseille, Rome and Madrid.

Like KAT TOO, I believe CAT2 as a minimum on RWY 14 is paramount, but this will be costly. If LBA could take out the weather factor it will be closer to getting to business on a level playing field with other airports.

So get your head out of the clouds and get to work.:yuk:

From YORKSHIRE:ok: the place to be is the city of Leeds.
In case you've been wondering i'm a fan of my city too.:cool:

[bmifox]

Over the past week i have been in touch with several holiday companies, airlines, councillors etc about what has been said on here. I have told them all to read these pages and many have and got back to me. One holiday company has told me they would be very intrested in operating a series of holidays to Croatia from LBA.
WHY THE HELL AM I HAVING TO DO THIS!!! When 4 people at LBA get paid more than me to go out and get new business! I just wanted to prove how easy it would be to get a holiday company intrested. Now lets here from EA what he thinks of his marketing team! If HE thinks they do a good job? If your are reading this EA please e-mail me at [email protected] and i will gladly put your responce on here. I know you must be a very busy man but i think this is of paramount importance to the future survival of LBA. You have already lost the top winter destinations of Gran Canaria and Fuerteventura for this coming season, how many more do you want to lose? I know Jet2 have made a massive impact at the airport but not everyone wants to travel lo-cost even if they are the best in the country at it!
I look forward to your responce Mr Anderson.

[BEST L/CONTROLLER]

I don't know if your aware but there is no Palma flts this winter at the moment other than Jet2 which I think is very strange,

CHEERS!!!!!!!!:ok:

[Mooncrest]

BEST L/CONTROLLER

It's probably not all that strange. My simple take on this one is that Jet2 have swiped so much of the Palma business from the TOs that it's not going to be profitable for them to operate the route. If this is the case, I wouldn't be surprised if a few more traditional Spanish TO destinations went the same way.

... As BMIFOX points out, Gran Canaria and Fueteventura have already disappeared. These are developing markets for the locos. Admittedly, Jet2's current fleet doesn't have the range for the Canaries but that could change. As for BMI Baby, I think their 733s are range capable and they're on the lookout for more. And if they're looking for office space too...

Idle speculation I know but these rumours and things have a habit of bearing fruit. The LBA BACX base closure was rumoured, denied and dismissed for months and then...wallop ! :* :mad: :{

[682ft AMSL]

I'm sure this will add fuel to the fire....

UK-based Tour Operator, Kosmar, which specialises in holidays to Greece have announced that Astraeus and Excel Airways are to base Boeing 737s in summer 2005 to operate its massive Greek destination expansion plan from Nottingham East Midlands Airport.

The aircraft will be based all week and will operate flights to Chania, Heraklion, Kalamata, Skiathos/Volos, Kos, Rhodes, Zakynthos, Kefalonia and Corfu.

The aircraft will also be used to operate flights for other operators such as Palma on Saturdays for Libra Holidays.

[LBAir]

........but nobody likes to spend their holidays in Greece, remember!! (note. the types of aircraft, and accosiated available passenger loads JET2.com:hmm: )

[wawkrk]

Can anyone confirm this?
One LBA employee told me that EA is in semi-retirement and it was not said as a joke.

[bmifox]

Just a quick note to say a massive thankyou to all of you who have got in touch with me privately at [email protected] The support we have from people not connected with LBA is amazing. 1 e-mail in particular brought a tear to my eye...
Hi Mate,
Have been keeping an eye on the thread on pprune with intrest.I was wondering which newspapers you had been in touch with as i have contacts at local rags and i didn't want to contact them if you had already!
Look forward to receiving your reply!
Allan.
Now 'Allan' when you sent me this e-mail you forgot to take your REAL name off the top of it....silly GIRL. Yes this e-mail was sent from....well i can't name her, but i know for a fact she works at...yep, you guessed it....LBA Marketing Department!!!! Nice to see you have lots of spare time on your hands Zxx! Instead of trying to catch people like me out why don't you just stick to what you are good at...erm i mean stick to your job! and get the bloody website upto date (ie, put the correct Cyprus and Gran Canaria info up). Then you could contact Kosmar Holidays to see if 2-3 of their flights from NEMA could 'W' into LBA from a few places in Greece next Summer!
P.S. I HAVE A FEW CONTACTS OF MY OWN NOW TA VERY MUCH LOVE!!!

[LBAir]

Good work BMIFOX, keep it up! At least we know someone at LBA is actualy reading this thread. Hopefully, if they're not taking it all to heart, they might actually do something about it.

We cannot hold our breath, remember most of the Marketing Department including the Marketing Executive are all from travel agents. They're only used to selling holidays from Manchester!! They have no track record of selling an airport to airlines or to holiday companies.

The right company to do the job could put a sizable thorn in Manchesters side if they put their mind to it. remember
4 MILLION PASSENGER CATCHMENT

BMIFOX... still nothing in the YEP, any word from them:)

[682ft AMSL]

It's not all bad!

Just to say the airport have released details of July passenger numbers (but not on the website, strangely). Total of 243,343 - the highest ever monthly total. This was some 28,000 more passengers than last July, comprising 42,000 more from Jet2 and a 14,000 net reduction from the other operators. Current run rate points to between 2.3m - 2.4m passengers for 2004.


682

[Mooncrest]

While there's no doubt that Jet2 is putting an awful lot of passengers through LBA and that they have established a strong brand, I wouldn't like to see LBA putting all their eggs in one basket, so to speak. Jet2 could probably very easily plug the gap in the charter market by doing Greece, Italy and Cyprus with a more capable batch of Boeings but it could commence a dominance of the airport that other potential operators (that's if there are any) may find uncomfortable, viz. the BMI brigade at East Mids and Ryanair at Stansted, not forgetting BA at Heathrow... Sorry, it's been a long day. Wot I'm trying to say is I'm all for Jet2 and the boost they have brought to LBA. I just hope it doesn't prove to be at the expense of other airlines and ultimately LBA itself.

Just to wander off the thread a little, did any other locals monitor the situation at LBA on Thursday evening ? The storms were cracking, the runway flooded in at least two places and some four or five flights diverted to Manchester and Teesside as a result.
Normally it's fog and the associated lack of an adequate ILS on RW14 that leads to diversions, but don't get me started on that... :(

[ILS32]

Mooncrest

If you where there at the time the volume of water coming down was amazing. There were 2 problems with the runway.
1
A 15 metre wide stream of water 6mm deep coming from the pan across the runway and down the Delta taxiway.

2
Water at either side of the middle section of the runway which restricted it to a 36 metre wide strip.(I think Jet2 required 40 metres)

Water then formed a stream from the Lima intersection.
The staff did a marvelous job to clear water.The use of the brushes was more like a snow clearing operation.
Not a time for taking the dog for a run on the moor top.

ILS32

[bmifox]

Just a quick note to keep you all updated!
On Friday i posted off 35 letters to various Councillors, MP's, journalists, travel companies and the MD and marketing dept of LBA. Full copies of what has been said on pprune over the last few weeks were also included. Any replies i will of course put straight on here!

[LBAir]

Well done BMIFOX

Have you not thought of a change of career? I have not had time to e-mail you, but you are truly doing a great job. I don't think there is anything else that can be added to this topic. The comments from all involved unanimously said it all.

Lets hope the LBA management take a good look at this and act quickly. :ok:

PS. Ed, the Website is out of date now, it needs a good face lift!

[bmifox]

Thanks for that LBAir! To be honest i would be quite happy to see 5 new destinatios next summer! HER,RHO,KGS,PFO and DVB( is that the 3 letter code for Dubrovnik?) Well when i say new i mean reinstated! A company called Holiday Options has a good programme to Croatia and already fly from NWI/BRS/NCL. It's amazing how many flights LBA has lost over the years. I can think of PFO,KGS,HER,RHO,GRO,SZG,DVB,PUY,LJU,SPU,YYZ,GCI,LGW,BRS,CWL, MIR,LEI,BJV,ADN and i'm sure i must have missed some out!
Lets hope the marketing team get some new business for next season.

[LBAir]

I hope you quoted those destinations in your letters you have posted. The management cannot put it down to lack of interest, except maybe GRO when JET2.com have a daily service to BCN.
I think that the destinations you have mentioned for next year are not too much to ask, but will marketing pull their finger out. Christmas is the deadline, if they're to make a go of it.

Another area that could be exploited more is Bulgaria, BALKAN HOLIDAYS have been loyal to LBA for many years now. Bulgaria is becoming more and more popular and most of the main tour operators now offer flights there. (LBA-NOTE: from other airports) Many large hotel groups are now opening-up in bulgaria, RIU, IBERSTAR etc.

Mooncrest....

LBA in my eyes did everything possible last week. It was the worst rain I have ever known. I was told that even sand bags had been used in some areas to stop further water getting onto the runway. The floods, not uneque to the airport alone. Many local roads had been flooded including Bayton Lane, Low Lane, Scotland Lane and many other parts of Horsforth, Yeadon and Guiseley.

Just for the record TUI, the same night a tornado hit Doncaster and it wasn't of the RAF kind!!:eek:

from YORKSHIRE:ok: the place to be is the city of Leeds.

[wawkrk]

Well done BMIFOX.
For sure you are in the wrong job.
Alas, you will never be offered the position that we all have mind.
The reason?You know too much about the airline business.

wawkrk

[bmifox]

SHOCK...HORROR!!!
The marketing department are actually promoting some NEW flights from LBA to the Caribbean on the website! Well done to SR and the A team up there! That's the way to do it.
Shame they are not doing the same with Thomsons flights to LCA and LPA next summer which don't get a mention anywhere...not even on the out of date charters list which i think they have given up on to be honest!

[682ft AMSL]

A bit of context for the debate. The data supplied by NCL for July's passenger numbers (see the 'Some News fron Newcastle' thread) showed that they handled 253,000 passengers on IT flights alone. This is 10,000 more than LBA handled in total.

Interestingly, the number given for 'Low Cost International' at NCL is 85,465 which I presume is Easyjet + Ryanair + HLX.

Jet2 handled 90,000 at Leeds in total. So strip out their BFS numbers and add in Ryanair and hey presto, 98,000 passengers on low-cost international routes.

I think in a nutshell that rather sums up why there is so much frustration with the inability to develop a decent IT network out of Leeds. The average IT throughput is about 4 times smaller than NCL but from a catchment area that is much the same - as the similar numbers on low-cost international services brings to light.

682

[Eggs Petition]

Well... you have all been stirring it up!

All LBA staff are now banned from viewing PPRUNE on company computers.

Several staff summoned to management and "interrogated" over recent postings.



:yuk:

[nibor]

Well let's face it. The only way the management are going to find out what is planned for LBA is to ask the staff!!!!

The should have tried a rather less aggressive method along time ago, A 'SUGGESTION BOX'.

[PTH needs tarmac]

Eggs Petition

Sadly that's far from the first time that LBA management has responded to public criticism by holding a quick witch-hunt and hauling a few staff over the coals (though I suppose witches should be put in the ducking stool).

"Any more talking to the outsiders and you're for the high jump" seems the standard line.

Addressing the cause of the criticism always seems like such a hard job doesn't it!

I think everyone posting on this thread wants LBA to succeed but we are frustrated by a perceived lack of action in key areas. Maybe a job for more effective public relations?


682.

Another area of disparity with NCL would be connections to London. In May 2004 NCL shifted a combined 86,750 passengers to LHR, LGW and STN. LBA only had 14,617 to LHR. Protecting and improving links to London from regional airports is under discussion by parliament currently I believe. LBA should have a lot to say on this issue.

PTH

[LBAir]

Are you still there BMIFOX..............????

I'm still here!!

It's a shame that the LBA management have to resort to gagging their staff. As mentioned, i'm sure that all who have posted on this thread have got LBAs interests at heart. One thing I am sure is that they have started to open their eyes a little more now.

*The revolving doors suddenly been fixed
*The 'retail walkway' has had it's windows cleaned
*The bubbling flooring has had more tape put down to cover it up
*Don't forget to replace the buckets, they're looking a bit full!!

The management have clearly shown to the airline world that they are running scared and not running a business as I first thought. I did think we lived in a democratic country? Obviously I was mistaken then.

Bring back the Berlin wall........and place it around LBA!!!

In case you've not noticed LBA. There is a new thread called 'LBA expansion 2' of which I have started. This is not a negative thread but at the moment there's hardly anything there. :rolleyes:

from YORKSHIRE :ok: the place to be is the city of Leeds.

[Going loco]

So LBA is about 190,000 IT passengers behind NCL - an airport that has a similar sized catchment.

- MAN handles about 1 million IT pax per month.

- Previous studies / surveys have indicated that about 20-30% of MAN's throughput comes from Yorkshire.

- 190,000 is 19% of 1 million. This is the size of the opportunity for Leeds and still leaves plenty of room for Doncaster to claw back it's fair share from over the Pennines.

Ball park numbers granted, but that's what's going on. Banning people from discussing it won't make it go away.

loco

[bmifox]

LBAir, i'm still here mate! Been VERY busy today with things relating to pprune!!! (if you catch my drift);) Been meeting lots of intresting people who want to know more!!!

[LBAir]

I hope you can tell more as soon as possible. Like everyone else I want to see LBA moving forwards a lot quicker. I hope you didn't get into any trouble with your letters you had posted.

[GrahamK]

No offence, but hasnt it occurred to some of the LBA lovers that maybe some of these routes you suggest arent feasible at all from LBA?
Yes, its good to see LBA expand, but come on...with MAN and now Finningley opening, LBA aint gonna become much more than an LCC base (which Jet2 have made as a very good base from may I add)

[682ft AMSL]

GrahamK -depends what you mean by 'feasible'. If you mean flights are not feasible because there isn't the demand to sustain them, then the answer is no. That particular point has been raised consistently in the thread, but in the case of any doubt, refer to section 5.4.3 of the Government's consultation paper on The Future Development of Air Transport in the United Kingdom (North of England) which states:

"There is substantial leakage of passengers from Yorkshire and the Humber to airports in other parts of the North of England, particularly Manchester and the South East. Although 53% of domestic passengers from Yorkshire and the Humber flew from Leeds Bradford, only 15% of international scheduled and 12% of international charter passengers did so"

So if the 60,000 charter passengers a month at Leeds is just 12% of the total, then the total volume of charter passengers generated in Yorkshire and Humberside is about 500,000 per month. From other sources, a crude breakdown of where these passengers actually are flying in or out of is:

60,000 - Leeds
40,000 - Humberside
300,000 - Manchester
60,000 - East Mids
40,000 - Other (South East, BHX, MME/NCL)

If you mean feasible in the sense, of profitability from the tour operator perspective, then that is more a valid point. It is acknowledged that it suits the tour operators to serve the bulk of the Yorks market from MAN (and there will no doubt be some of the 300,000 that are choosing MAN because it is more convenient or is cheaper). This is accepted, but equally most people believe that LBA (esp. given its 100% public ownership) should / could be doing more to claw back passengers from MAN. The recent comments by TUI (ironically enough from Bill Savage, ex MD of LBA) that regional airports should be doing more to lower charges to charter airlines are I think particularly valid in this debate.

682

[bmifox]

Just been looking at the websites for other Northern airports and their charter destinations for this Summer. MAN has flights to 79 airports for charter only flights, NCL has 44 charter destinations, NEMA has 40, LBA has 21:{ ,LPL has 19, MME has 16, HUY has 15.
LBA should have at least 30 charter destinations to offer us! Don't forget i think we will loose 1 or 2 destinations for next year if we don't get our act together!!!

[aeulad]

HUY has 16 destinations:

Palma
Mahon
Ibiza
Tenerife S
Las Palmas
Arrecife
Alicante
Malaga
Faro
Larnaca
Bodrum
Dalaman
Corfu
Heraklion
Bourgas
Jersey

Regards

Mike

[bmifox]

DOH...Sorry Mike. I thought the HER flights had been canx! Glad to see they are still operating it with Libra Holidays.

[Mooncrest]

Blue Eagle,

Check your PMs please. Thankyou.

MC

[KAT TOO]

LIBA have now issued a consultation document to relevant parties with regard to the future of 09/27, the proposals are more or less a done deal and will see an additional 5 stands created in the infill between the Eastern apron and 27 threshold.

I understand that they require these stands for next years Loco (Summer)program.

Winter will also see another airline at LBA (Flying for bmi) with the arrival of Skyways Embraer 145, planned to do an early Paris and late Glasgow, no secrect about this one, its already on bmi booking website.

LBA a great place to work and fly, but i can't post from the office any more, cos there getting a bit upset up stairs, he he he

[CaptainFillosan]

If what is being said that the LBA management have been threatening posters on PPRuNe is true, be assured that your anonomity is safe. PPRuNe does not release details of anyone posting here.

If LBA have a problem perhaps they should address it instead of protesting that people who have the interests of the airport at heart are protesting!

Indeed, let them look here in PPRuNe. It is a hive of information about all aspects of aviation and if something is falling short in aviation it will. more than likely, appear here.

Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[Danny_R]

LPL has 19 :{ even worse!

Both LBA and LPL need to start fighting back at MAN, so many people in Yorkshire and Merseyside are forced to travel from MAN, despite having airports on their doorsteps!

Its time both airports made sure they got more business from airlines!

LBA would probably be best being taken over by a private company that will invest, just like Peel have done for LPL.

Although they don't appear to have done a great job at LPL arrivals, where are all the seats?! I was disgusted at the sight of seeing 100+ people standing around waiting, while all of the 9 or so seats in the area where taken up. Come on Peel invest in some more seating! It’s not too difficult!

All our regional airports have the potential to take back some of those passengers from Manchester, they just have to work at it and make the airport more desirable, come on boys and girls, we know you can do it!

[wawkrk]

I have to agree with LBA Air on starting a new thread.
The title Leeds expansion 2 became more appropriate because "Greek Summer Programme" changed in content and no longer reflected the thread title.
I think on this occaision the administrator was being a little heavy handed in killing it off.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Nothing heavy handed about it at all. We simply do not allow multiple threads. If the starter of this thread would like to delete it - OR I close it - then please feel free to start another thread. I can also change the title of this one :uhoh:

But you cannot have two. Your choice.


PPP

[bmifox]

I think EA is back from holiday today. I wonder if he flew from LBIA???;)