Panshanger Airfield - similar experiences?

[porridge]

Has anyflown into Panshanger and had similar experiences to these gentlemen?

From the Welwyn & Hatfield Times:"Reaction to our arrival at the the airfiel was totally uncalled for" (http://www.whtimes.co.uk/archived/2004/wk24_2004/postbag/asp/postbag2.asp)

[Genghis the Engineer]

I once had a couple of spotters turn up at our field and ask to be allowed to look around. I politely explained that it wasn't possible that weekend, since there was an air-scout camp going on that weekend (which I was helping run) and for care-and-control reasons we were, for that weekend only, restricting access to the airfield to known club members, the Scouts and their leaders.

A week or so later, a somewhat biased view of what seemed at the time to me a perfectly polite encounter appeared on a spotters bulletin board slating our place as probably the most unfriendly airfield in England.

The result, totally unintentionally, has been virtually no spotters ever since :zzz: ; although as I explained at the time, they'd have been perfectly welcome the following weekend, I can't honestly say it's done us any harm.

G

[Chocks Wahey]

Does anyone have the original article?

Been to Panshanger quite a few times and always found it to be very friendly. They always insist on an overhead join though, no matter where you approach from.

[J.A.F.O.]

no spotters ever since
RESULT!

Since I have taken up the hobby of spotter spotting I have seen lots of aircraft spotters, almost as many train spotters and, last Sunday in London, I spotted my first bus spotter.

All of these people were out in public with, apparently, no supervision whatsoever.

However, from the letter in the Welwyn & Hatfield Times:
Myself and three friends are aviation enthusiasts and belong to the Luton Airport Aviation Enthusiast Scheme, which is run by Bedfordshire Police
it would appear that the local constabulary in Bedfordshire is, at least, keeping watch over these people.

[montster]

I fly from Panshangar and, although I have heard mixed comments about their friendliness to visiting aircraft so can't comment on their attitude towards spotters, I can say that they have an awful lot of trouble with "tresspassers". It's very close to open fields and people frequently walk their dogs within the aerodrome boundaries. The best one I witnessed was mopeds on the runway!! It was after dark, but does give you an idea of what they're up against. However, being rude to people who are respecting aerodrome rules and doing things properly by asking permission doesn't really help anyone.

[Chocks Wahey]

Were they doing wheelies?

[yintsinmerite]

I have only ever been in there once as a student ppl - in fact I think it was the first landing I ever did in which I am confident that instructor didnt help. As I recall, they seemed friendly enough although I was told a story that some people had taken to flying radio controlled models on or near the field which had alarmed a few pilots. The person I was speaking to then went on to say one of the local plane owners had some real tank of a plane with which he managed to mash one of the models. Dont know if it was true, but I liked it at the time

[Zlin526]

I've never been back to the god forsaken run-down place since the proprietor of the flying club threatened to "report me to the CAA" for doing an emergency landing (i.e without engine!) without asking his permission!

Its a $hitehole, always has been and I can suggest far better places to go..

[FNG]

I am, with hindsight, very glad that the chief bloke at Panshangar decided to go for a jolly in the aeroplane booked for my second lesson there. I never went back. The place seemed to me to be reasonably friendly, but very disorganised.

[In Altissimus]

I have to agree with the previous two posters - having endured some so-called 'training' there I now give it as wide a berth as possible. It's a shame it's stuck there in the Luton/Stansted gap - otherwise I would have erased it from my memory by now.

yintsinmerite - I remember one of the 'instructors' used to fly model 'planes on the field while it was open - need I say more?

[Monocock]

Having kept quiet on this thread until now..........I have to go along with Zlin and FNG.

That guy is an absolute w****r of the first order and I wouldnt let one penny of my money pass through his hands.

I have suffered his wrath first hand and I would describe it as "an imbalanced display of inferiority".:rolleyes:

[eyeinthesky]

I was also there by chance a few years ago when a PA28 landed. On board was a chap who used to be a student or an instructor there, who had had a falling out with the guy with a strange surname who was in charge. The PA28 had come in for fuel, but the owner refused to sell him any because he didn't like him, forcing him to depart to Elstree with about 30 mins total fuel.

I had a trip in the Pitts and feel certain that I was ripped off (charged for an hour when we were only up for 40 mins) but I was a little dazed after the aeros and didn't pursue it :suspect:

Not a good experience.
It's a pity really, as it is nicely placed and free from the hassle which is occasionally experienced at Elstree.

[wet wet wet]

Went there once, a year or so ago, since there was a free landing voucher in one of the mags. No-one wanted to talk to us, nothing to see, nothing to do, so we were quickly on our way. No reason to return. The way that housing is encroaching the airfiels it may not be around much longer in any case.

[Aussie Andy]

Great, that's Panshanger off my list then! I love this PPRuNe "airfield radar" or "w*nker early warning" function ;)

Andy :ok:

[FNG]

Apart from location it appears to have little going for it: no food, no bar, nothing but dull suburbs nearby.

[david viewing]

I was in a Jodel group there many, many years ago. Can't comment on the present ownership, but just off the end of the runway was an entire Roman city in the process of dissapearing into the vegetation!

Apparently it was the set of Korda's pre-war movie 'I Claudius', abandoned intact when the project failed in about 1937. Is it still there?

DV

[EL SID]

And it doesn’t end there the ‘proprietor’ abuses his customers too! For example he assaulted an aircraft owner (put his hand up to it in court and was bound over to keep the peace). Has had numerous complaints of inappropriate behaviour towards female pilots in the cockpit and on the airfield and he has been known to instruct and examine without a valid license. The way he treats his staff would end him up in many an industrial court action if most of the people were not totally intimidated by his threats.
The CAA is aware of his behaviour and they have had formal complaints made to them and yet they seem reluctant to act.
So the consensus of opinion is that he is a “chronic self-abuser” seems to be correct!

Note to the moderator – contact me if you want verification of the above, I can provide you with names and telephone numbers to confirm all the above, with exception of the last sentence!

[WorkingHard]

I have used Panshanger on a number of occasions and found no problems at all. I may or may not have met the owner, I simply dont know. What I do know is that it is very handy for my purposes on occasions and the staff have been quite correct and friendly. I am not in any way disputing what has gone before but just to say the reception some have had is not universal.

[BRL]

Anyone can write what they like on here, anywhere in fact, not too bothered about verifying things as I do trust virtually all of you here but I will need from you your contact details when asked for them if someone wants to make a noise regarding content of posts etc. If you agree to that, write what you like, no problem.. :)

[inaspin]

Sounds like an owner straight from Sywell's Bletsoe Brown school of how to run an airfield!

[Fordhom]

Being the greedy little bugger I was (and still am) I did two flying scholarships a few years back. The first was paid for by the RAF, and I flew at Glenrothes. Much fun had by all, and I really do feel I learnt a lot. I then was awarded another 15 hours by the Air League, which I chose to fly at Panshanger as it is much closer to home. The general attitude there was remarkably unimpressive, and looking back on it now, the instruction I received appalling.

The CFI in particular I would single out for criticism. He once stopped me from flying on a beautiful day as he had not yet received payment for my flying up to that point. Were I a normal PPL student I would find this attitude perfectly acceptable, but did he seriously think a national organisation such as the Air League would not cough up? As a result of this I missed the oppurtunity to complete my qualifying cross country before starting at university, which was a major disappointment at the time.

[IO540]

I've been to Panshanger quite a few times recently, visiting a friend nearby, and with the exception of the person on the radio demanding an overhead join apparently just for the fun of it, I have found them very helpful.

They are doing the place up a bit, which is a rare sight in GA anywhere, and I hope they succeed.

Re what EL SID writes, I am afraid that is common in the GA instructing scene. Loads of male instructors have made passes at female students, often successfully, occassionally with the success being evidenced 9 months later :O and some clearly do regard this as a perk. Very occassionally the line gets crossed where a young gullible female student gets free lessons. But driving instructors do the same, given half a chance and a female student that appears willing. I am not really into political correctness but the GA business attracts certain types that behave in certain ways, and most women wouldn't climb into a C150 if you paid them for it, anyway.

[cubflyer]

Some friends of mine visited Panshanger last weekend by road. They had the same experience as described in the original post. On their way from the car park to the clubhouse to ask someone if they could take some photos, they were intercepted by this guy, told they werent welcome and to get back in their car and get off his airfield.
There was no discussion, he was just adamant that aircraft enthusiasts werent welcome, so get lost. A suggestion that with many airfields under threat and enthusiasts often being asked to write in and support the airfield, maybe he should re- consider his stance. His answer was "I will never need your help". My freinds comment to me was that they had never met such an arrogant git in his life.
I heard this guy on the radio one day when I was doing some training at Bristol and he was on his way to an aerobatic contest in Wales. Weather totally inappropriate for VFR, he seemed to be struggling and was totally incompetant on the radio.

Panshanger wont be on my list of favourite places to go.

[IO540]

As a general comment, not applying to any particular airfield, there could be a commercial case for not wanting certain types of visitors. If you are trying to attract quality clientele for flying lessons, you don't want a lot of anoraks with cameras hovering around. This comment is bound to attract flames, of course, but let's forget aviation for the moment and think about some other kind of business.

:O

[cubflyer]

Id have thought airfields would want all the visitors they can get, after all, anyone is a potential customer for flying lessons or aircraft hire. Most airfields are happy to accept everyone, particularly airfields abroad which tend to be more lively than some in the UK.
Unfortunately we do have the snob factor here in the UK with some people wanting the airfield they fly from to be like an exclusive club. Generally this tends to have a detrimental effect on business as they are not very friendly and dont attract many new clientel.
Most people with cameras at airfields seem to be friends/relations of people going for flying lessons, joy rides, or the people flying themselves! I cant see why a few enthusiasts visiting is going to put someone off, after all the enthusiasts are interested in the aircraft, not some so called "celebrety" that might be there to learn to fly!

I cant exactly see Panshanger atracting exclusive clientel anyway! And the attitude of the owner is far more likely to put people off!

[EL SID]

Hi Cubflyer
Your comments about the Golf India Tango's RT are spot on. When he's on the Air/Ground he causes mayhem as well. He also is not averse to critiquing landings made by everyone. He is referred to as 'TFC' by the instructors (an abbreviation of the name of the controller from the Thomas Tank Engine books). Would you believe he’s also an RT License examiner too!
He has some sort of thing about his preferred style of T/O & Landings to be made with a high nose attitude (I believe he had a tail-strike on someone's brand new Cirrus a couple of weeks ago, now it's had to go in for some not insignificant repairs due to this kind of exaggerated technique).
As to his attitude: ‘I’ll never need your help’, just sums him up he has an ego larger than Jupiter (the planet is of course a gas giant).

[A and C]

Is it just the tail on the Cirrus that was damaged or is it more significant than that ?.

[pondlife]

I once asked Panshanger if I could hire an aircraft from them because it's convenient for where I live. At first they were quite helpful and I agreed with them that it was reasonable to ask me to check out with one of their instructors.
Then I made the mistake of telling them that I was an instructor. The guy on the 'phone then went off to check with someone more senior than he was and told me that the checkout would be five hours minimum.
It was very clear that they didn't want the business from someone who instructs elsewhere and I always wondered from that what they were trying to hide.

[EL SID]

A and C
Sorry don't have the full technical details on the damage to the Cirrus, I'll ask my source and get back to you.

Pondlife
I suspect you would have had 5 hours with TFC showing you his unique brand of flying and teaching which would never be approved by the CAA. Also included would have been some serious brainwashing and psychological adjustment to his point of view on life and his own unique place it it.
Regards, ES

[majorcan]

El Sid, you're not bitter are you? How's Spain by the way?

[Parapunter]

Dunno much about the airfield, but I grew up in the town & that truly is a sh**hole, take it from me.

[Sjoram2132]

Referred to this thread from another forum i frequent. Am currently student NPPL, and I have some friends living in Welwyn (nr. Panshanger) that I have never met (got to know them online - the whole family !!!) and Panshanger seemed to be the nearest field to Welwyn. The posts within this thread obviously put me off the idea of using Panshanger. I have been suggested Elstree as the only real alternative. Anyone here have any tips? I'm based (and would fly in from) Southend (EGMC)

Thanks

[Kolibear]

The posts within this thread obviously put me off the idea of using Panshanger.

Why?

If you believe all the threads you read here you'll never go flying at all, especially not to Elstree or Sywell, to name just two airfields that have been critised here.

If Panshangar is the nearest airfield to Welwyn, go there. If you don't like it, you don't have to go back.

I've only been there once, we landed, parked, paid, pi55ed, plotted and took off again.

[montster]

I agree with Kolibear. It's so close to Welwyn, it makes no sense not to give it a try. I haven't seen the aforementioned "TFC" around that much recently, so he's probably nothing to worry about.

Make sure you ring in advance, and if it's busy you might have trouble getting a response on the radio, but keep trying!

It's a longish grass runway. Watch out for noise abatement procedures, and turbulence over the trees on 29 approach, put otherwise pretty straightforward. I always find it a bit tricky to spot from the South, despite flying from there for 3 years, so be careful not to fly right over it and into Luton CAS!

[BRL]

Just to back up what is said above, please don't dismiss going there at all based on what you have read here. Go and try it, as said above, if you don't like it simply don't go there again but I do urge you to give it a try. :)

[majorcan]

Very
Alarming
Life at Panshanger we hear.

[Monocock]

Would you
Like to
Unravel the mystery of your post

[FNG]

Although at first both
Appear as though haiku forms
They may not be so

[Big Hilly]

Good Haiku F N
But no Kigo is bad form
Mosquito Perhaps?

:D ;)

BH

[2Donkeys]

Leaves fall on airfield
Boss's friends in short supply
Soon come box houses

[Big Hilly]

Nose high attitude
Washes not with P Prune ers
Roses are blooming

[BRL]

I just wish there was an icon for banging head against wall...... :ugh:

[Big Hilly]

In the summer months
Scoucers should never bang heads
Dreadful it would be

Right, that's it, I'm off to bed. . . .

[jumpseater]

Interestingly having visited by road both before the initial post and by coincidence in between the initial post and cubflyers 26/06 post, with both my young daughters in tow, I had no problems at all. All the regular personnel were there as well! For anyone thinking of using them, I can only say go and see for yourself, I have always found them approachable. Some people will undoubtedly have had problems with the owner/operators, but you will find that at other airfields too, after all, if you believed everything written on bulletin boards you'd never get out of bed in the morning.

ps parapunter: snap! re early years, but I have to disagree, did you never get on the bus to Hatfield? now theres a real s******e, as someone who used to work in the White Hart, I should know! :E

[Chocks Wahey]

It's not too far from Stevenage either. Now that really is a proper 'mockney' Sh*thole.

[Floppy Link]

Hey BRL !

will this do?


http://www.espotlight.co.uk/a2a/listings/9.gif

Russell

[EL SID]

Hi A and C
Sorry for the delay in responding about the Cirrus damage, apparently it was the rear bulkhead that had to be repaired and all - ie megabucks!
ES

[Teddy Robinson]

Seem to remember (therefore ... allegedly) a rash of incidents (early 90's?) with various Panshanger aircraft being planted in fields by instructional staff due to running out of fuel .. same crowd still running it ? :rolleyes:

[im going in]

I started flying from Panshanger in the early nineties, and subsequently moved to Leavesden when Panshanger shut down.
All i was doing was circuits, never given the chance to go solo, I then changed clubs and after one hour instruction at Henlow, i was flying solo. I have heard further reports of the previous owners ripping students off. I know some of you will say maybe i wasn't good enough to go solo, but Henlow obviously thought i was.
As a PPL holder, i have even complanied to the airfield about the amount of times the house has been buzzed, and the worrying aspect of having the Pitts performing its stunts directly above. Mind you wont be long till its housing or an industrial park!

[2Donkeys]

I started flying from Panshanger in the early nineties, and subsequently moved to Leavesden when Panshanger shut down.

Did you get that the right way round?

[im going in]

Yes, Panshangar School Of Flying moved to Leavesden, then when Leavesden shut it moved to an airfield near Ware.

[2Donkeys]

So was Panshanger School of Flying the same thing as Leavesden Flight Centre (subsequently Bonus), or did two schools exist at Leavesden in the mid 90s? I only remember LFC.

2D

[Seat Of My Pants]

As a PPL holder, i have even complanied to the airfield about the amount of times the house has been buzzed, and the worrying aspect of having the Pitts performing its stunts directly above. Mind you wont be long till its housing or an industrial park!
What number of times would be acceptable then - is there a minimum ? ;)

Can anyone spell NIMBY ?

[im going in]

Im hardly a NIMBY, considering aviation pays my mortgage, however maybe you could explain the 500' rule to me? considering i dont live on the approach or departure route.

[LowNSlow]

I popped into Panshangar (by road) last year to get a chart and there seemed to be a nice enough atmosphere in the club house then.

My brother-in-law is doing his PPL exams there at the moment and he is satisfied with the standard of instruction and the facilities there.

There seems to have been some dosh spent on tidying up the carpark and clubhouse area as it's looking very presentable now. Shame about that eyesore of a hangar. I've been told that it's been left like it is because a) it would cost a fortune to put right and b) if it was useable the rates bill would increase hugely.

[Clive J]

I approached the owner of Panshanger earlier this year to do some flying for a local childrens hospice.

I spent half a day there and flew 4 different passengers while the rest watched and waited and took pictures wearing waistcoats supplied by the airfield each time I changed passengers. My wife kept things in order with the group so they understood the peculiarities of airfields.

No charge for anything.

Nice guy to us.