Instructing on N-reg aircraft

[eyeinthesky]

Like many people, I have an FAA licence which hangs on the back of my UK PPL (which is all I had at the time). It states that it is valid in accordance with the limitations on my UK Licence. That UK licence is now a CPL/IR with instructor ratings. Does that mean that I can also now do instruction or conversion training on N Reg a/c in the UK?. I think it doesn't but would appreciate confirmation / comments.

------------------
"Take-off is optional, Landing is mandatory"

[Noggin]

Presumably you are a UK FI. In which case you can instruct on an N Reg aircraft in the UK, on your UK licence but not outside the UK. You cannot be remunerated unless you obtain the permission of the DETR to conduct aerial work in a foreign registered aeroplane.

In order to instruct under your FAA licence it would have to be Commercial with a CFI rating. From the sound of it it is Private, the validity is based upon your UK licence, not the privileges.

[rolling circle]

You are quite correct, it doesn't.

ANO Article 21(3) states:

Subject as aforesaid, a person shall not act as as a member of the flight crew required by or under this Order to be carried in an aircraft registered in a country other than the United Kingdom unless:

(a) in the case of an aircraft flying for the purpose of public transport or aerial work, he is the holder of an appropriate licence granted or rendered valid under the law of the country in which the aircraft is registered or the State of the operator....

Instructing is aerial work and, therefore, you need a licence and rating granted or rendered valid in the USA ('State of the operator' refers to Public Transport). What you have is a piece of card granting you Private Pilot privileges on the strength of your UK licence, whatever it may be, and subject to any limitations on that licence (e.g. as or with co-pilot, etc.). To instruct on an 'N' registered aircraft you would need to hold FAA Commercial, Instrument and Instructor cerificates.

Also, to carry out aerial work in a foreign registered aircraft in UK airspace you need permission from the DETR.

[eyeinthesky]

Thanks for the replies. They seem to contradict each other, however. Assuming I don't want remuneration, can I instruct (not for the grant of a licence but for example for differences training) on an N reg a/c in UK airspace only? If the other guy also has an FAA PPL based upon his UK PPL who is PIC?

My FAA Airman's certificate was issued when I had a UK PPL with Night, Twin and IMC ratings.

Thanks for the info.

------------------
"Take-off is optional, Landing is mandatory"

[rolling circle]

Having instructed on 'N' reg aircraft, both in the UK and the USA, both for licences and type ratings and having dealt extensively with the DETR and the CAA on the matter, my information is NO - you may not, legally, instruct on an 'N' registered aircraft in UK airspace without the appropriate FAA certification.

My information is that, irrespective of whether you are remunerated or not, flight instruction is considered, in law, as aerial work.

Whether you prefer to accept my opinion or Noggin's, I would strongly advise that you consult both the CAA and the company that insures the aircraft to ensure that you don't end up with a personal liability for some tens of thousands of pounds should anything go wrong.

[Noggin]

Article 130 (1)(a) aerial work means any purpose (other than public transport) for which the aircraft is flown for valuable consideration if given or promised in respect of the flight or the purpose of the flight.

Unpaid flight instruction is a private flight and not aerial work.

FAR 61.3 (a) permits a US registered aircraft to be flown in a foreign country by the holder of a pilot certificate issued by that country.

Unremunerated instruction is therefore possible.

I do not think that you would get permission for aerial work (paid instruction) unless you had the appropriate ratings issued by the country of registration as stated in Art 21.



[This message has been edited by Noggin (edited 10 May 2001).]

[Speedbird48]

According to the FAR's the ONLY validation that the FAA will ever give you is a PRIVATE.
You can have Private, Multi, Sea, Glider, Balloon or anything else BUT you ONLY have a PRIVATE.
You can do a short written to enable you to use your foreign Instrument rating as long as it stays valid in your home country.
So to sum up you cannot do instruction in an N registered airplane without a US CFI ticket.

[eyeinthesky]

Thanks for the replies. It seems the safest option is to assume it is NOT possible.

------------------
"Take-off is optional, Landing is mandatory"

[Noggin]

Private means unremunerated. You can instruct unremunerated in the UK. I have done it on N Reg aircraft after first checking with the CAA that it was legal.

[Lepidoptera Noctis]

I have been reading this post with some interest as a friend and former work mate has gone to a big Commercial School as an Instructor teaching CPL’s on approved courses, he is going out to the US to work for them for a little while just to get started. He tells me that they say it is ok for UK CPL licensed instructors to work in the US on a validation of their licences by the FAA. He can do anything as far as instructing is required out there, but I think there is something about them having to get sign off for their students flights by a US instructor before they can send them solo. Seems that the FAA take a much more reasonable line about this than the CAA, no wonder that the FAA system works so well it is much more practical.

[juswonnafly]

Yep...this is all a bit odd. You can teach JAA students on N reg in the states if you are a JAA FI (the first solo thing is a little bit 'grey' though).

So the CAA allow it over there but not here?

JWF http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif