approach brief

[DeltaTango]

How do you guy's teach your students to do an instrument app plate brieffing?!??!
Do you have any format you go after to make sure you don't forget anything?
For example, my instructor in the states liked this.....MICE ATM or something, I can't remmember it but, do you have any others?!??!

cheers

[Tinstaafl]

Deleting a double post http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/redface.gif

[This message has been edited by Tinstaafl (edited 19 August 2000).]

[Tinstaafl]

Before the approach, a general overview of the approach chart:

Identity the correct approach plate eg YSAA RWY 26 NDB/DME circling using xxx NDB, yyy DME

Set up radios & navaids: Tune, Ident & Test, sequence to use if multiple radios or standby's

Approach entry eg via a hold, which sector entry / any limits in the hold eg DME, time, altitude; DME arc; min altitude(s) for this part etc

Plan view of approach eg outbound, LEFT teardrop turn. Any limits eg DME, time, cross bearings needed

Profile view: Step down alts, limits --> intermediate limits, MDA etc

If visual: What should I see, where should it be, circling restrictions, what to do then...

If not visual: Missed approach procedure

Finally, any notes / gotchas / other vital info
------------
During the approach:

T next TURN direction TRACK (or hdg) & TIME (or DME limit)

A next limit altitude, MDA or DH. Also includes advisory alt/Dist if available for this approach

A navAID serviceability eg flags away, AUDIO still monitored if NDB, DME ACTIVE if required for the approach.

------------
The TAA checks are short term items to ensure the next impending turn, intercept, descent etc is being attended to.

[Grandad Flyer]

Not an instructor, but I can tell you how we do it in the airline I'm in, we are doing the same approach in the jets as when I go fly a Seneca. Well OK, maybe a tad faster.
Basically you don't need to remember anything except work from the top down. We use Aerads.

So, first, set up everything you'll need (Navs, Coms, etc.) and think it through in your head before opening mouth.
This includes thinking about the weather - if its a stonking cross wind it maybe worth mentioning, or if there is very low cloud.

Obviously STAR may come into it, but just talking about the approach here, you want to go first through the plate starting at the top and basically saying everything on the plate, starting with the plate "code". So... ""the approach is on plate "M1", the ILS/DME approach for runway 03. The transition level is XXX, the MSA is XXX. Then any relevant notes, such as about speed or offset approach. Then we are onto the bottom of the plate, the plan view, reading from left to right. Something like "overhead the XXX VOR, at 5000 feet, outbound on the 234 radial, descending to a platform height of 2500 feet, left turn, inbound course is 031 degrees, final approach fix is at 5.5 dme based on the I-MEY and its a 3 degree glideslope.

The minima I will be using is 200 feet/ 550 metres.

Should I need to go around, I will go full power, raise the nose and when happy that we are climbing I will raise the gear (and flaps on schedule).

The missed approach point is at the threshold. (Then basically read missed approach. Correctly!). Then brief the runway itself. With a bit of practice you can get a really good flow going. So ... top to bottom, the left to right, then missed approach.

Don't forget to talk about speeds and don't forget to check any notes at the beginning regarding special procedures such as speed restrictions, etc.

Hope you don't mind me butting into the Flying Instructors Forum...... :)

[capt beeky]

Msa
Minama
Minutes - from FAF to missed approch
Missed Approach

[A and C]

Most of what you need to know is on the briefing strip on the new format jepp plates just remember that a brief should be brief and not an epic that distracts from the important points.

[RRAAMJET]

A & C: exactly right for airline flying, but I think this is about what the CAA examiner wants to hear ad-nauseam near East-wherever Airport in empty airspace.

Yes, if you're going into O'Hare and they don't allocate your rwy until 10 000 ft and the radio's jammed, you do not want to brief any more than the new Jepp format than is necessary ( fuel status, MEL items, what we'll REALLY do if we go missed, wx ) or you'll lose the picture and pi$$-off the non-handling pilot!

Be brief and keep the other guy interested...

[DeltaTango]

So, basically, what you guys are saying is:
Find my own music and dance to it...??!?!
It's of course allways the best...

cheers :)

[ComJam]

I like the new Jeppesen plates with the "purpose built" approach brief section at the top of the chart. Easy, don't miss anything.

[Dan Winterland]

I've listened to some real epics in my time. The breif on my fleet is the name of the procedure, the plate ident (number and date) the hold (join type, outbound hdg, outbound timing and number of holds) "the procedure as published", DA/DH/MDA/MDH and intentions, use of reverse thrust, and intentions if a go around is necessary. Much more than this is superflous.

[DeltaTango]

Hej dan - what about:
Weather/ATIS
Possible emergency before/after reaching FAF/MDA/DA

[rolling circle]

Delta Tango - Dance to your own music is about right. Each operator has its own SOP and you will be expected, nay obliged, to comply. Mind you, it can get quite confusing when you are giving third party sim time to crews from other operators.

In the meantime, I wouldn't worry too much - if you are operating in a single-crew environment, who is there to brief anyway? I was talking to some of the FEs at Bournemouth the other week who were complaining about the time wasted on IRTs with unnecessary and lengthy departure and approach briefs.

[Dan Winterland]

Sorry DT, ATIS as well. We usually have the ATIS by then and start the brief with the current ATIS letter. As for emergencies - why? How many emergencies can you brief? If you get one, surely the response is implicit in your training.

A few years ago when we used to operate from the same building with four USAF crews doing the same job; we briefed with them and 'walked' for the sortie at the same time. We used to sit and listen to them brief every emergency they could possibly get for over half an hour, the Captain 'blahing' on for hours while the rest of the crew started to nod off. We waited for them to finish before starting our brief which was nearly always "Same as yesterday - any Questions?" because it nearly always was.

If you think back to any emergencies you have had, how many could you have prepared yourself for? Of the five biggish ones I have had, only one had a suitable course of action laid down in the checklists.

Certainly be aware that emergencies can happen and be menatlly prepared for them, but beware of breifing in too much detail. From my experience that can lead to the wrong course of action as you try and make the situation fit the brief.

The one place a breifing is relevant is prior to take off - but in our fleet, that can be shortened to "SOP".

[DeltaTango]

thanks dan, but can I get the SOP?
The app and landing, like take-off, is a very dangerous place to make a mistake/wrong jugment because of the small margins you are working with.
When I flew in the army we had to make some "pre decided" decisions about the take off because there is a big difference between an emergency before or after rotation and you do not have time to make a decision, because it will be too late-we agree on this-yes?!??!!?
The same applies around the FAF and landing fases. The hole outcome of the landing can change if you for example choose wrongly to either go around or go ahead and land, and you have'nt really got the time to think about it. So unless your checklist specifies differences between emergencies between different segments, it might be a good idea to make a note of it (short note about what will happend if this or that occurs at a certain pouint of the app.-not the hole emergency procedure).

:) :)

[A Very Civil Pilot]

For the UK IRT, the only part of the approach brief that is a pass/fail item is RVR/descent ban & MDA. The rest is nice, but when you're doing the 'one-armed paper-hanger' routine, not always possible.