Instructing is all want!!

[Rob 747]

Hello all,

I am 21 with a brand new JAA PPL(UK).
All i want to do is intruct. OK,when i began flying i was dreaming of 737's and A320's, but now having seen my instructor take me from 'young lad'- Pilot, i really want to do it aswell.
Think about it, what could be more satisfying than teaching people to fly.
My problem is - I need to know how to get into instructing. The school i learned at seem quite happy to take me on when i have got an FI(r), but i can imagine most schools say that.
The CFI who took my skills test said i would make a good instructor (as did my instructor), but was he just saying that because he knows i am paying well over £200 for this skills test?
I think they feel like this because i ask if 'I' can recover from the 'SPINS'

Ahh well- Ive got that off m chest now. Seeya.

[Ivan Ivanovich]

"Think about it, what could be more satisfying than teaching people to fly."

We don't need to think about it; this is the instructors' forum!

[Rob 747]

Well think about it!!
If your interests are stepping up the ladder in your aviation career, then you must be another 'hour building' instructor.
What would you class as your next step on the ladder?? eh..?? Airline pilot??
So somebody like you will not be able to offer any some body like me any help??
Just a cockey, narrow minded remark. Quite frankly i wouldnt want to work with you (or be taught by you)if you were last instructor on earth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[This message has been edited by Rob 747 (edited 17 June 2001).]

[little red train]

Rob 747 with a dwarf like temper like that, being an instructor may not be the best option. Ivan, I presume, was stating the bleeding obvious and pointing out the the instructors in this forum, may have, at some point, actually thought about their profesion. It is a very satisfying moment indeed when you take someone up for the first time and see the smile on their face. but their is a lot more to it than that.

recipe to become an instructor

you will need:

1. class one medical
2. cpl theoretical knowledge (Get the ATPLs if you want a stab at the airlines)
3. 170hrs total 100hrs P1 (requirement for CPL issue is 200hrsTT
4. 300nm X-country
5. CPL Licence (25hrs inc. 10I/F min 5hrs complex, night rateing if not already held)
6. FIR(R) corse
7. Cash to pay for it all
8. slightly more easy going attitude, you'll get a load more crap than you think Ivan gave you.

Most the information regs etc, can be got from the caa website: CAA-nuptys.com (http://www.srg.caa.co.uk) and the JAR regs from JAA_to**ers.com. (http://www.jaa.nl.)


[This message has been edited by little red train (edited 17 June 2001).]

[UKPPL]

Rob747,

If your intention is to do 'club level' PPL type instruction. You may want to wait 6 months or so, to let the present UK system settle.

I've recently put my ATPL theory course on 'pause' along with plans to do a FI and CPL course, because it is strongly rumoured that the new NPPL which is due to be introduced early next year, will have provision for NPPL level FI's who can be paid for instructing.

In short this may mean (NB; may mean) that it will not be necessary to hold a CPL to be a paid club instructor for NPPL instruction. The path for gaining a FI for the NPPL will also be alot easier than currently (No JAR CPL exams to do??).

Please note though that this is all being discussed by CAA and AOPA right now and may be very different when implimented (??). Also if you want to do JAR PPL or CPL instruction you will still need a JAR CPL/FI.

Good luck

[Kermit 180]

I agree with Little Red Train on this one. If you want to instruct you'll need to be a little more cool headed. As an instructor you will have to be able to interact with people from all walks of life. Not an easy task sometimes. But I can understand your sentiment Rob, there are some who would rather nurse their logbooks than actually teach someone how to fly an aeroplane properly. Who knows? Given enough crap as an instructor, and those 737's and A320's may even start to look attractive again. Just remember your own sentiments when that happens.

KERMIE

[Solent 01]

UKPPL,

I have heard the same rumours, and have also put my career on hold. I only want to teach and have no interest in flying the big stuff, as such a CPL is of no real importance, just a means to an end.

I hope the pencil pushers come up with something workable with regards to the NPPL!!

Sol

[Night Rider]

To be honest chaps, all this NPPL business is starting to bother me a bit !

As far as I am concerned, I don't think anyone should be allowed to instruct unless they hold a PROFESSIONAL PILOTS LICENSE.

As an PPL Instructor/Examiner, I get to fly with a lot of people with very different personalities and abilities. The thought of some of the PPL`s I fly with actually teaching others to fly concerns me greatly - It will be like the blind leading the blind (or at best, the partially sighted leading the blind), in short, it would be a recipe for disaster as standards would drop greatly!

If somebody wants to be a career instructor (as I am considering at the moment) they should be required to hold at least a JAA CPL.

I agree totally with the basic priciple of introducing a NATIONAL PPL, but I think some of the proposals (like allowing PPL's to instruct and flying school's to operate at UNLICENSED AIRFIELDS) are just thoughtless and stupid.

I worked hard to get where I am in my career today, and I think the idea of letting people "bypass the system" is immoral as well as dangerous!

[UKPPL]

Night Rider,

I guess it's up to the CAA and AOPA as to what they come up with..

.. immoral, what the CAA's rule making, never!

I know what you mean and I think it is essential that all students get the necessary standard of well trained/qualified/motivated instructors (for many reasons) but at the end of the day the FI course is what teaches you to become a FI, not the CPL course.

The last thread on this ever so thorny issue went on for well over 100 posts in the wanabee forum, so pls everyone lets not raise the topic again (pretty please).

I'm pretty pi^&$ off with the current situation myself, I'm halfway though ATPL groundschool with the prospect of spending £££ on training and with the prospect of the rules being changed just as I qualify... hence I've put all my training on hold whilst I sit back and wait for the powers to be to decide what is the 'best' route for NPPL FI's.

All the best

UKPPL.

[Night Rider]

UKPPL,

Thanks for the feedback.

Best of luck with your exams - I'm sure you'll do well.

Please do not misunderstand me - at no time have I ever suggested that the CAA's rulemaking is immoral. The idea's/suggestions regarding the NPPL have, in the main, been created by people already involved with the GA scene i.e. CFI's, Flying School owners/manager's etc...and NOT the CAA. It is the CAA's job to decide whether or not the rules applied are acceptable, particularly with regard to safety. I do not beleive the idea of allowing PPL holders to instruct was ever suggested by the CAA - on the contrary, I believe they would be opposed to the idea.

I did'nt realise this issue had already been discussed in other parts of the PPRUNE and I value your (and everyone else's) comments.

I am fortunate in the sense that I am able to make my feelings known not only on the PPRUNE and in the press, but also at the Examiner meetings I attend.

Good Luck & Happy Flying....

[This message has been edited by Night Rider (edited 18 June 2001).]

[backdraftuk]

Just a thought for all you potential national licence instructors, who are holding off doing the CPL exams. At present the FI(R) course prepares you to start learning how to teach, you will only learn how when you start doing it for real. The CPL gets your flying knowledge and skill to the point where you should at least have a little spare mental capacity to teach whilst you are flying.
If the need for a CPL is scrapped for teaching the national licence I'm sure the CAA will be looking for a shed load of flying experience and the crystal ball says 700 hrs, or am I confusing that with the hrs needed for the issue of a CPL.

[RVR800]

Rob 747 = Ronchonner

[Night Rider]

backdraftuk,

I believe what your saying is basically correct - what the people who are "holding off" on the CPL training need to remember is that they won't get something for nothing.

If all the plans to allow PPL's to instruct go ahead, I suspect they will probably find that there will be a massive amount of hours required and the rating will have so many restrictions on it that it will be almost unusable !



[This message has been edited by Night Rider (edited 19 June 2001).]

[UKPPL]

Night Rider / backdraft

I agree with what you are saying.

Yes, the CAA still have to agree with AOPA's suggestions, but the current thought is that they probably will.

I'd love to get on with my training and get on with it... but there is no way I'm going to fork out over £10K on the gamble they don't change the rules. Unfortunately the CAA's recent track record in that respect isn't too good, so i can't take the risk.

I think what is certain, is that if they do bring in a new NPPL FI rating that there will be a maintenance of standards, such as minimum hours, perhaps a longer/different FI course etc.

... I just hope they don't take for ever to finalise their decissions on this topic.

For what it's worth, my opinion is that it would be great if they could somehow combine elements of the FI and CPL in one course for NPPL instructors (with some sensible pre-entry requirements), making it more effective to do than the present system (for people who just want to only instruct).

Best regards.

UKPPL

[New Bloke]

Hmm, sort of a BCPL type of thing do you mean?

[UKPPL]

New Bloke,

Who knows, with the planned demise of JAR in a few years time and the public announcement by the new euro body that they don't want anything to do with GA and that each country should regulate it's own GA affairs, then mayby the CAA will go back to times of old? Mayby the NPPL will be just the start of national licencing for GA (again)?

[Airprox]

I can see where they're coming from with the NPPL, but with the average student flying well over 45 hrs to get their PPL anyway, why bother going for a NPPL when a Jar PPL will cost the same?

What happens when the student realises this half way through training and decides to swap from the NPPL to the Jar PPL. If he has been taught by a NPPL FI then the poor student will have to effectively start from scatch as the NPPL FI cannot instruct for a JAR licence.

If anyone asks me whether they should fly with a Jar FI or a NPPL FI I would recommend the Jar FI. ;)

------------------
AP

[This message has been edited by Airprox (edited 20 June 2001).]