No elevator....

[Nishko]

This may sound like a childish question, but then some children asked me! I'm curious too, so here goes.....

If, hypothetically, the elevator cable snapped on a C152, could you continue to maintain control using the trim alone? I guess the answer is yes to the greater degree, due to the fact that the trim tab 'flies' the main surface. I wouldn't relish the thought of a controlled flair though! Would the elevator be a little prone to fluttering due to the lack of damping from the weight o the cables etc?

Thoughts.....

Nish.

[Mark 1]

Two points:

Yes it does work (I'm told), trim out your approach and feed in a bit of power to cushion the touch down.

You have two elevator cables, so a single failure could be coped with by trimming against the working cable, giving control by increasing or decreasing the back/forward pressure.

I know someone who hit a post with his tailplane on a go around, folded it up into the fin and still landed OK with no elevator and not much rudder.... where theres a will...

[Squawk 8888]

The POHs for the 150, 152 & 172 describe a procedure for landing without elevator, which involves trimming to the desired airspeed and power to control pitch. My PPL instructor had me do it and one could probably walk away from the landing but forget about using the plane again anytime soon. She also showed me how to fly a 150 with no rudder by steering with the doors :-)

[Nishko]

.....You can even steer with your arms out of the windows, but it would be a wide circuit ;)....and you look like a plonker of course.

Nish

[Tinstaafl]

I've done those sorts of exercises with the occasional student, as did one or two of my instructors with me.

Quite interesting how much control is available with judicious use of trim, power, flap & even weight shifting. So, yes, it is possible to land with this level of control - and without necessarily bending the a/c.

Of course other factors such as x/wind, length of runway, turbulence all have an effect.

It always fascinated me that the C150/152/172/182 would roll AWAY from whichever door was opened ie L roll if the R door is opened & vica versa. Can't remember if it was the same for C177 or C210.

The doors give quite remarkable roll control in those types. Otherwise the secondary effect of yaw (using rudder &/or differential throttles) is quite feasable.

NB: All the above is not EASY, but possible.

[Squawk 8888]

t always fascinated me that the C150/152/172/182 would roll AWAY from whichever door was opened ie L roll if the R door is opened & vica versa.

That threw me at first until I realized that with the door being directly under the wing creates a high-pressure zone when opened, not unlike the flaps. Got one hell of an adverse yaw! I wonder if a hand out the other window would be enough to centre the ball...

[NIMBUS]

Don't know about the Cessna's, but I had an instructor who landed Warriors with trim and power, never touching the yoke! Trying to show me an elevator loss need not be life threatening. Have to admit,I never mastered it myself, but it can be done!!

[ShyTorque]

Just be careful about this.

Very early in my flying career (27 years ago)an over-confident instructor tried to show me how to fly a circuit in a C150 without touching the yoke. He was using power, trim and on the approach, flap to fly the aircraft. We hit turbulence over some trees on very short finals and the windscreen was suddenly full of the undershoot as we achieved a LOT of nose down. Self preservation took over and I pulled back on the yoke as he struggled to remove the full flap, apply power and sort out the trim. We landed about 50 metres short of the runway on the unmown part of the airfield.

I was very shaken and he went off sick after a giving the CFI a severe listening to. This sort of thing stays with you a long time!

Anyone thinking of trying this at home be warned.

[Stan Evil]

Just a thought .... If the elevator has jammed then the trim tab will pitch the aircraft in the opposite sense (and not very powerfully). If the elevator's free to move then the trim will work in the correct sense as it is now effectively a servo tab. In some aircraft the trim switch alters the incidence of the whole tail (the Canberra is one such) and so is actually more powerfull than the elevator - hence the number of Canberras that speared in when they had a trim runaway.

[chicken6]

Certainly can be done, I've done it a few times when C152 aeros aren't exciting enough (more about that later).

Just give yourself a big turn onto final so that you don't have too much correcting to do on short final, and like ShyTorque said, if it gets too hairy, a close shave is not a good thing.

Safe flying

------------------
Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.

[Centaurus]

Reminds me of an article in RAF Air Clues light years ago. The pilot in a Vampire had brake pressure failure (they operated pneumatically)which he noticed on the pressure gauge while on downwind leg. In his accident report (he ran off the end of the runway)he stated that he wound open the canopy on touch-down to create more drag.

The Air Clues editor (a kindly old chap going by the name of Wing Commander Spry), couldn't resist a gentle dig at the pilot. He said that opening the canopy for drag was fine , but that more drag could be attained if the pilot had folded his handkerchief at four corners and hung it out of the cockpit like a braking parachute....

Nothing to do with Cessnas of course, but I liked the story.

[Oldlearner]

Please dont do the door trick in C177. Open door in flight is not approved as the closed door forms a structual part of the airframe http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif

[This message has been edited by Oldlearner (edited 10 September 2000).]