Instructing on multi-engine aircraft

[Oldjet Jockey]

I read a few months ago a JAR-FCL- news sheet with information for AOPA-EU- Members about IAOPA "successes".

This news sheet listed JAA/JAR proposals for pilot instruction, and the outcome after pressure had been applied by IAOPA. These outcomes were hailed as successes mainly on the grounds of cost saving.

Here is an example:- Proposal- Requirement for flight instructors to obtain 500 hours PIC on multi-engined aeroplanes before being permitted to train pilots for multi-engined rating.

Outcome:- Reduced to 500 hours as pilot of aeroplanes.

Claimed benefit:- Considerable cost saving.

The implication is that a flight instructor can have little or no PIC time in multies.

I was more than happy that my instructor for conversion from singles to multies was very experienced in asymetric goarounds in twin wing mounted engined aircraft. If not I would almost certainly have turned the thing on its back and dived inverted into the ground.

This is only one example of cost cutting achievements by IAOPA. I know that flying training is expensive but what value safety?

Perhaps there was an answer to this particular point somewhere between 500 hrs. PIC in multies and just 500hrs as pilot. I had much more than 500 pilot hours when I undertook my multi conversion and as I say I was happy to have an experienced multi instructor. What do you folks think?

[rolling circle]

The JAA requirement now is for 500 hours as pilot of aeroplanes of which at least 30 is as PIC on the applicable type or class of which at least 10 is in the last 12 months.

The main problem with the original JAA requirement was not so much the 500 hours PIC as the 50 hrs PIC on class in the preceding 12 months. This would have been impossible for most FIs to achieve.

[TooHotToFly]

There's no doubt that there is a real danger with allowing under-experienced instructors to teach multi-ratings however as usual it has to be balanced against cost. If all multi-instructors had to have 500 hours multi time then there would be a real shortage of instructors and the cost of gaining a multi-rating would greatly rise. Would you pay an extra £500-£1000 for your multi rating for flying with a more experienced instructor? Some would but I expect that many wouldn't.

[Oleo]

IMHO it doesn't really matter how many hours you have accrued as a multi pilot if they have all been operated with both the engines/props operating normally.

Yes, multi instruction is a very risky business but the emphasis has to be on the potential MEI meeting the standard on a specifically designed test of their skills.

FWIW in the USA their is no hour requirement to become a flight instructor although you must have 15 hours in cat and class (and to teach in a twin you must have 5 hours on make & model)

[Irish Steve]

Oleo

<<FWIW in the USA their is no hour requirement to become a flight instructor although you must have 15 hours in cat and class (and to teach in a twin you must have 5 hours on make & model)>>

And it causes problems! I spent a month in the States last year doing a CPL/IR MEL, and in that month, several "incidents" occurred on twins, because no one in the aircraft was really comfortable with what was happening. that included a Seneca ending up in approach lights at the far end of a 5000 Ft runway, with a bent prop for their pains!!!

I was lucky, I had more twin time than most of the instructors, and as a result ended up paired with one of the few instructors that really knew how to fly the aircraft, with the result that I did get what I went for.

Most of the instructors on the site would not have been able to do what I wanted, they hadn't had the experience to be comfortable with it.



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"Irish" Steve

[spanwiseflow]

In Oz anyway if you have 500hrs PIC on multi then you certainly are not going to instruct on them! Unfortunate but that's Oz aviation

[Jim lovell]

Sheesh 500 multi PIC not enough?? How many hours is enough then?

[CaptainAirProx]

As a multi instructor, I believe that there should also be a minimum number of instructional hours on singles before being able to teach multi.

I have seen one accident and heard of many which I suspect were down to lack of teaching experience.

It took me around 500hrs as a single AFI/QFI before I had seen most student gotcha's and then be able to predict when these were about to happen. At least in a C152 I was able to learn from my lack of experience without bending the trusty workhorse.

One instructor I know of gained his AFI on singles, did about 50hrs teaching, and then due to his reasonable amount of twin PIC time went and became a multi instructor. His aircraft bit him in the hands of the student. Causing surface contact!

Only with teaching experience does the instructor on multi's have enough forward thinking to monitor the student without having to hover the controls. However, from time to time I still get the odd fright!

As they say, flying is one BIG learning curve.

[Trine]

To answer Jim's question, you need:

1. 50 hours PIC in multi;
2. At least 10 of those 50 in the type of aircraft to be instructed on;
3. A Grade 2 instructor rating (at least 250 instructional hours);
4. A twin-training approval (gained by briefings and flight test).

What spanwiseflow was referring to was the fact that in oz, people with 500 multi are unfortunately in better (higher paid) jobs than the average flight instructor. :)

[Tinstaafl]

Trine, it sounds like you're referring to Oz rules.

In which case, unless there has been a rule change (has there been?), there is no requirement to be a Grade 2 instructor.

Any instructor, including Grade 3's, can get the approval.

Also 25 hrs of the 50 PIC can be ICUS.

[This message has been edited by Tinstaafl (edited 10 November 2000).]

[Trine]

I'm pretty sure Jim's question was directed at spanwiseflow who was referring to Oz regs.

As to the regs themselves, what you're saying certainly was the case as far as I knew. I was given my info by a current instructor who told me about the changes a couple of weeks ago....so who knows http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif

Cheers

[Ozgrade3]

No change as far as I can tell, I'm doing my Multi-Engine Training Approval now as a Grade3, no problems with CASA when I asked.