Instructed hours. Can you log them?

[Markgil]

Please forgive my ignorance.

For those instructors who are trying to build thier hours up to 700, do the hours they are instucting count in thier log books?

Cheers

Mark

[eyeinthesky]

Unless you do it for the love of instructing there wouldn't be lot of point if they didn't, would there?

Remember every flight has to have a Captain. You may recall from your student pilot days that you logged your dual time as P/UT. Guess who logged the time as P1?

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"Take-off is optional, Landing is mandatory"

[Markgil]

Now then,

If I had a share in an aircraft and intended to do say 100-150 hours in it over the next year, paying for the feul etc and an instructor, looking to build hours, was sitting in the other seat, would the building of hours be considered "Valuble Consideration" and therfore be prohibited if the C of A was in the private category?

['I' in the sky]

Why would you want an instructor with you for 100 to 150 hours ?

I think if you own the plane you can legitimately pay a commercial pilot to fly it for you or with you. If he is also an instructor then you can also log PUT but why would would you want all that extra PUT. I don't think you could get away with so much P1/S. Check but that's what I think.

[This message has been edited by 'I' in the sky (edited 22 March 2001).]

[TooHotToFly]

If you are a legitimate owner of the aircraft, (no more than 20 shares I think), you can hire an instructor to teach you on your plane even if it is on a private C of A. There is no way you could log the time as P1/s, so either he logs it P1 and you log it PUT or you log it P1 and he doesn't log anything.

There's nothing wrong with having several hundred hours of PUT but it is a bit unorthodox.

[Markgil]

Thanks for your replies to my postings guys,

The reason I would like to have an instructor in the aircraft with me for 100-150 hours would be to instruct me! I'm an inexperienced flyer but have an opportunity to buy a share in a plane for a reasonable price. Rather than tootle around in it on my tod I would prefer to gain further training, ratings etc and make myself into a better pilot. In the future possibly becoming an instructor myself and then who knows what?

I checked with the CAA and a man there told me that it is now illeagle to recieve instruction in an aircraft with a Private C of A for "Valuble Consideration", with the exception being conversion onto type or revalidation! If there is no valuble consideration .... well then .... it's leagle to recieve instruction?

The thinking behind my last posting was that the instructor looking to build thier hours could do so for nothing and I would gain valuble instruction.....keeping costs down for both of us. There are presumably better ways of doing it ... it was just a thought!

Cheers

Mark

[Noggin]

Before you ask the CAA questions you need to consider those questions carefully or you may get the wrong answer.

For example, if you own an aeroplane you may pay an instructor for teaching you on your own or your spouses privtate cat aeroplane. However, if the aeroplane is owned by a group of people then you may not pay the instructor.

The reasoning is this: Money may not change hands for the purpose of a private flight. If you are in a group, money changes hands within the group for the purposes of the flights in that aircraft, that is permitted in Art 130. If you own the aircraft yourself then the same dispensation may be granted once, to allow you to pay an instructor, but in the case of a group owned aircraft, money would then change hands twice which is not permitted. The one exception is that you can pay an instructor or examiner for a check flight or test required for licence revalidation.

If you receive instruction you can only log the flight as PUT (Dual) which does not really count towards anything.



[This message has been edited by Noggin (edited 23 March 2001).]

[TooHotToFly]

noggin - I've read the relevant AIC on this (can't remember which number) and this seems to imply that even if it a soley owned aircraft you can only pay for instruction given to add a rating to your licence or for tests, revalidations etc. i.e. not for either PPL or CPL instruction. Is that the way you read it?

Of course, even if that is the case, there's nothing to stop an instructor teaching you on your own aircraft for free and then charging you £1000 for 1 flight in a plane on a public C of A.

[Noggin]

It has always been possible to instruct for remuneration on a Private Cat Aeroplane provided it is not Group owned. The AIC you refer to is to permit the conduct of tests and prof checks on "Group Owned" aeroplanes and therefore does not address the issue of individually owned aeroplanes that has always been possible.