IMC - Required?

[Artificial Horizon]

I am about half way through my AFIC course with a job lined up to start in January, with the implementation of JAR your no longer require or qualify for an IMC rating to gain your CPL/FI, since I converted from a foreign licence without an IR I don't have IMC privledges.

As I can't really afford to do the require training for the IMC, I just want to get advice from the experts as to how useful you have found the IMC rating in you work, an instructor at the school I am out said that in all his years as an instructor he has nevered used it and not to waste my money.

Any thoughts :)

[NIMBUS]

Don't know about required, but certainly recommended!
The IR training will vastly improve your VFR flying as well. More precision in heading, altitude, etc, and an overall better ability to control the aircraft.
Anything which makes you a better pilot is not a waste of money. Anyone who thinks it is really should not be flying.

[autothrottle]

The IMC rating,if taught well,is a very useful tool.for a start you are able to fly IFR in cat E or D airspace.Useful fo know how to do a LEGAL and SAFE ILS if wx gets crappy.

The chap that taught me knew I had ATPL aspirations and so we went through everything we could ,bearing in mind the course is only 15 hours,from knowing how to use the "GATE "in an NDB hold to basically conducting a safe and legal approach in less than brilliant weather when a SVFR clearance would have been dodgy due to vis etc etc.

I think if trained correctly and thoroughly it would CERTAINLY help give you a solid grounding for the IR.OH,and for the record I used mine in anger so it was DEFINATELY NOT a waste of dosh.NIMBUS is right too,it sharpens up your precision flying as well.

Cheers AUTOTHROTTLE

[GT]

I have to agree with NIMBUS and autothrottle. It's good fun teaching it too.

[Noggin]

The real question is do you hold a CAA CPL or a JAR-FCL CPL?

From your comments you appear to have a JAR-FCL CPL which confines you to VFR operation, that will severely limit your ability to instruct if the weather is anywhere near marginal, so the IMC rating is almost essential.

[Artificial Horizon]

I hold a JAR-CPL, I think that I will do the IMC because the popular opinion is that it will help with my time as an instructor and as many have stated will allow some hands on IF before I tackle the full blown IR.

Thanks for all of your opinions, keep em coming :)

[MorePower]

Instrument flying is definately a good idea. In fact the further North in the UK you go, the usefulness of IMC or IR increases with the square of the co-efficient of lift! (or something!)

Seriously though, I would reccommend an American (FAA) Instrument Rating. You get 40 hours flying for about £400 more than the 15 hour UK IMC course! Also it will definately help when it comes to the UK IR.(Believe me, I Know!) Also with an American IR, you learn stuff like limited panel non-precision approaches, which you never do as part of the UK IR.(although adds lots of grey hairs!). You also do airways section which is omitted from the UK IMC rating. I am now an IMC instructor, and would still reccommend the FAA IR to anyone who intends to complete th UK IR sometime.

At the time I completed my FAA IR, the CAA issued an IMC on that basis (for the appropriate fee, of course), and you were exempt from the fully approved UK IR course.
I believe that this is still the case.

As with any training establishment in the States though, choose you school carefully! I completed mine at Air Desert Pacific, La Verne Airport, nr LA. Weather was proper IFR, and staff and Instructors very professional.

Good Luck!

[NIMBUS]

What is an NDB "Gate"...?

I hope its' just terminology I am unfamiliar with, rather than any procedure!
I can't remember any such term in FAA use...!

Can someone please educate me....?

[Sleeve Wing]

Yes,please,what is an "NDB" gate ?
I've held an IR for a very long time and I've never heard of the like.

[MorePower]

Okay guys, the gate position can be used during NDB holds (or VOR using RMI). Basically, one way of doing an NDB hold is as follows:
1. On passing the beacon, start the watch and turn outbound.
2. Use a 90* relative bearing from the beacon to establish the abeam point & note time.
3. If it has taken 50 secs to get here (assuming perfect rate 1 turn), then you have a tailwind of some form and therefore continue outbound for 50 secs.
4. Note that after 50 secs you should be at the gate. (The gate position is when the beacon is at a relative bearing of 30*(from the a/c tail) - For example if outbound heading is 270* then gate will be when the head of needle points to 120* - Draw it out if you still don`t follow!).
5. If the gate position (head of needle moves to 30* relative to a/c tail)before eg. 50 secs, then you are inside the hold, and can fly out on the gate heading (eg 120+180=300*) Then turn inbound at 50 secs.
6. If the gate position has not arrived by 50 secs, then you are outside the hold, and a very shallow turn required inbound.
7. If gate position arrives at 50 secs - CONGRATULATIONS - You have got it!

Definately draw it out though. It is very difficult to describe without diagrams.

[Noggin]

Don't forget the Half Gate at 60 degrees relative where you can check you position half way outbound and adjust to finish exactly at the Gate.

[BEagle]

NDB 'Gates', 'Half Gates'?? This smacks of some old dinosaur teaching relevant to the DC2 and lovingly cherished by those who would make an art form of what is a NON-PRECISION technique! Like the teaching of some who agonise over how long to wait after crossing the beacon on an extreme sector 3 join before starting the downwind leg. 'Thousand one, thousand two.....now' or 'One Crocodile, Two Crocodiles....TURN' serve as well as 'the sine of the inbound angular difference multiplied by the date divided by the TAS expressed in furlongs per fortnight' or whatever. Remember K I S S !!
Heresy? Perhaps - but the NDB hold is NOT the be all and end all of IFR flight, just a very minor part of it. So let's keep it in perspective.....and it is NOT a mandatory part of the IMC Rating Test, although if ATC direct that a hold is required, then the applicant shall do so correctly.

[NIMBUS]

Thanks Guys..
Sounds like its just normal hold procedures with a fancy title!

Like calling a janitor a Sanitation Processing Engineer...!

Why do CAA, etc., insist on making everything sound so complicated?