Lack Of Nav Aids In East Anglia

[VFE]

Hi folks,

Anyone else get slightly miffed at the lack of a VOR or two in the (mainly north) east anglia region? Flying from Peterborough one finds that in order to stay within easy reach of a nav aid incase one gets lost or loses VFR temporarily one has to go west towards Daventry etc. Not happy.

Thoughts?

VFE.

[Flyin'Dutch']

Typical East Anglian obviously!

Move into the 20th century and get electric light, cars and a GPS!

:D

FD

[Keef]

This be Norfik and Suffik. Once you get to Essex, there's CLN and LAM (and the odd NDB too if you like 40s technology).

I think the idea in sugarbeetland is to look out of the window, and if there's nothing visible, to rely on your IFR-approved GNS530.

"Works for me".

[VFE]

Lend me your GPS and I'll stop moaning! ;)

VFE.

[TonyR]

Where is East Anglia?

Is that the small Island of the coast of north Wales?


or is it that flat bit of land to the east where they all fly low and look at road signs

[fireflybob]

There are however quite a few military TACANS around so you can utilise the DME element of such facilities (assuming you have DME!).

OK you don't get any bearing info but you can still get a good fix from a couple of suitable TACANS - but bear in mind there are often two positions where 2 DME arcs intersect in this case!

[Gertrude the Wombat]

they all fly low and look at road signs Yeah, that mostly works.I think the idea in sugarbeetland is to look out of the window, and if there's nothing visible Fing is, it really does help if you know which crops are grown in which fields, and understand the seasons. So at one time of year, there are certain recognisable patterns of yellow fields (which aren't on the map, you just have to learn them), and at other times of year there are certain recognisable patterns of flooded fields (which aren't on the map, you just have to learn them), and so on.

Or you could just fly around until you see some sort of ditch or drain ... whoops, most of them aren't on the map ... or eventually you'll find a railway line, which is a much better bet as we ain't got too many of them.

Or, just fly during the week and get a radar service from the military.

[smallpilot]

VFE - navaids are great, but as someone who learnt in E.Anglia and flies around it regularly I'm glad I was taught VFR + old fashioned nav etc.
I dont have a GPS but am happy to fly round E.Anglia. By the way, mention to the guys at Lakenheath + Norwich - excellent service from both :ok:

[Keef]

Cambridge is easy. Loads of distinctive features. The bit I found hard was the bit in the area between Cambridge, Ipswich, Norwich, and Lynn, and then the flat bit of Lincolnshire.

Fortunately, last time I flew there, I had an octogenarian 388th BG pilot in the RHS (on a memorial visit to Knettishall). He recognised every field, crossroads, WW2 airfield, etc - and told me the CO's name, what aircraft and which Group flew from there, and so on. He also told me, when there wasn't much else to look at, that when I started up he noticed that the GPS database was out of date by one day.

So it's easy.

[niknak]

OK, so there you are happily doing your own thing and you suddenly realise you're "temporarily unsure of your position".

Well, even at 1500ft in the Peterborough area you should be able to recieve the BKY, OTR, DTY and CLN VORs, as well as the Fenland (FNL) NDB which helpfully, is usually transmitting at twice it's notified output.

However, if you can't, and just let us (ATC) know and we'll help you out.

It's what we're their for.

[VFE]

All good information folks, please keep your experiences coming.

Not used to VFR'ing it around East Anglia as most of my private flying has been done in Spain, USA, southern England and Yorkshire. Most recent flying has all been IFR so going back to basics is something I'm just as much keen as well as apprehensive about. Was not aware of a Fenland NDB (not had chance to study the VFR 1:500'000 chart for southern England yet) so shall bare that one in mind for future reference.

Anyone know off hand the DOC's of OTR, DVY and CLN? For some reason my ais.org sign-on is not being recognised!

Thanks folks,

VFE.

[Flyin'Dutch']

And East Anglia ain't that big either!

Nik nak, just to warn you, intend to come your way soon at a date tbd, so brace yourselves at Norwich!

;)

FD

[fireflybob]

Reminds me of when a student got lost on a cross country to Tuxford and Sleaford in a Chipmunk from Tollerton in about 1965. He had radio and somebody asked him what he could see - "A big river" was the reply - on further investigation it turned out to be the Wash with the tide out!

[stiknruda]

As most of my trips either start or terminate in EA, I must confess that the paucity of VORs has never worried me.

Lots of v obvious landmarks, even in the flatter bits.

Norwich, L'heath are both v helpful, even to someone who flies negative parrot.;)

Stik

[Whirlygig]

I also recently learned to fly from Norwich and what makes navigation so easy is that from Diss you can see Ipswich, Lowestoft, the coast. Haven't got GPS; not sure what I woud want it for. Taking the A47 into either south east or south west boundary of airfield - easy. I have to do that in case I mistake Coltishall for Norwich.

East Anglia is surrounded by coast, therefore you can never get too lost; maybe just temporarily unsure of your position.

Cheers

Whirlygig

[Whirlybird]

Now look guys (and gals), you don't need to know where you are absolutely every minute of the flight. If you knew where you were five minutes ago, and the heading you were using was working...just keep flying. Almost guaranteed that within another five minutes you'll see a town, a coastline, or one of those long strips of water they have over there which ARE marked on the charts. I've only flown in East Anglia a couple of times, but I didn't even bother to switch on the GPS. It's easy. if you can't do it with your map and compass....go get some practice!

[whatunion]

didnt someone build loads of airfields in east anglia, make great navigational features, if you can map read

[J.A.F.O.]

On Friday evening I could see Ely Cathedral, Sizewell Power Station and Canary Wharf; so I didn't worry too much about VORs.

[boomerangben]

There are enough navaids around East Anglia - I did my IR at Norwich. 20 hours flying in the middle of summer and didn't see the ground once.

VFE,

I'm sorry if I've missed something in your previous posts, but something doesn't seem to add up here. You say that you have not yet studied a half mil of the area and yet you admit to have being flying there? Can I suggest that you study the chart and then remember to take it with you? It will make VFR nav much easier := :=

[VFE]

Hehehehe! Almost caught me out there boomerangben but not quite.....

My first flight in East Anglia was a check out with the flying club lasting one hour which involved flying in local vacinity with an instructor. Second time I flew was alone and I simply flew over my house and local boozer in Peterborough then back again. Not much call for a half mil there then but carried one nonetheless which had been loaned by the flying club (they had sold out). At that time I did not examine the entire chart for small detail apart from the section I intended to fly over which was visibile from the airfield.

A proper look for me personally means a good sit down in the evening over a nice cuppa Yorkshire Tea. I now have my VFR 1:500'000 chart and am looking forward to planning my next adventure. :D

Thanks for all the input folks.

VFE.

[Whirlygig]

didnt someone build loads of airfields in east anglia,

Yes, and bizarrely, I found that harder since they all look the same. Most of them are in the same orientation and have turkey sheds built on them.

Cheers

Whirlygig

[Sultan Ismail]

Navaids in East Anglia?

As someone has pointed out, quite a few airfields have been built there, and for the record an extended circuit around Cambridge will take you over Waterbeach, Oakington, Bourn, Bassingbourne, Duxford, mebbe even Six Mile Bottom.

To give you an idea of distance most of these airfields were accessible from Cambridge to a youngster on a bicycle for "Battle of Britain" open days.

Heaven forbid if VFE went flying in South Africa, my PPL Navex lasting 2 hours 40 minutes, went over 3 towns, because in 2 hours 40 minutes that's all we could find. For the South African brigade the route was Cradock - Colesburg - De Aar - Cradock.

There were no such things as Navaids, and there probably aren't now, but as long as you recognised "Compassberg" and "Martha and Mary" you were pretty safe in the Cape Province.

[FNG]

Easy to navigate if you look for the smoke coming from the barbeque next to Stiknruda's strip (Cheers, Stik)

Perhaps it's just familiarity with the area, but I find the visual features in East Anglia pretty useful (except over parts of the fens). Most of the airfields, active or disused, have two or three good confirmatory features to allow positive identification, and the large roads and railways are distinctive if only by virtue of their rarity.

[boomerangben]

VFE,

Glad you took my post in the humour that was intended. Nearly didn't post it for fear of being rounded on by an overly sensitive sort.

Like the idea of studying a chart with a cup of Yorkshire Tea. Spent many an hour doing that myself. Even better is to be served Yorkshire tea whilst actually using the chart, although that doesn't happen very often.

I find that if you're not moving very quickly (Lees than about 110kts), a quarter mil is very useful for VFR nav.

[formationfoto]

FNG
That wasn't smoke it was steam! (or at least it was when I looked - not a smoked piece of carnivore grub to be found). My passenger insisted on being back on duty at Seething so I had to depart.

But Stik plse thank that nice lady for allowing us to bust her party and your neighbours for not shooting us down. Saw the Slingsby barelling from my house when I got home and the Pitts cavorting afterwards. I guess I left too early.

To the point of this thread - the eastern and northern parts of east Anglia don't want navaids. They have only just been forced to put in roads. The last thing they want is people flying those unnatural airoplane things above their heads!.

Actually in my part of the world the navaids are great - water below you you are too far north or east, few major roads and rail lines so you can't get the wrong one, and most of the airfields are friendly and they know where they are so you can always pop in and say hello.

[FNG]

formationfoto, I must have just missed you. Was that you departing the strip as I was downwind? Was there a Slingsby in as well? I went and barrel rolled a black and yellow Bulldog a bit between the strip and Hardwick, at about six-ish, shortly before the red Pitts went off. Tons of meaty snacks available, and some very jolly and welcoming inebriated ladies of Stik's acquaintance, but I couldn't stay long as North Weald closes so unsportingly early.

[TheKentishFledgling]

You just arrange to meet your mate in the purple Pitts, then follow him :p

tKF

[stiknruda]

FF - you left far too early, we hadn't even opened the second firkin of Adnams!

FNG - Inebriated ladies - no my learned friend, they were s41tfaced! Though you did rather cause a commotion in your contour hugging black romper suit, I do believe that one of the more forward ladies of my acquaintance even offered you a tour of the bedrooms!

In an aside - I think I had 8 arrivals and departures excluding my quick sortie to aerobat at a country fayre. Some of the departures were rather spirited and most were aerobatic.

On Monday morning - a neighbour delivered a letter..... and my heart sank as I assumed that it was a complaint. Very pleased to read it and find out that they'd like me to take their son flying (looping the loop) for his birthday.

Relief was palpable!

Maybe do it again next year.

Stik

[FNG]

Glad I escaped with my morals intact. Please do it again, Stik. What with your do and the do up at Burnham, it was a most excellent flying and barbee weekend.

[futurshox]

Excuse me pinching this thread, but seeing as you're all East Anglia based.... if anyone is wanting beer/barbie/camping etc this weekend, there is plenty going on at Rougham Airfield in Suffolk. It's the Wings, Wheels & Steam country fair and fly-in, to which you'd all be most welcome.

Rougham Airfield (http://www.roughamairfield.org)