Helicopter raises village anger [Archive]

HOGE

27th Jun 2004, 12:42

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/3831965.stm

People in the sleepy Cornish hamlet of Trewen near Launceston are furious that one of the residents has based a helicopter at his home.
They say it is noisy and scares livestock.

And the district council is taking action to restrict flights and have a hangar removed.

The owner, retired businessman Shaun Griffin, says he is acting within the law and does not need planning permission.

'Absolutely horrifying'

Mr Griffin said: "The helicopter is for pleasure use and will be used a maximum of three or four times a week.

"Landing and take off takes only five minutes, it does not operate on any flight path and the noise level is low."

Bill Hutchings, who has lived in the village for 50 years, said: "It's an intrusion into a rural area - the hangar looks appalling - and it's going to cause a lot of disruption."

Artist Mark Gibbons, who moved to Trewen six months ago, said: "I came here to work in a quiet village and having a helicopter landing and taking off 100m from my home is absolutely horrifying."

North Cornwall District Council has issued enforcement notices to stop any unauthorised use of the helicopter and is ordering the removal of the hangar because it does not have planning permission.

But Mr Griffin said the hangar was a temporary building and did not need planning permission and he would appeal.

If the council does not withdraw the notices, they take effect in the middle of next month and Mr Griffin will have 28 days to comply.

If he appeals against the notices the final outcome will be decided by the planning inspectorate.

md 600 driver

27th Jun 2004, 16:18

i agree its a terrible intrusion and should be stoped imediately

and allow the poor chap to fly in to his house whenever he wishes

my support goes for him and wish him the best of luck
steve

Grainger

27th Jun 2004, 16:21

One assumes that none of the people who complained ever operates a petrol mower then ?

davehearn

27th Jun 2004, 17:47

YOU CAN BET YOUR LIFE THAT FARMER BROWNS TRACTOR IS NOISIER, AND AS FOR MR ARTIST WHY DOESNT HE TRY PAINTING PICTURES OF HELICOPTERS?

AS FOR THE HANGER A FRIEND OF MINE WAS REFUSED PLANNING PERMISSION FOR A HANGER SO HE CALLED IT A COWSHED AND JUST BY COINCEDENCE HIS R22 FITS IN IT A TREAT.:}
I BET NO ONE MOANS WHEN A NOISY MOPED GOES PAST THEIR HOUSE 20 ODD TIMES A WEEK

currawong

28th Jun 2004, 02:47

Before aviation I worked in construction.

Working on a house one day the owner arrived, fuming and shaking his fist at a military chopper passing overhead, muttering about making a formal complaint etc etc.

"Did you buy this property on a weekend?" I asked.

"Errr, yes" was the reply.

I then handed him a copy of that days newspaper, the front page celebrating 25 years of operation of said type of chopper from a nearby airbase.

He never realised he had bought, under the circuit, near a base that had been there for 50 years, operating choppers for the last 25.

******.

4ero

28th Jun 2004, 14:21

There's nothing like making your mind up well in advance....

"Bill Hutchings, who has lived in the village for 50 years, said: "It's an intrusion into a rural area - the hangar looks appalling - and it's going to cause a lot of disruption."

Good on ya Bill :hmm:

enstrompilot

29th Jun 2004, 14:05

Mr griffin is starting down a long road I hope he is sucessful !

I have an ongoing battle with my local planners

they have not only enforced against use more than 28 days each year but have also applied an article 4 driection notice that removes the 28 days !

They have even suggested the use of compulsary purchase to stop the use.

the good news is that they have to pay compensation (may be up to £300K !)

I am enageged with QC and preparing a case in the land tribunal to have this matter resolved (compensation paid)

I have a wealth of leagal papers, president and QC opinion that may help Mr Griffin, perhaps he would like to contact me

good luck

Ian

2Sticks

30th Jun 2004, 14:27

A pal of mine was recently 'accosted' by a women at a village fete who was collecting signatures on a petition against aircraft operating out of Denham airfield which were allegedly 'flying over peoples houses' (what a disgrace!). He politely asked her if she had ever flown in an aeroplane, to which she answered 'of course, I have when I go on holiday'. He said that he was quite surprised as he'd expected her reply to be that she hadn't, since it was clear she didn't mind flying over people's houses herself! With that, she scurried away mumbling to herself!!

2Sticks

airborne_artist

1st Jul 2004, 13:53

I'm not shouting anyone down, but look at it from the existing residents' POV.

Mr G (retired, perhaps bought the house here when he retired) lives in a hamlets (so perhaps 20-30 houses max). A quick look at my OS 50,000 map shows it to be very compact also and a resident says, unconfirmed, that the helo is 100 yards away.

Others (some for as long as 50 years) enjoy the area. OK, there's tractors and lawnmowers, but they are used to them, and they only go along the ground. FYI new lawnmowers now have a legal max noise level, but that's less significant. Tractors don't make a huge din, and they move along, as farmers don't make enough money to do the job at walking pace.

In moves our Mr G, puts up a building without PP (bet you'd be pissed if yr neighbour put up a place big enough to house a helo right next to your conservatory) and proceeds to land his helo.

You've never been near a helo - except perhaps seen the RN/RAF ones on exercise (and where possible they minimise using the same LL routes day in day out), and the idea of one at 150' close to your house is frightening (certainly scared my 3 yr old when a Gazelle landed in his school playing field). You're not a petrol/Jet A1 head either, probably more at home with Bill Oddie than Top Gear.

Mr G then proceeds to use his helo when he likes, say 6-8 times a week - well my grass grows fast, but even my Mrs can't get me to mow it more than every 4 days, and no farmer I know ever goes over the same field that often every week, 52 weeks/yr. If you've got a minute just work out how high he'd be at normal glideslope when 200m out, not very high is it?

Mr G is clearly a clever man, what with buying a nice house, affording a PPL(H) and buying a nice helo, so how come he didn't think to ring the planning officer at the council and say "is it OK if I use my lawn/paddock to land my very qiet helo? and BTW can I put up a big shed to keep it warm and dry?"

He didn't, by all accounts, or if he did he'd have been told what they have said to the BBC - 28 days per year, max, although there may be a loophole, if the spot is actually in his garden, not his field (curtilage is the word).

So he continued, and now he's got a fight on.

Clearly someone who buys a place next to an airfield/pigfarm and then complains about the noise/smell is very foolish, but if the airfield/pigfarm gets put up, with no notice or consultation, they get upset, with some reason.

I hope Mr G does get to use his new helo from home, but I also hope he doesn't spoil it for the rest of the village, who so far have had no choice as to whether he did so.

GA needs to make friends, not enemies, and if that means playing by their rules. regardless of what we think of them, then maybe that's a better way. All you'll do otherwise is fill the lawyers' pockets (see prevous post)

ppheli

7th Jul 2004, 04:57

this one does not seem to be going away. From the Daily Mail yesterday...

Our Helicopter Hell ; Villagers Fight Neighbour Over Their Shattered Peace and the Big Blue Hangar at the Bottom of the Garden
Source: Daily Mail; London (UK)
Publication date: 2004-07-06

WHEN Bob and Sheila Lawes moved to the hamlet of Trewen 18 months ago, they found total tranquillity.
Their house overlooked the unspoilt Inney Valley, on the edge of Bodmin Moor in Cornwall, and the only sound came from birds and farm animals.

Now, however, the view from their sittingroom window often consists of a neighbour's large, black, jet-powered helicopter.

And when it takes off, with businessman Shaun Griffin at the controls, the noise is excruciating.

To make matters worse, he has installed a large blue hangar on his land to house his executive toy.

Outraged at the breach of their peace, the villagers are demanding action against 44-year-old Mr Griffin and his Hughes 369.

North Cornwall District Council has obtained an enforcement notice to ground the helicopter from July 15.

But the demon pilot warned yesterday that he would not surrender without a fight.

Mr Griffin moved into his Pounds 350,000 bungalow in three acres last Christmas, weeks before he sold off Eurotech, a double-glazing firm in nearby Liskeard.

He is understood to have separated from his wife and lives in his new home with his three-year-old son. He bought the helicopter in March and installed the hangar without seeking planning permission.

Mr and Mrs Lawes moved to Cornwall from Oxford in search of a quieter lifestyle after Mr Lawes suffered heart problems.

His 46-year-old wife, a business consultant, said: 'The helicopter is quite sinister. It is black with blacked-out windows. It's quite a sight in the back garden.

'And the noise is pretty terrible.

It's got a jet engine, so it's the most extreme sound you can imagine.

'People are concerned about safety. He is taking off and landing right outside our houses, which has got to be dangerous.' Mrs Lawes said Mr Griffin had told them that he planned to retire after selling his business for Left: Shaun Griffin. Above: His jet- powered helicopter as seen from the sitting room of Bob and Sheila Lawes, pictured right Pounds 800,000. Another homeowner said: 'You hear of neighbour disputes over music or noisy building work but parking a helicopter in this hamlet is just outrageous.

'Every morning I wake up and hope this is all a bad dream.' Herdsman Graham Frayne, 47, the parish council chairman, said: 'This chap has caused no end of trouble and doesn't seem to care two hoots. The noise is upsetting animals, particularly horses.' Villagers say the helicopter mercifully developed a fault which has stopped it flying for the past month.

But the entire valley was recently filled with black smoke as Mr Griffin attempted to carry out repairs.

Aviation experts said Mr Griffin appeared to be doing nothing wrong under air regulations which state that in a non- congested area, pilots are not permitted to fly within 500ft of a person, vessel, vehicle or structure but the rules do not apply for take- offs and landings.

A Civil Aviation Authority spokesman said: 'If they think the pilot is conforming with regulations but causing a disturbance then we would recommend starting a constructive dialogue.' Villagers doubt, however, that a friendly chat will help and are hoping the newcomer will be held to account under planning regulations. The Town and Country Planning Act 1990 allows permitted development building without planning permission in certain circumstances but anything built in a field requires the permission-of the local authority.

A defiant Mr Griffin, who also drives a BMW and a Mercedes, said: 'The helicopter is housed in a temporary hangar which does not need planning permission.

'My solicitor's view is that we are within our development rights and we are hoping to persuade the council to withdraw the notices. If that doesn't happen we are likely to appeal.' Eurotech's new managing director, Phillip Barbour, warned the people of Trewen his predecessor would fight to the bitter end.

'He's a hard-nosed businessman who won't let anything get in the way of what he wants to do,' he said. 'And one reason he sold his firm was to buy the helicopter.'

MightyGem

7th Jul 2004, 06:15

'The helicopter is quite sinister. It is black with blacked-out windows.
Along with a 'photo showing quite clearly see through windows!
The noise is upsetting animals, particularly horses
The animals will get used to it quicker than the humans.

airborne_artist

7th Jul 2004, 07:12

Mr Griffin ....... sold off Eurotech, a double-glazing firm

'He's a hard-nosed businessman who won't let anything get in the way of what he wants to do,'

A hard-nosed, double glazing salesman - looks like it will be a long fight for all concerned.

Makes it that much worse for the next person who wants to site/use his helo from home.

Vfrpilotpb

7th Jul 2004, 07:15

If the photograph in the Daily Mail is accurate, and not taken from some odd angle to make it look worse in order to enhance the story line, then being a fair and reasonable person I would say, sadly, this heli pilot chappie is out of order.

With that particular photograph in mind, why did he( the Heli pilot) not put the folding shelter(no planning required, for it is not higher than 4.6 mtrs, nor is it static, in other words it is temporary) in front of his own house, did he not think for one minute that his placing of this folding structure would incense his new neighbour.

Whilst an ardent fan of all things Heli wise, my feelings are that this Pilot is not being very bright, however again according to the Dmail, he sold his business for £800K, I think his money will run out before the neighbour or local planners take him to court!:hmm:

4ero

7th Jul 2004, 08:31

He is taking off and landing right outside our houses, which has got to be dangerous

erm...not really, no...

Villagers say the helicopter mercifully developed a fault which has stopped it flying for the past month.

I'd be doing very thorough dailys if i were him...

airborne_artist

7th Jul 2004, 09:37

:He is taking off and landing right outside our houses, which has got to be dangerous

erm...not really, no...

No helicopter movement is 100% safe, so the fact that he is moving in close proximity is bound to be more dangerous than if he was not there.

The real issue is the risk - probably much, much smaller than said lady falling down the stairs /cutting herself with the kitchen knife / scalding herself with the kettle.

Anyone have any figures for injuries sustained to a person on the ground from a falling aircraft in UK?

SilsoeSid

7th Jul 2004, 10:21

"How do you get yourself a small fortune?
Start off with a big fortune and buy a helicopter!"

I'm no accountant but with this money made from his company;

Bought house @ £350K
Bal -350K
Sold business @ £800K
Bal £450K
Bought heli @ £200K (price from
here (http://www.easyk.co.uk/kenyon/HFS.htm) as a guidline)
Bal £250K (previous balances assumed 'tied up for security)

Not allowing for 'living' costs, car running costs (BMW & Merc), wife/girlfriend costs and general entertainment/pastimes, £250K doesn't seem to be a fortune of any description.

Midlife crisis coming on?
With it being a temporary hangar, perhaps this will all be over once the weather starts to change.

One solution;
As this is happening Liskeard way, I'm sure Mr Griffin would probably be better off talking to Castle Air (http://www.castleair.co.uk/) who are nearby. Proper hangarage, facilities and security etc, it may cost a bit but with this guys 'finances' this shouldn't be a problem. Better for all.

IMHO, Maybe a simple case of, "Oi you, shut your mouth and look at my wad!"....

http://www.vinylsingles.co.uk/images/comic/loadsamoney.jpg

...for the time being anyway!

SS says, Griff, take the neighbours up for a ride, while you can. :ooh: :ok:

Flying Lawyer

7th Jul 2004, 11:18

Having learned a little more about Mr Griffin's attitude to people he thinks have crossed him, I've removed my supportive post.

airborne_artist

7th Jul 2004, 19:05

Mr Griffin moved into his £350,000 bungalow in three acres last Christmas, weeks before he sold off Eurotech, a double-glazing firm in nearby Liskeard.

'And the noise is pretty terrible....It's got a jet engine, so it's the most extreme sound you can imagine

And how do you keep noise out? Mr G is onto a good thing here - what's the betting that once they've all bought the product he'll move to another "peacefull, quiet, rural location" and repeat the trick!

Earpiece

7th Jul 2004, 21:04

Mr Griffin - take the advice that I've heard. Tell the Chairman of the PC and all the other local obectors that if you can't have your helicopter there with their blessing, you will sell the land to Gypsies - it happened too jolly close to me for real and a squadron of helicopters would have been preferable! But then in Cornwall I suppose they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the caravans.

ppheli

8th Jul 2004, 05:24

I think Sheila Lawes (see articles above) is actually Hyacinth Bucket in disguise! Despite having lived in the village only 18 months, she has already set herself up as "Clerk to the Parish" - see copy letter about this issue from her to the local "Post" newspaper
here (http://www.trewen.net/v1/?pageID=2&newsID=7).

Flying Lawyer

20th Dec 2004, 02:09

It seems as though Vfrpilotpb hit the nail on the head and some of us may have been a little too quick to assume this helicopter owner's neighbours were being unreasonable.

I've now heard from two separate sources that he positioned his hangar on the part of his land furthest away from his own house and close to his neighbour's house - blocking his neighbours' view and keeping his own unobstructed.
When advised that this was inconsiderate and likely to cause problems, he took the view that it was his own land and he could do what he wanted regardless of what they thought.

I'm told his response was similar when advised to stop doing engine runs at night.

If it's true, he appears to have brought the trouble upon himself.

I'm told his helicopter has been u/s for some months - no doubt to the relief of his neighbours.

SASless

20th Dec 2004, 02:53

Maybe Flying Lawyer can advise us the of the difference between being inconsiderate and being in violation of laws pertaining to blocking the view of a neighbor. If you own the property and are not violating any law, ordinance, covenant, or other building code restriction....who is to say where you put your hangar on your own property.

The guy might be a pushy, obnoxious, inconsiderate newly rich young man....but if he is within the law....he is within the law. As to the a Mad Dog done in black being sinsister....having a "jet engine" and all that....well bless me! Old maids that peer through kitchen curtains worry me a bit too.

How does one fill a valley with "black smoke" from a Mad Dog?

Engine runs at night....is there an "anti-noise" ordinance that pertains....if he is not in violation of that....again....he is not in violation of the law. Certainly in violation of a commonsense rule.

From the sounds of the arguments....the guy is rich beyond his intelligence. I would think I would move the chopper to an airfield and find some of that peace and tranquility he seems to be destroying.

But that being said....I can understand the guy resisting if he is in fact not in violation of the law. People do look for ways to deprive others of their freedom these days.

You reckon if he had done a house warming affair....and given all takers a helicopter ride that might have prevented some of this....start off by trying to be a "good neighbor".

:(

delta3

20th Dec 2004, 17:02

SASLess

You suggest a very important thing. Before claiming that law regulates every thing (works also both ways), one might first be considerate with neighbours.

Law should come in if only if some of them are really unreasonable.
Counting on a lot of sympathy when being confrontational on this one looks like real poor judgement and imho bad for the trade...

Before I flew myself there was a guy (that I know well) that used to hover over my pool, which I really did not like..... I try not to forget that.

delta3

Hughes500

21st Dec 2004, 07:20

Having taught Mr Griffin to fly his machine a few observatios for you.

1. He is not a bad bloke and not unreasonable, but knows what he wants and doed not suffer fools gladly.

2. His hanger was out of view of his and neighbours house until neighbours cut 4 ft off their hedge. Mr G has even sunk the hanger down a bit, although I think this is to get round the law.

3. I spent a day with him last week, looking at, minimising noise, steep approaches and the best way of getting in to his site to cause the least disturbance. Before you ask - away from his house.

4. He shot himself in the foot by using Castle Air boys, they knew little about a 500 and they could only " fix it " after hours and at the weekend. I would not like a 500 starting up 50m from my house 10 to 15 times on a weekend. Very few have a problem with 1 or 2 flights a day.

5. The next door neighbours have already an order served on them in relation to taking photos and videos - apparantly.

6. If Shaun had taken a different tack there would have been less of a problem.

7. A lesson for us all - one has to work with ones neighbours, after all we have to live with them !

Arkroyal

21st Dec 2004, 07:51

but knows what he wants and does not suffer fools gladlySays it all really.

One finds in life that such people are usually fools themselves :yuk:

Heliport

21st Dec 2004, 08:40

Hughes500

Since you're familiar with the location, can you tell us:

Is it true "he positioned his hangar furthest away from his own house and close to his neighbour's house."?

Is it true he put it where "blocked his neighbours' view and kept the view from his own house unobstructed."?

Is it true "When advised that this was inconsiderate and likely to cause problems, he took the view that it was his own land and he could do what he wanted regardless of what they thought."?

BTW, you say he's "not a bad bloke and not unreasonable, but knows what he wants and does not suffer fools gladly."
The MD of the company he sold (quoted in an earlier post) put it in a different way, saying 'He's a hard-nosed businessman who won't let anything get in the way of what he wants to do.'
Some people might think Mr Griffin sounds like the sort of person who's not unreasonable as long as he gets his own way, and that his definition of a fool is anyone who dares to try to stop him.

Heliport

B Sousa

21st Dec 2004, 10:44

Would do my heart good to see some rich guy, take his property in the English Countryside, level all the buildings and make a huge underground complex. Buy a bell 212 with the noisiest rotor system, paint it black and have all his black uniformed security patrolling the perimeter fence. Do only late night or early morning take off and departures from the elevated platform that comes out of the underground complex. Any vehicles that arrive or depart must come in a convoy minimum of three and be also totally black.
This having everything titled under some mysterious corporation registered in the Cayman Islands.
Maybe this would keep the towns buzzing. Where is Robert Ludlum when you really need him....

Flying Lawyer

21st Dec 2004, 14:02

SASless
You don't need me to advise you on the difference between being inconsiderate and being in violation of laws.
All I meant was that operating from private helipads in the UK is difficult enough as it is, and the position of responsible pilots isn't helped by publicity about helicopter owners who behave inconsiderately - regardless of whether or not they are within the law.
I'm not usually sympathetic to people who object to helicopters, but there are times when they have a point. If someone chooses to put his hangar beside his neighbour's house instead of his own, and blocks his neighbour's view rather than his own, I don't blame them for trying to stop him. They may not succeed, but at least they would have tried their best.
In my experience, it's usually better to get the neighbours on side rather than antagonise them. It doesn't always work, but it's always worth trying.

______________________________

Hughes500
I'd advise you to be extremely cautious in your dealings with Mr Griffin.
After falling out with his first instructor, he made numerous allegations against him to the CAA. One of those led to the CAA prosecuting the instructor for minor 'paperwork' offences (ANO Article 115) which had no flight safety implications whatsoever.
Why the CAA prosecuted such trivia is beyond my understanding, but I've long since given up trying to comprehend the CAA's prosecution policy and just work with it - or around it! ;)

Fortunately, the court accepted the FI had made an honest mistake, agreed the offences were trivial, and gave the instructor a Conditional Discharge. (He could have been fined.)

I'm told by a lawyer present in court that Mr Shaun 'not a bad bloke' Griffin not only went to court and watched the instructor being prosecuted, but started shouting out from the public gallery during the defence mitigation and had to be warned he'd be removed if he didn't keep quiet.

I wasn't there, but my source is 100% reliable. I'd planned to represent the Instructor myself - free of charge because he's a good man and because I thought the prosecution was outrageous. I couldn't get there because the case I've been prosecuting for the past couple of months and which I expected to finish last week didn't finish until yesterday.
In stark contrast to the ridiculous prosecution of the instructor, that case wasn't trivial. Link (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/londonnews/articles/15461821?source=Evening%20Standard)

Tudor Owen

Bellthorpe

22nd Dec 2004, 09:14

5. The next door neighbours have already an order served on them in relation to taking photos and videos - apparantly

What does that mean? Is it illegal to take photographs of your neighbour?

In my experience, it\'s usually better to get the neighbours on side rather than antagonise them.

I couldn\'t agree more. I have a helipad at home, and I discussed it with my (very few) neighbours beforehand. Admittedly, they\'re not as close as Mr. Griffin\'s appear to be, but in any case they\'re all on side, and they all quite enjoy movements by me or the various helicopter schools who use it as a navigation / confined area exercise.

Of course, the odd joy flights for neighbours don\'t go astray. They all love to see their properties from the air.

I also discussed it with my shire councillor. He said the council didn\'t give a fig about it.

B47

22nd Dec 2004, 10:01

What a complete fool this guy is. Contrary to 'getting what he wants', idiots like this don't. Instead, they live life looking over their shoulder at neighbours who despise them and they spoil relationships with the locals for their wife and kids.

It's plainly lack of intelligence.

You want to start flying a helo from your property? Think, plot and PLAN it.

I've moved house twice in recent years and had to do just that.

So, to help anyone else tempted to follow Mr Griffin's approach and make things more difficult for the rest of us, here's the idiot's guide.

ONE: Move in first. Keep the machine away. Get known first as someone to be liked.

When you move into a community everyone gets a one line label that neighbours use initially when talking of you to someone else. Make sure yours is 'nice guy, runs a xxx company' or similar. DO'NT let it be 'He's got a helicopter'.

TWO: When you first move your machine in, fly a LITTLE. Avoid any pattern of the same time or day a week. A month or two will do.

THREE: Take as many different approach and departure routes as you can and NEVER directly overfly anyone's house.

FOUR: Take the elders of the village flying. In my case and at the last village, taking one wonderful 80 year old lady (who had never flown in anything, ever), had everyone out in their gardens and right down the village street waving. Bet Mr Griffin would kill for that PR.

FIVE: Offer some use of your machine for free. For example, farmers like to see their fields, neighbours like to see their houses and everyone would like a free photo of their house. This last one happened to me last month and wasn't my idea. I was approached about flying a local amateur photographer, prints available to everyone in the village, donations to the village hall. EVERYONE's happy.

FIVE: Communicate your PASSION for flying and dispel the image that it's an executive toy.

SIX: For heaven's sake BE MODEST.

I don't plot this cynically. People are basically good and if they have fears about noisy machines they don't understand, it's your responsibility to reassure them. You get out of your relationships with neighbours precisely what you put in.

I resent the damage that the Griffin's of this world do to the reputation of helicopters, but in my experience, guys like him won't be flying in ten years time. They'll either have killed themselves with a similarly poor attitude to the discipline of flying, or have moved on to fast bikes or boats. Yes I'm generalising and no I've never met Mr Griffin, but his actions speak very loud. Aviation can do without him.

Hughes500

22nd Dec 2004, 12:46

Heliport

Shaun Griffins land is reverse L shaped, ie Look down the garden, garden L goes down and to the right, looking down the terraced slope ( 3 x 5 ft high terraces) the hanger is situated on the right arm of reverse L. Therefore hanger does not obscure his view. The hanger is situated on the lower terrace making it some 10 to 12 ft below the level of the house. To be fair the hanger is in the best place for all as it is situated behind a hedge. The neighbours cut down 4 ft of the hedge making the hanger more visible ?

If I was putting up a hanger that is where I would put it ! Not out of badness but out of practicality.

Where he has gone wrong is in not consulting his neighbours and starting machine up - late afternoons and weekends doing track and balance. This would upset a jet head let alone a normal neighbour.

I can't see him using the machine a great deal, probably no more than 2 to 3 times a week on average.

Tudor thank you for your advice as always, I will speak as I find ( I am not defending any of his actions). I have found him to be courteous, well mannered, always on time, helpful and very willing to learn and has always paid his bills on time.

Having witnessed him speaking to a deputation of villagers he was all of the above. Perhaps what he has lacked is a bit of sensitivity in his actions

I will willingly answer more questions.

Heliport

22nd Dec 2004, 16:12

Thanks for the reply.

I realise you're in a difficult position as he's a customer, but going by the care you've taken not to antagonise your own neighbours (separate thread) I can't help wonder if you'd really put your hangar/helicopter right next to your neighbours' house, separated only by a hedge, even if it was the best place from your own point of view. ;)

Heliport

SASless

22nd Dec 2004, 16:43

Heliport...

The real question is really...would you base your personal helicopter on your own property knowing it might cause a problem with your neighbors. It isn't a question of law, rights, or privilege....simply a matter of logic as I see it.

He owns the property, there is no law to prevent him from doing what he did, and from the description of the property....he chose the best place possible on his premises.

What we have here is an implementation problem.

If he had been more sensitive to the downside of his decision, and had done a good PR effort, all this might have been averted.

Hughes500

22nd Dec 2004, 17:10

Guys

My persoal feelings on this are : always go carefully, in my situation I have my Parish Council all the landowners around and 99% of the village behind me. This has only come about by being a good and considerate neighbour. Most of all do not kick the arse out of it, no one likes having the perverbial taken and try and keep everyone or more realistic the majority on side. It is surprising what local support can do v officaldom.

Everyone have a happy xmas and a safe flying 2005

Razor61

11th May 2005, 23:47

Click here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/4538233.stm) for the full story.

Vfrpilotpb

12th May 2005, 06:07

Their was quite a big thread on this guy about the late spring last year (2004), seems to be riding roughshod over the locals, and has upset his neighbours from day one!

Not really good if you want to fly your machine from home.

Vfr:suspect:

Hughes500

12th May 2005, 06:53

Shaun Griffin is in no different a position to lots of other owners. Where he has gone wrong was to try and fix the many problems with the machine at weekends / evening times.
Generally he uses the machine on average 3 times a week. Hardly that offensive, the rest of the village does not complain if a chainsaw goes all day.
If Shaun was using the machine everyday and doing numerous take offs and landings then I could see the point.
The best answer to anyone else is to get the locals on side, I did in a recent battle with my local authority, I ended up with The Parish Council voting 6 to 0 in favour with more than 40 letters of support. However I emposed the following restrictions 100 days use, 8am to 8pm, The local authority was happy with this.

Everyone out there please be mindful of your neigbours, be in their position, they will eventually determine whether you get planning permission or hassle ! Take heed from Mr Griffin - he went wrong by doing balance runs / fcu scheduling on Sunday and evenings agianst my advice.
Most of us would not like a H500 to be running up and down on a Sunday afternoon !

Heliport

12th May 2005, 16:58

As Vfrpilotpb said ..... :rolleyes:

helicopter-redeye

12th May 2005, 18:32

Now "Village making Helo's life a misery" WOULD be news ....

:\ :8 h-r

trevelyan

12th May 2005, 20:07

Another neighbour, Mark Gibbons, said: "The aviation exhaust makes the whole village stink like Heathrow airport, which is the last thing you want when you are sitting out in your garden on Sunday afternoon."

I prefer JETA1 to pig $hit any day of the week.

:rolleyes:

md 600 driver

12th May 2005, 20:24

it reminds me of a film i watched a few times

I LIKE THE SMELL OF JET AI IN THE MORNING

STEVE

Simon853

14th May 2005, 11:17

I only wish the Gypos next to my dad's house would buy a helicopter. maybe then the council would be arsed to do something about them. Though *their* lack of planning permission hasn't caused them the hassle this guy's hangar has..

Hmm.. maybe he could compromise to reduce the noise level by half by doing engine-off auto landings? ;)

Si

2Sticks

16th Dec 2005, 20:11

A few nights ago, I was surprised to see Mr Griffin featured in a bad light on a UK TV show called 'Neighbours from Hell'. As you might imagine, the media had a field day with this one and it really didn't do the helicopter owning fraternity any good at all. There's certainly a moral in this: Make sure you get your neighbours on side before you start moving your heli in with you - as has far more eloquently been explained before.:sad:

2 Sticks

Hairyplane

17th Dec 2005, 16:56

Interesting stuff.

I would like to read the full ministerial reply in the House of Lords 2002. Anybody out there able to point me in the right direction?

I took advice before learning to fly the heli and deciding to operate it from home. I operate from the forecourt of my private garages directly behind the house ie 'within the curtilage'. My hangar dimensions conform to 'permitted development.'

I have spoken to my neighbours and only 1 farmer - who presumably is 100 times more upset by the frequent low flying military jets, Hercs, Chinooks etc than my 44 ( flying out at no less than 500 ft above his farm on the climbout) - has asked me to modify my flightpath and also asked if I had some grazing for him.

'No problem, and yes I can offer you 12 acres of grazing. I dont want any money for it either'.

Job done.

Another neighbour was very supportive. 'Thanks for speaking to me about it - no problem. Would you like a brace of ducks and could I ask you to take my Grandson and I for a flight over Christmas?'

Job done again.

Moral - Follow the advice of my fellow posters and keep your neighbours sweet!

Hairyplane

Brilliant Stuff

17th Dec 2005, 17:06

I had the same experience, where people were supposedly complaining and when I offered free flights all the complaints stopped and only a couple of children from the local "estate" wanted a ride .

Sweeeeeeet.

muffin

17th Dec 2005, 19:43

Absolutely the right way to manage it HP. I have a standing open offer to anybody in the village to give them a ride. The guy who owns most of the fields around also uses my land for free grazing.
Anybody who wants an aerial photoshot of their house is welcome to come up with their camera and take it themselves.
The DHFS at Shawbury use my field for practice diversions and all the village kids love it - so do the adults.

When local political issues arise like people applying for planning permission, I keep strictly neutral and never take sides.

It is all about good PR and keeping friends with all the locals.

evangalist

21st Jan 2006, 11:45

Lets get a few facts straight.

1) I know Mr Griffin and I've also got to know his neighbours. They did not, as has been suggested (no doubt based on a lie told by Griffin) chop 4ft off the top of their hedge. Why would they? So that they could see yet more of the hangar? I've seen estate agents photographs of the property when the neighbours bought it and the hedge is exactly the same height as when the hangar was put up.

2) He said the neighbours had been prosecuted for filming him. This is also a lie. Why would ITV show their footage on national telivision if it was illegal to take photo' of him from inside their property. What absolute rubbish!

This guy cannot be trusted. He does no good for responsible helicopter owners. It's about time someone told him.

Helipolarbear

21st Jan 2006, 19:55

I wonder if all this complaining about noise and smell would continue after the first Air Ambulance /HEMS rescue saved the life of one of the villagers.
Technology and progress is eating up the lovely countryside. The begrudgers are as militant as the heli's are noisy......and that status quo will remain for some time!:cool:
All a load of nonsense. Next thing will be barring of Harley Davidson Sportsters....but allowing an old BSA to roam around...after all it is British....Villagers get used to it....noise is part of life.....envy and jealousy is as well. As for the sensitive individuals who find the noise horrifying....wear some earplugs for 2 minutes...might even protect your very clean ears!!!!

Hughes500

21st Jan 2006, 21:18

Evangalist
In what context do you know Mr Griffin ?

SASless

21st Jan 2006, 22:09

Evan,

Perhaps my grade school math and understanding of physics was contained in some of the millions of brain cells I have destroyed by means of excessive alcohol consumption however....it seems to me that one cuts four feet off a six foot hedge at two feet above the root line. I fail to see where a helicopter could hardly be necessary for that evolution. Give me a pair of shears and the next time I am crawling home from down the pub and I can demonstrate how that is done....especially since it would be at eye height at that time. It might help to have some extra light since I usually get into that condition after leaving the pub or Whirl's place.

secret_squirrel

22nd Jan 2006, 00:40

A little late in the thread, but never was too quick off the mark. Xenophobic pricks! The Cornish are a bunch of whinging twits that are so narrow minded and unnecessarily vocal about all things pertaining to the beautiful country (sic) of Cornwall. God forbid anyone have the presence of mind to have a system of beating the archaic roads system with it’s twenty mile tail backs on the A30. Having spent days in traffic jams in Cornwall, I am jealous that I can’t afford my own helicopter to get about. Good luck to you, and all the best with beating the Cornish County Councillors who think a foreign holiday is a two week spell in Plymouth (the same people who levied the taxes on pax passing through the shed that is Newquay Airport).
http://db.cornwall.gov.uk/members/MeDet.asp?me=228 Nothing personal.

Vfrpilotpb

22nd Jan 2006, 09:10

SS,
Somehow I feel you are not really grasping the nettle with this long running saga regarding Mr Griffin.
If you had seen the original pictures you may see things in the perspective of how this guy has gone about his task, and that was clearly to be able to use his Heli from home, but in so doing he placed an ungainly looking building at the farthest point from his house and view, but directly in the full view of his neighbours, now if you are capable of seeing things in that context at your house location you may begin to see why the neighbours kicked off.

And as you can see, the general consensus of opinion on this subject through out this thread is that Mr Griffin has not really endeared himself to his neighbours or to the position of being reasonable, he has effectively made the title Helicopter Pilot able to be seen as non caring, when in fact many of us do care what the neighbours think about us landing at home!!

Vfr

Hughes500

22nd Jan 2006, 19:04

VFR

Interestingly after losing Shaun Griffin has now moved his hanger closer to his neighbours and in full view of his back window ! This was done after the planning inspectorate forced him to move it. Seems ironic that the neighbours complain and the planning people make you move it closer ! All to do with curtlige rights.
Actually defies all logic when it could have been put at the bottom of a field well out of view of everyone and a good 100m away. If only Common Sense prevailed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Heliport

22nd Jan 2006, 21:10

Common sense by whom? :confused:

Vfrpilotpb

5th Feb 2006, 11:42

Quite possibly Mr Griffin could become proficient at Giant Slalom, if thats the case!!;)

Vfr

evangalist

18th Jul 2006, 12:52

Interestingly, after moving the hangar he has been told to move it again. The place he moved it to was actually much closer to his own property than the neighbours and if you've seen the photo's you'll understand what a lovely view he now has of his green bubble barn. Anyway he has to move it again, even closer to his property.
When is this guy going to get the message? :ugh:

VFR

Interestingly after losing Shaun Griffin has now moved his hanger closer to his neighbours and in full view of his back window ! This was done after the planning inspectorate forced him to move it. Seems ironic that the neighbours complain and the planning people make you move it closer ! All to do with curtlige rights.
Actually defies all logic when it could have been put at the bottom of a field well out of view of everyone and a good 100m away. If only Common Sense prevailed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Pan Pan Splash

18th Jul 2006, 13:20

Has anyone told Mr G how to make a small fortune out of rotary wing aviation???

i.e. Start with a large one.

Hughes500

18th Jul 2006, 13:51

While Mr G has upset his neighbours he is looking at moving. The council is after blood and Mr G does not want to invest 30k in defending himself, dispite now being in the curtlige of his house

scooter boy

18th Jul 2006, 15:49

I live less than 10nm from the village in question (Trewin in Cornwall) but do not know the individulas concerned. I am very lucky in that I have my R44 based in a refurbished barn in the curtilege of my farmhouse (fantastic to be able to fly from home avoiding the car completely in the summer).

There is a lot of common sense expressed in this thread about not irritating the locals - free flights go down a treat and are never usually accepted as free as local pride usually means that you will get hay cut and baled, hedges cut, fish or poultry in exchange. All the other stuff about avoiding directly overflying local houses/ varying the route/ asking peoples opinion prior to arriving by air is essential prior to producing the chopper.

My closest neighbours are farmers/builders and live half a mile away - they helped me to refurbish the barn in preparation for the arrival of my R22. They talked to the next neighbour who talked to the next and a feelgood ripple preceded and preempted any complaints.
We have been extremely lucky as far as neighbours are concerned and I was genuinely surprised when I read this string for the first time today that this had happened so close to home in Cornwall.

Rural bliss really does exist - it just needs a little work from time to time.:)