Western USA flying - with Girlfriend

[JeroenC]

Hello all,

I am planning to go on a holiday flying trip in western USA with my girlfriend.
We are planning to go the first three weeks of August.
I hope to get some 35 hours. Not too much, so we can have a nice, relaxed time.

The goal is twofold: hour building and a nice holiday fot the two of us.

We would like to see some nice things: familie parks, nature, culture, beach, mountains, cities etc.
How would the weather be in that period?
I am a 60ish VFR pilot.

Starting point is not really important, depends amongst others on rate of rent and flight price to get there (from Holland).

Does anybody know a good place to rent? Price is one thing, but I certainly don't want to get failures when en-route!

Thanks in advance.

Jeroen Cornelissen

[david viewing]

There have been numerous discussions of this subject (Western USA, not the girlfriend!). One such is "Western USA for two weeks" . Just type it in to the Search function. (Sorry I couldn't make the link work!)

[Flyin'Dutch']

D,

Is this (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117538&highlight=Western+USA+for+two+weeks) the one you mean?

FD

[JeroenC]

Thanks.

I've used the search and seen the thread.

Just wanted to know about some things do actually do - not just some nice places to see for two men (as in the other thread).

Greetz,

JeroenC

[Josh10524]

I don't know exactly whee in the west you will be, but some things both she and you might enjoy - Fly in to Catalina Island, off the coast of southern California, and spend a day or two in Avalon, the town there. Lake Havasu in Arizona is fun, although now that I think about it, August would be way too hot unless you were out on the water a lot. There's always disneyland and amusement parks like that, but I would imagine you are interested in things less touristy than that. Anyway, what part of the West do you intend to visit?

[MLS-12D]

Pilot Getaways (http://www.pilotgetaways.com/) magazine covers places to go and things to see and do ... most of the issues, especially the older ones, are focused upon the western states (mainly California). It might be worth checking the table of contents of back issues (listed on the website) and ordering two or three that cover the towns that you are thinking of visiting.

Josh's suggestion of Catalina Island (http://www.catalina.com/airport.html) is great! :ok:

[JeroenC]

Josh, MLS-12D, thanks alot!

I don't know yet which part of western USA. California is a must, but the rest is all option. Depends basically on haw for I can go in 17.5 hours (have to get back, of course)!

Regards,

Jeroen Cornelissen

[Airbus Girl]

Also, Big Bear Mountain (nice and cool up there) and Las Vegas is great to fly into for a couple of days, and you can also do the sights from there - fly around the Canyon, up to see the Hoover Dam, that sort of thing. Very spectacular scenery and lots of hours.
Its very hot in August so plan to fly nice and high and you should be OK. Check your girlfriend likes flying, or at least can tolerate it, because its going to be hot, stuffy, airless and also can be quite bumpy over the hills.
There is also lots of good shopping, including nice air conditioned shopping malls. If you fly into El Cajon, then its about a 20 minute walk to the shopping malls (someone at Anglo American Aviation can point you in the right direction).

[Gregg]

If you are looking for somewhere that the temperature is a little cooler, try Wyoming. You can fly into Jackson Hole and Cody. You could see some great scenery from the air, then rent a vehicle in Cody and head up into Yellowstone Park. Spend a few days there. Cody has the Buffalo Bill Historical Center (with 5 museums), a nightly rodeo, and great fly fishing. Maybe contact one of the ranches and go on a day or overnight horseback trail ride. Gret chance for romance in a little cooler environment.

[david viewing]

OK, as already pointed out, it's going to be VERY hot. That means density altitude and IMHO a max of 2 up in a 172 in the mountains (and minimum baggage).

However I did Vancouver BC-Reno and back in a 172N in Sept a few years back skirting the Cascades (Mts. Ranier, Hood, St Helens etc.) with no performance issues and a smooth ride. But I found the FBO's in the Seattle area very picky about flying in the mountains and several just wouldn't rent to a foreign sounding PPL - period!

I ended up with PFC (http://www.pacificflying.com/) at Boundary Bay Canada having rejected all the Seattle area FBO's on above pickiness and reluctance to do weekly rental. PFC were excellent, but it was much more administratively complex than just flying out of a US location. And they insisted on a mountain flying course (3Hrs + ground), which was excellent in the event and strongly reccomended.

Canadian scenery and hospitality is excellent with plenty of side trip possibilities for skiing, boating, fishing, riding etc and the cdn$ is 2.49 to the £, making a 172 £41/hr at my calculation! So why not head north?

[FWA NATCA]

Jeroen,

If you really want to impress your girl friend, fly to Oshkosh Wisconsin during the EAA AirVenture fly in. Here is their web site,(http://www.airventure.org/ ). For both of you this would be one of those awesome once in a life time experiences that you would never regret making.

If the two of you love flying, love meeting other pilots, and like looking at airplanes then there is no better place in the world than Oshkosh during AirVenture. The EAA also provides a registration and hospitality tent for foreign pilots that is right by the flight line.

Mike
NATCA FWA

[MLS-12D]

If you really want to impress your girl friend, fly to Oshkosh Wisconsin during the EAA AirVenture fly inThis would definitely make a strong impression; whether it is a positive or negative one depends entirely upon how enthusiastic your lady is about aviation.

If, like most girlfriends and wives, she tolerates your flying but is not head-over-heels in love with small airplanes, I would highly recommend that you give Oshkosh a miss, and travel to places that feature other activities and attractions that she will enjoy.

[englishal]

(nice and cool up there)
Careful in the summer in Big Bear, DA gets to around 10,000' + and its best to go early or late in the day if you want to be sure to take-off again :D

Try Oceano at Pismo Beach. Cool strip right on the beach to the West of San Lusi Obispo .

ea

[411A]

Just a brief note about summertime flying in the southwestern desert areas, California, Arizona, southern Nevada, New Mexico.
August, in addition to being very hot, also provides lots of airmass thunderstorms in the late afternoons.
Many of these can be quite violent with rather large gust fronts.
Use extreme caution and check weather reports carefully.
In addition, expect moderate turbulence below 12,000msl from noontime onwards, due to thermal activity.
And, file a flight plan and make regular position reports with flight service.
That way, if you should become overdue, the Civil Air Patrol will come looking.
Make the system work for you...and at no charge whatsoever.:cool:
Happy flying!

[TonyR]

I have flown a lot in the US over the years with wife and kids in tow.

The best time we all have is when wife is left on the beach and I go flying.

Unless your girlfriend is a pilot or really loves flying you will be having a good old fight before you get 5 hours done.

[JeroenC]

Thanks alot guys (and girl ;), you've been very helpfull. Lots of iedeas!



A few questions though:

1. It's been mentioned some times that the whethers "is not perfect". Would you advice against it? Would I ben grounded for more then 1 or 2 days in a row?

2. I've got some advice regarding flying clubs for renting. Would they rent to somebody who wants to join for a month of hourbuilding?

3. I'm going for about 18 days, and 35-40 hours. That's about 2 hours a day. A lot of schools/clubs require at least 3 hrs/day, some 4. You think it would be possible, with an increased rental rate, to get it with the average 2 hr/day? How would I get this to work?

4. Mike, I would love to see an FAA Tower or approach facility (or anything else). Any chance?
My girlfriend is (unfortunately) the " i'll tolerate your flying, go alog, but don't expend me to get thrilled from it" type!

5. David, what do you mean about the hassle with flying from Canada (into USA)? Visa?


Thank you all again!

[sharksucker]

Hi, if you are planning to fly more than 35 to 40 hours, consider Missoula in Montana:
There is an FBO they offer following deal:
join the club for 300 Dollars, pay monthly 60 Dollar and rent the C-172 for only 39 Dollar wet per hour..
With 40 hours in one month it comes to 48 Dollars per hour! If you fly more, even less to pay..
They have 2 C-172 and availebilty is quite good.
The deal is via Edwards Air Jet Center in Missoula, if you are interested pm me, I can find out the phonenumber for you.
It is a beautiful place to fly around here in Montana...

Sharksucker

Edit:
Jeroen just asked me about the phonenumber in Missoula:
Did a mistake: it is not Edwards Jet (they dont have a base in MSO), it is Northstar...
Here is the link to the deal:
http://www.northstarmso.com/ns_fly_club.jpg

[JeroenC]

... and unfortunately they don't rent for periods > 2 days... so that's a bit short.

Thanks anyway!

[MLS-12D]

JeroenC,

Another option would be to sign up for one of the aerial tours offered by Parkwest Air Tours (http://parkwestair.com/page1.html). Certainly not cheap, but should be hassle free. I have not patronized Parkwest, but they are based upon GOANA, which is a super outfit! This AOPA article (http://www.parkwestair.com/files/0302parkwestairtours.pdf) is encouraging.

If your girlfriend is anything like my wife, she would much prefer to travel around with other couples and with the convenience of having the fuel, weather, accomodation, etc., handled by the tour guide. And the pre-programmed GPS makes navigation a snap.

I believe that too many of us are so enthusiatic about flying that we forget (or ignore) the fact that our partners may find it boring, uncomfortable and/or frightening. Rather than 'jumping in at the deep end', we'd do better to focus on doing what we can to make things enjoyable for them. Pick interesting destinations, and stay at nice hotels. Rent the newer aircraft, rather than saving a few dollars on the tatty-but-safe 40-year-old model. It costs a bit more money, but so be it ... better that than a miserable time that results in the boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse putting their foot down and refusing to participate in any more trips.

[Pilot P]

Jeroen C,

You can fly a lot of nice trips in the USA.

Have fun and let us know when you're back. Then you can share your experience with us..


Greetz,
Pilot P

[Flyin'Dutch']

MLS,

Very very wise words, and what better excuse does one need to spend more wonga on aviation!

FD

[Airbus Girl]

1. Weather in Southern California will not be stormy. Why not hire from Air Desert Pacific (LA), who are very accommodating about hour building, or Anglo American Aviation in San Diego? Many schools I've been to have either a 2 or 3 hours per day (average) hire, but if you are hiring for a month then its different.

2. Depends on how the "club" operates - if its just a "club" by name, then you might be OK - worth asking.

3. If you can't find a school that will offer a 2 hour a day rental then you can pay for 3 hours a day and only use 2, or just do an hour on your own each day.

4. You can no longer visit the FAA towers - I know, I tried in January - security issues mean that even licenced pilots can no longer get in.

5. I've flown from San Diego into Vancouver (with stops, obviously!!), and no hassle about going in, except you need a "sticker" on the airplane - the schools will know about this.


I think you should stick to using the airplane like you would a car - to get to the places she wants to go. A good compromise!! You get to fly and she gets to choose the destinations! You could always then go and do an hour's circuits or a little local xc if she's happy to, say, go shopping or do whatever she fancies doing.

Just make sure she's comfortable with it all - as I mentioned, it can be hot and bumpy, which isn't much fun, and can make people airsick.

I'd recommend Anglo American just because they often have other Brits there, and often have girls training there, so if she gets fed up with the flying around then there is loads of other stuff to do, and its very social there.

You can do plenty of trips from there as a base and they can give loads of advice to help you.

She could also do a Safety Pilot course there if she fancied it, who knows, she might get into flying too.

[JeroenC]

Thank you all for your reactions.

MLS-12D, I think you're right, we do think everybody loves aviation. And they should! I don't know how my girlfiend likes it, but I do intend to do it like you and Airbus Girl suggest: make it not a flying trip, but make it a holiday, where you get to places with a plane. I do however pick the cheapiy planes, can't afford the newr ones. I've told her that rental ploanes are always this old..... does she know!

I will read the article about Parkwest Air Tours, never heard about it. As said, money IS a issue, however!

Pilot P: Thank you! I will share all my info, and loads of pics.

Flying Dutch: May I ask how long you've been in the UK? From your wording it sounds like along time! You've certainly mastered the language.

Airbus girl, thanks for your reply. ADP does not allow to go >25 hours without IR. And that's, sadly, something which is on my wish list...
AAA have provided me with mal-information before, and I've heard (second-hand) that their planes air grouned due maintenance now and then. That's not something I like when 3000 nm away...

That's a shame, not being able to visit the towers. And the FAR/aIM says" we encourage ATC visits". Yeah right!

Getting her into the flying would be a nice thing! What exactly is is pilot safety course? It would be good for my ease of mind too to have a safety pilot. Although, I know how she drives haha.
Then again, I'm the one with 3 accidents.... :O

Again, thank you all. I will keep you posted!

[david viewing]

4. You can no longer visit the FAA towers - I know, I tried in January - security issues mean that even licenced pilots can no longer get in.

Not according to Prescott AFSS (http://www.prcafss.faa.gov/) .

David

[Airbus Girl]

Well, I hope thats true. I tried in January, at a tower I'd been to before, and I hold full FAA and CAA ATP licences and I wasn't allowed in.

A Safety Pilot course is basically about 6-10 hours and means that your girlfriend would know more about what is going on, and could safely land the plane if it were necessary. It involves a bit of radio work, circuits, etc. and maybe even a few solo circuits.

Might make it more fun for her when you fly together, and who knows, she might get the bug!!

I was thinking as well, try and involve her in the flights, show her what you look for on the walk round, teach her how to do that, and explain the radio calls and so on and she'll find it easier.

I started flying with AAA doing my PPL and I did most of my training with them before going through a fast track scheme over here straight on to jets, which is what I fly now. If you want to PM me I can tell you the facts rather than the myths. I last flew some hours with them back in Jan/Feb this year.

You wouldn't need to take the aircraft away for more than 25 hours if flying from LA (Air Desert Pacific) unless you want to fly across the States and back!!!! (Been there, done that...)

There are loads of shorter circular routes which are really interesting. I did 200 hours in a month from ADP and the first 70 or so were on a circular route(s).

So I can offer some tips if needed.

As you say, best to use the plane like a car.

You will have so much fun. I'm jealous! Wish I was doing it again....

[JeroenC]

200 in an month? you've got to be jokin'!!!!!
Wow, i'm impressed!!

Aha, such a safety course would be fun. I hope she'll get the likes for it.
I was actually planning on showing her all what I'm doing in the plane. She's usaually very interested in learning things, although she also usually thinks she can't do it herself. Which most of the times proves wrong, but it is a matter of self-confidence. Something of which I've got too much, as has been proven before!

Straight to the jets? Are you a US citizen? If you've got details, please mail me @ [email protected]. More then interested and willing to pay for a route with a modest chance of work.

well, my intended route is:
Vancouver
Seattle
San Fransisco
LA
Catalina Island
Sedona
Las Vegas
Boulder City (Hoover Dam)
Grand Canyon
Meteor Crater
Monument Valley
Colorado Springs
Yellowstone Park
Vancouver.

So, goeing out and back is a lot of hassle. And in this way I'll have flown the 300 nm XC, I'd think!

Thanks again for your reply!

[TonyR]

Thats quite a route,

I have flown many times with wife, and to get the best holiday we would get up and go early (before it gets too hot and have a few hours somewhere in the middle of the day and then move on to the next stop in the evening. every couple of days, just doing the flying in the morning and staying overnight.

Just dont try to do too much.

If you want to build hours go on your own and just fly fly fly.

Tony

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

Sedona and Catalina are off-limits to many renters these days. A PPRuNe search might find other threads telling you which schools do or don't allow it.

A trip to Catalina with an instructor should still be a good option.

TG.

[JeroenC]

Well, I'll most likely be renting van a Canadian private person, so that would not a problem ,goeingto sedona and catalina.

Yes, we will try to fly early and late. I have, luckily, a night rating, although I don't like using it (to me it's IMC!).

I want to make it a combined hour building / holiday, otherwise the girl won't let me go in my holiday time, and i've got no other time off!

Thanks for all the replies!

[Regis Potter]

Airbus Girl

Tower visits are avaliable again, albeit usually organised by a local instructor.