Thinking of a GPS...

[RichyRich]

Hi all

I'm toying with the idea of catching up a little with the 21st century, and splashing out on a handheld GPS. The planes I rent aren't fitted with any.

So, which one did you get, why, and how much of the millions of features do you really use?

I'm looking at the Garmin 196, mostly for its screen size (as compared to the GPS III Pilot), and of course also 'cos it's a little cheaper than the colour ones. Any good? Worth the pile of dosh that they want for it?

RR

[Flyin'Dutch']

When the 195 was the biggest unit you could buy I was given it for my birthday and I enjoyed using it.

However since I flew with a III some time ago I think I would have been happy with that as I really only need a GPS for backup for bimbling (the aircraft I use for going places have panel mounted GPSs)

The main drawback of the 195/295/296 is the size of the thing and the associated need for lotsa batteries/powerleads etc.

But ultimately it is a balance only you can strike!

Have fun

FD

[englishal]

I recently bough a bluetooth Ipaq / Navman combo, and its brilliant. The GPS unit has a 10 hr battery life on a couple of AAAs, and the battery life of the Ipaq was sufficient to drive all the way to Le Mans without charging (it reports 6 hr battery life). You can get an expansion jacket which contains a second battery if you want, or power it from the 12v socket. On the Ipaq I have Memory Map with the UK charts, as well as Anywhere Map (EFIS type display) which I use in the states, and I am seriously impressed.

My mate bought a 295 for around £1000, and although it is an excellend GPS, it is large, eats batteries, requires an external antenna mounted in the cockpit window. I just stick the GPS in the window using its suction mounting, and you can use the IPAQ anywhere in the cockpit. I've got a windshield mount, but equally you could stick a bit of velcro to the back and stick it to you kneeboard. The screen on the Ipaq is great, visible in direct sunlight, which was a problem I found with older PocketPCs.

I personally wouldn't buy a "dedicated" handheld aviation GPS for the reason that its very easy to update the software on the Ipaq, its cheaper than many GPS units (at around £500-£600 all in)........

Just my view!

Cheers
EA:D

[Kolibear]

With the dollar rate being so high, now is a good time to get a GPS.

I think that the Pilot 3 is being superceded, I've had to order one and its on a 2-3 month lead time, but the price is less than £300, nearly £100 down since this time last year.

[mad_jock]

Just a word of warning about sticking your GPS ontop. It can affect the compass which could lead to a nasty suprise.

We spotted this on monday in a GA when the track displayed was 60degs out from the DI when set off the compass.

MJ

[RichyRich]

EA: I have a Navman sleeve for my iPaq, but have been seriously disappointed with its performance in a car. I'll check out Anywhere Map though (never heard of it until now). Have you tried PocketFMS at all?

Do you guys use most of the functionality provided by a GPS, or is it a moving map only?

RR

[Flyin'Dutch']

Not tried the 296 yet but even on the 295 I find that I am using functionality more than the moving map.

It is only on the MX20 panel mount that you can use the map truly as a map.

FD

[alanw]

I originally had a Garmin 92 - very basic, like the Garmin III

I then added Memory Map and a GPS sleeve to my IPAQ - I have a different view about this - it's fantastic for route planning, but I found it is not user friendly in the cockpit - the display is not as clear in bright light, you have to use a stylus or leave finger prints to make changes etc. You certainly don't want to change your route plan mid flight.

I have recently bought a Lowrance Airmap 500. About the same size as the Garmin III it comes with all the accessories, so the price is the actual price - less than £400. Bigger display and lots more features. Easy to use, easy to program - uses 2 AA batteries that last forever and although it comes with an external aerial it is happy with the inbuilt aerial on the yoke mount on a PA28. Apart from the map display (which you can add ground features to) it has a decent CDI display and a unique airfield approach view which shows the runways orientated to the way you are approaching the field.

It all depends on how you plan to use it and what you expect of it in the end - we're all different after all!

[englishal]

EA: I have a Navman sleeve for my iPaq, but have been seriously disappointed with its performance in a car
I use a Navman 4410, stuck in the window, and I was well impressed with the accuracy. Even using their SmartST road software the GPS is accurate enough to tell you when to exit the roundabout. I've used it with memory map, but will try pocket FMS...

Cheers
EA

[Aim Far]

It also depends where you're going to use the GPS. If you want to use the IPAQ outside your local bit of the UK or in Europe, then memorymap software or Jepp digital maps are going to set you back a fair whack. Even if you use donation programs like PocketFMS, you are still going to have to upload the right bits of map into the IPAQ which could be a pain. The 196 has all of Europe already loaded (and further afield too). That's what clinched it for me.

[Ken Wells]

Just bought a 196 on e-bay £400 all the gear great

If you do buy on e-bay though make sure it is not an american GPS as ther software will be USA not Europe:E

[left_hand_drive]

I use an iPAQ PocketPC with a Rikaline bluetooth GPS and cannot rate it highly enough. The memory map software is very good and has never been any trouble although I still keep a navlog for all flights (just in case).

It makes answering passengers questions on "what's that place called?" much easier, just press a button to change map scale to Ordnance Survey and hey presto. Changing your route mid-flight isn't too tricky but could be made easier. Saying that, it isn't rocket science and doesn't require any more head-down time than if you were re-plotting on your half mill chart.

I also use the iPAQ for the flightcalc software which makes the flight planning much easier and saves wear and tear on the whizz wheel which sits redundant in the flight case.

Battery life is excellent and I haven't had any trouble with not being able to view the screen on sunny days even when wearing sunglasses.

The road software TomTom is also excellent and you can usually get this bundled in with your GPS if you're lucky.

lhd

[RichyRich]

Ken, you lucky devil. I've looked a few times at ebay, and had nothing come up. I'll try again...

[long final]

I think the 196 is a great bit of kit, (Unfortunately bought it just before the 296 launch) but I am tempted to get a ipaq bluetooth system just to remove the hassle of the aerial.

Wouldn't it be nice if Garmin could produce a bluetooth add on to the existing kit.

[strake]

I use a Garmin III ( Nav) and iPaq (half or quarter mil map) which are great.

Problem is trying to find proper mounting. I'm currently using a "homebuild hybrid" which is the base of the Garmin yoke mount and a car phone/gps mount bolted together. It's rather Heath-Robinson as it's a bit top-heavy and sort of sways around in turbulence....

Any mounting suggestions ( for the sat-nav!) gratefully received.

[KCDW]

This will probably sound stupid, but this topic has got to be one of the hardest purchasing decisions I have had to make!!

I have a great bluetooth IPAQ 2215, crying out to be used to max capacity, and the prospect of getting a GPS Road Nav package like Tom Tom, and reusing it with PocketFMS and/or MemoryMap for air nav, seems at times to be a no brainer.

Then I check the forums, and there are as many people not happy with the mounts, the glare, the fact that it is too fiddly to properly use mid air, the complex downloads required, suspect bluetooth connections, etc, and I back off, and consider the Garmin Pilot 3, and a £10 road atlas....

Price of both options seems to be about the same: £300-£400.

Anyone out there with an argument that will make my mind up once and for all?

Indecisive of Kent

[drauk]

KCDW, it might not really make up your mind but...

Screen readability and bluetooth connections are a non-issue in my experience. If it's bright you turn the backlight off and it works just fine (not fantastic, but definitely workable) and if it's dull you put the back light on. I've never had a single bluetooth connection problem after many hours of use.

Mounts are slightly trickier, but a good quality suction cup will do if you aren't up for making something out of bits and bobs.

At the end of the day, despite having a bucket load of this kind of kit laying around I tend to use a dedicated Garmin GPS (the 196 in my case). I find it more reliable (never crashes), the battery life is better, the plug-in power lead works with a 28V system, the buttons work better in rough air, etc.

MemoryMap with CAA charts is nice, but not very good for IFR flight. AnywhereMap would be great if it had a decent database (it's good in the US where they do have). None of the other pieces of software I've tried have proven to be reliable or stable for me on various ipaqs.

So my choice is a dedicated Garmin. If you want road navigation then buy TomTom (software only, about a hundred quid) and a lead to link your ipaq to the Garmin (about 20 quid). It's a bit of a fag having to have both units in the car, but it'll work if you don't want to have to buy a GPS just for in-car navigation.

[KCDW]

Thanks for this Drauk, very helpful.

I do note that a few people seem to revert to dedicated GPS units when they have a choice of both, which implies that cockpit usability is better. 1 question:

How do you rig up the Garmin handheld in the cockpit? I note the dedicated rigs are quite dear. Or do you just keep it to hand?

The clincher for me may well be the cable connection from the Garmin to the Ipaq which would obviate the need for buying a dedicated GPS for road use. Didn't know about that. I'll investigate...

[dublinpilot]

KCDW

I find my Dell Axim hard to read in bright sunlight. It's not as bad when I take off the screen protector, but I prefer to leave it on.

It's fine for "following the line" and you can see your waypoints no problem, but I wouldn't be trying to read speeds and eta too often. It's a sunglasses off, hand over the screen and eyes close to the screen job on a sunny day.

Having said that you costs might be a bit off. You already have the PDA, so all you need is a gps. I got one on ebay for €100 new. (It's a cable job, not BT). That's about £65stg.

Ebay GPS (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4668&item=5706866916&rd=1)

Mounting is a further cost too.

As for PocketFMS which you mentioned, I find it very good as a moving map. Not the best for fiddling with in the air though.

dp

[S-Works]

I have the new Garmin 296 and it is truly stunning. Use that along with my GNS430 panel mount. Also very handing for moving around the vast array of aircraft I fly.

The 196 was/is amazing but the 296 knocks the socks of it. I have been through a fair few units, started with the Garmin Pilot III then the 295 then the 196 and now the 296. They have all been superb value for money in there own right and each product just builds on the the strengths of the previous model with the weakness being hammered out with each new version.

A very satisfied Garmin customer!

B-X

[IO540]

KCDW

I have a plane with a top end panel mounted GPS etc but have been playing around with a PDA for use as a backup GPS in case of a total electrical failure.

Presently the backup is a Skymap 2 (monochrome, low-res screen) aviation GPS in a bag, but one can get a Toshiba E800 with a 640x480 display which beats any piece of avionics for display quality. I am using a bluetooth GPS receiver with the PDA, and the PDA is running OziExplorer. It is a great solution if you can get the CAA (or whatever) charts scanned into big TIFF files.

But...

If the GPS is turned off/on the PDA doesn't reliably lock back on, and doesn't make it clear, either!!

If the PDA is turned off/on, likewise.

It is possible to get the PDA into a state where is shows you about 20 miles away. This is obviously completely unacceptable. The cure is to reload the map file!!

One has to merely touch the PDA touch screen where there are some "buttons" and the thing responds to the button press and of course does something unwanted.

So I think that PDAs are OK if you set them up at the start of a flight, check for correct operation then, and not touch them. They are probably good, with non-aviation maps, for passengers to look at so they can see in familiar terms where they are.

It's a real shame because the promise is there; aviation GPSs use very dated technology. But the products are too flimsy and the software has not been written with pilots in mind. For example it would be trivial to offer an option to completely disable the touch screen.

For real navigation, I would never use a PDA as my only GPS. I would get a moving map aviation GPS, current-design. Not e.g. the Garmin 195 which is widely sold but is a 10 year old design.

And get a rooftop aerial fitted if you can.

[ChrisVJ]

After weeks looking at every conceivble combination on the Interenet I spent hours at Sun and Fun looking at Garmin, Lowrace and other units. Jeez some of theose big screen jobs are clever, and pretty too. My wife wasn't interested because they all come in black case, don't any of these guys ever learn?

Well I'm a sucker for a deal so in the end I plumped for an Airmap 1000 because it was going about $150US under regular street price. It was my choice anyway but I would have left it a couple of months more and then bought over the Inet.

It was my choice mainly for its huge screen, my cockpit is about as bright as can be (Searey, nearly as greenhouse as a glider) but it is always easily readable, I like its intuitive controls, one day soon I'll get round to the manual, Easy loading of data bases (just plug in a standard SD card), easy PC software and it usually sets up just walking arojund my deck.

Roadmap databases are available but generally I prefer maps in the car.

I liked the colour displays on the Garmin products but the screens were much smaller and considerably more expensive. So far I am very pleased with the Airmark.