Unwanted advice

[Capt Crash]

Yesterday I was shocked, not by the student I was flying with but by a visiting instructor to our airfield. I would appreciate any comments on this. This is the tail:

End of a circuit detail, the student is still coming to terms with the feel of the aircraft in the flare, tending to balloon, no different to lots of other students. I allow him to descend to about 6” when he flared in a fashion by pulling back on the control column. We ballooned, he tried to force the aircraft on the ground by lowering the nose and I took control. I applied full power and then landed back on our enormous runway, using only ½ the total distance available. Taxi off, shut down and walked back to operations with the student chatting on the way back.

As I entered operations ATC were on the phone saying that an instructor whom I have never met, or know wanted to know whose aircraft we were in, who was flying and telling ATC that the landing was fast (lie) and looked very dangerous. ATC know me well and placated the instructor and told him not to worry. (He then took 3 attempts to get a departure clearance wrong – well done).

Was the nosey git just showing concern and if to my safety or was he making a point to the world about what he thought of my instructional techniques including my boss!! I must say I was very angry, maybe unjustifiably.

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

[Avenger]

Capt Crash,

Was this chap looking for a job?, in which case I feel his remarks would have done him more harm than good, after all, do we want to be constantly pulling knives from our backs?.
I my experience, if an Instructor has had a close shave, the information is usually volunteered as a means of stress relief.
What goes on in the plane is between student and Instructor and unless there is a clear hazard to other aviators should be kept that way.
This guys' actions could destroy a students' confidence and damage an Instructors image.
It sounds, from his advanced knowledge of RT as if we should all be queuing to give him a job!

[Honest Frank]

Remember seeing my fellow instructors on glide approach practice -the student obviously getting it all wrong ie too fast,too high-the nose then gets pushed way down and it seems as if they are on a "barnstorming" exercise straight towards us.But I wouldnt dream of saying anything as they are pros and I'm sure they knew exactly what they were doing.

[B clam]

Did he know that you were a FI?

[Shed Driver]

Capt Crash, the guy was obviously concerned that the landing looked 'interesting'. However, he should have backed off and not said a further word after finding out an instructor was on board, he was well out of order to say anything untoward about you, and really you were within your rights to speak to him direct and tell him to pull his head in. Sanctimonious gits unfortunately excist in aviation & instructing. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

[A and C]

This attitude works both ways ,some years back i was #2 on the app at ****** folowing a student in a PA28 he was very low and dragging the thing in , as i taxied in i witnessed a second APP that was a carbon copy of the first.

As i booked in i asked the opps guy if an instructor was watching this student ,at this point the duty instructor was called as it was clear that no one was watching this low time student.

Befor i had a chance to sujest that he view the performance of the student i got a "who the hell are you to coment on ***** students outburst" infact the man was downright rude , to a person that he clearly considered to be an interfearing PPl holder.

At no time did i sujest eny thing other than he view the performance of the student and make his own judgment ,after all you cant see all that your students do and a tip off from another pilot can flag up something that happens when your back is turned.

Unfortunatly this guy put his ego befor the interest of his student and felt that he was not going to take a sujestion from a passing PPL holder.

At all times i kept the convesation as low key as posable but as i departed i did point out that that the person that he was trying to belittle was an QFI with an ATPL and 13 years of instructing time.

[Genghis the Engineer]

We've all been there. I think the main thing is that unless there's an utterly immediate safety problem, criticisms should be made privately - never let it become public. If somebody doesn't feel the need to save face, they're more likely to respond in a professional manner.

G

[A and C]

G T E i was trying to be as low key as i could but the guy was not helping maters with his attitude , as for the student i felt that he was low enough to be in danger of hitting a double decker bus on the road outside the aiport if one should pass at the wrong time.

Had the roles been reversed i think i would have thanked the person who reported it to me and got up to thr tower to see the students next landing to see if it was a problem.

[Genghis the Engineer]

No personal slight intended A&C, sometimes there are people who just won't take any criticism. They tend to weed themselves out eventually, although sadly they often take other people with them.

G

[A and C]

G i think you are right but at no time did i offer eny critisim of the guy just the opinion that the student should be observed making the next landing.
It is not my place to interfear with the instruction of a student but if i see something that could be a danger i think that i should bring it to the attention of the instructor.

I would hope that people would do the same for me as i cant see all that my students do.

[Sleeve Wing]

Failed Airline candidate....couldn't hack it but still thinks the whole world was wrong !!
Still trying to impress. What an ego.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I recall an incident where I had to fail two people for the same exam. The subject (other than being aviation) and context is unimportant, both were borderline failures.

One, an 8000hr ATPL (A+H), QFI & bar, rang me up, said that he obviously had some learning to do, and asked if I could spare a day of my time to go through all his weak areas and provide some learning material.

The other, a 300hr PPL, rang my boss up and demanded that I should be sacked for being so unreasonable.

The former came back 6 months later and passed. The latter I haven't seen since.

Which one you do want on a flight deck?

I think many things not intended as criticism are taken as such. Wouldn't life be easier if we only had to deal with aeroplanes and could ignore human beings?

G

[A Very Civil Pilot]

As I've become more experienced as an instructor, I have, on occasions, allowed the student to get into as much difficulty as possible before coming in with a helping hand. It's when things start to look all wrong that you learn why you're supposed to do it the right way. As a result some of the landings that I have been supervising have looked decidely unsafe - but the student has gone away having learned something, and should be able to do it better next time around.

Capt Crash's onlooker has no idea about what is going on in the a/c, and once satisfied that an instructor was in command left it at that, and not made himself look stupid.

[chicken6]

I like to think I would take any comments from anyone pretty seriously, it must be a significant point if they are:

a pilot

sufficiently concerned to actually seek out someone and say something

With that in mind, I like to think I would take any suggestions into account although it hasn't happened yet. I haven't (unfortunately) been busy enough to have one going solo and me having something else to do to take me away from watching them! Seems like any extra set of eyes on your student must be a good thing, as long as they don't try to be the instructor without talking to me first.