Airways clearances

[GT]

As a Flying Instructor, I thought I'd try this forum first as I know what a bright bunch we are! I hope you'll all excuse my ignorance regarding the following query.

I recently passed my IR test. The flight started from a controlled aerodrome (Leeds Bradford actually) so I was given my airways/class A clearance by the Leeds approach controller. He then handed me over to the class A controller at Manchester Control. Nice and easy!

However, if I want to fly IFR from an uncontrolled aerodrome, straight into the airways, what is the procedure for obtaining my airways clearance? The uncontrolled aerodome won't be able to give it to me (air-ground only). Do I contact the class A controller directly, off my own bat, and if so which of the many frequencies that they seem to have would I use? Old hands tell me years ago they used to contact London Information and they would get the necessary clearance - is this still the case? Hoping for some guidance.

Regards, a slightly baffled GT.

[Night Rider]

Hi there GT,

What you need to do is call the approach/radar controller at an airfield (civil or military) close to your departure point. For example, taking off from Wellesbourne(EGBW) for an airways flight a pilot could call Birmingham(EGBB) Approach once airbourne. The EGBB APP controller would be in contact with the airways controller and could get an Airways Joining Clearance.

The main thing to remember in this situation is to STAY OUT OF CAS UNTIL YOU HAVE BEEN CLEARED TO ENTER.

Happy flying...


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Pull back and the houses get smaller - pull back a bit more and the houses get bigger!

[JuicyLucy]

London Info is still the way to do it, unless you are already talking to an approach unit. The trouble with free callers on approach unit freqs. is you tend to be ignored if its busy - certainly true in the SE of England.
Have handy the departure time, the parent unit where the FPL was filed, the requested joining position/level and the estimate for it.
The workload tends to be vertical the first few times so watch out for CAS !!!

[QNH 1013]

I find it is worth telephoning ATC the day before and asking their advice if your departure is near one of the major airfields. I have always found them extremely helpful on the telephone. Some of the lower flight levels seem to be more or less permanantly assigned to the radar controllers at nearby airfields so they can often clear you quickly into class A with a suitable limit while they get your clearance from London (or whichever control).
Its easy to ask them on the telephone what the simplest proceedure is going to be for a particular flight.
They won't always get a copy of your flight plan but you can add their address at the top of CA48 and then they certainly will. This helps too because you are not then such a surprise!

[Honest Frank]

If departing from Elstree for instance(A/G as it was then or AFIS as it is now) they would give you a squawk obtained from Luton and the contacting frequency and ofcourse "remain clear of all controlled airspace."

[Airprox]

At some a/g airfields thay will contact a near by ATSU and obtain a clearance for you from them. They will then pass the clearance onto you 'London clears G-OBOY to enter controlled airspace at DCS climbing FL270 Squawk 5762 contact 119.87 passing 6,000'.

Just ask the a/g operator if he is able to obtain clearance for you otherwise open your flight plan when airbourne and hope you don't have a slot!!
:)

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AP

[rambler]

Come to Australia guys..we simplify it for us stupid blokes down here..!!

[bookworm]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Come to Australia guys..we simplify it for us stupid blokes down here..!!</font>

Simplify it?! You blokes call it an "airways clearance" when you have to scud run out of a control zone into uncontrolled airspace! :)

[cficare]

Bookworm

Its called "Special VFR" and it is NOT designed to get you out of Controlled Airspace

[bookworm]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Its called "Special VFR" and it is NOT designed to get you out of Controlled Airspace</font>

Neither corresponds to my experience or to the text in the Australian version of Flight Rules and Air Law in the Trevor Thom series. We received an "airways clearance" to depart the Hobart control zone low level VFR. It was VFR, and as far as I'm concerned it was scud running.

[pitotheat]

Congrats on your IR GT.

From Conington you are better off talking to East Mids when airborn if heading West or North West and Luton or Stansted if heading South. I have found Cottesmore can sometimes help but I don't think they have a direct line to London and they are normally closed at weekends. Lakenheath will not always understand what you want.

I faxed the FP to a controller at Cottesmore for info once which helped although in theory you should be able to nominate control units as information addressees in the top bit of the FP.

Never used London Info.

I hope this might be of help.

What is your next move?

Regards

[GT]

Thanks for all the info everyone. If I can ever afford to hire an aeroplane again after my IR I'll give it a try!

Pitotheat, you would appear to have me at a disadvantage. As for the next move, ah well, there's a good question......

[DB6]

As airprox says, the A/G operator should get your clearance for you. I only know that because our resident R/T examiner was testing a prospective A/G operator last month and failed him because he couldn't pass on a clearance properly.
Cheers DB6

[Red Spitfire Driver]

As an ex-FIR (London Information) controller, I would say call 'Information' to request a joining or crossing clearance.

London Information has a direct link into the Airways computer so can;
Firstly, see if your details are filed (in the LATCC) database.
If not they can take your details on, hopefully a quite frequency, and then input them direct to the LATCC computer.
Secondly, contact the sector rapidly for the joining clearance. If the sector won't answer the phone they can 'run over' and present it to the sector in person. That is something that the majority of APC units cannot do !
The FIR controller can also take an airborne flight plan should you require it. But please make sure that you have made it out in advance, so that you can just read it to him/her. There is nothing worse than someone trying to give you details from memory !!
Cheers
PS I am only an ex-FIR chappie as the let me do Radar now...