WX Radar "on" for birdstrike protection?

[Panama Jack]

I've heard two techniques for reducing the risk of birdstrikes-- one being "Landing Lights- on" (this makes it look like the big flying thing has eyes and is hungry) and "Weather Radar- on" where I have been told that the radar scrambles the birds' brains and they don't like that, so they clear a path.

I buy into the Landing Lights on theory, but I am wondering whether the effect of weather radar is just an old wive's tale? Any scientific backup? (please-- no "when I'm flying and have the WX radar on the birds get out of my way") :hmm:

[Sonny Hammond]

I've heard of both.

Some people poo poo the idea of the wx radar and lights, but as you inject a flock of canadian geese at 200' after takeoff you'd probably try yelling out the window at them!

I haven't heard of any official theories but with modern radars the output is a lot lower than that of the older technology radars, so I doubt whether it really does anything much.

Just found this which pretty much answer the question.

Bird laughs in the face of wx radar.... (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=131275)

[oldebloke]

USAF felt that having Radar on didn't seem to ease the birdstrike problem on their C5 transports....Caged birds under radar fire,beyond the 'cooking' distance, didnt seem to be affected.:ok:

[Capt Claret]

4 engine ingestions in 5 months :ugh: , 3 at night, 1 by day, all with landing lights on might suggest that landing lights are inconsequential to the propensity of birds to fly into the aircraft.

As three of these occurrences were into engine #4, there is a good argument I believe to remove #4 from the wing! :E

I have seen some aircraft, predoninantly DH8 in FNQ with occulting landing lights. I'd be interested to know if this system has resulted in a reduction in the incidence of bird strikes. I believe the theory is that a bird cannot see an aircraft too well unless there is relative movement, the landing lights occulting supposedly enhances the perception of relative movement.

[compressor stall]

Whilst on the subject of animals, although not a worldwide issue, when I am landing at first or last light at a strip with kangaroos on it, I turn the landing/recogs off. They seem to hop away from an unknown noise, instead of staring transfixed or hopping across infront of the big noisy thing.

[Canuckbirdstrike]

To all:

I spent over two years researching many issues with respect to bird strikes for a book publised by Transport Canada called Sharing the Skies. The issue of using weather radar as a means to warn birds is urban legend and most likely stems from some of the early air force weapons radar systems that were of much higher power levels than modern weather radar.

"Sharing the Skies" can be viewed on line at the Transport Canada website
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Aerodrome/WildlifeControl/tp13549/menu.htm

Richard Sowden A320 Driver and part time bird strike researcher

[willfly380]

yes actually i have been wondering for a long time if there is any truth to the theory at all.all i know is Never change your path due to birds as a habit at low altitudes

[fokkerjet]

Next time your on the ground, and taxiing, turn the radar on if you see any birds near your taxi route. I've done this before, and somtimes they move, other times they don't:ok:

[OE-LBA]

Just came to mind. On the Jeppesen Airport Diagram of "Venice, Italy" there is the statement:

"Due to bird concentration, pilots are requested to activate their meteo radar before Take-Off and Landing"

No matter whether it's really a housewive's tale, at least it's a published one ... ;)

[FunctionedSatis]

Hi

It is very true that exposure to electromagnetic engergy is not very good for living beings.

The abillity of wx radar to have any effect on brids at any appriciable distance i find hard to belive. The rules that we adhear to while ground testing the wx radar system are that no one should be infront of the radome or to the side, the Max permissable exposure level to microwave energy is a field strength of 10 milliwats per square centimeter. FAA AC 20-68B

On our Bendix RDR-4B the exposure minimum boundary is 14ft from the scanner. Further than that the field strenght has reduced.

Older A/C have older wx radars and these can be more powerful.


Stu.

CAA Eng.

[quid]

With more of our aircraft being TAWS equipped, we're encouraging our pilots to have it "ON". What's the downside? If it gets rid of ANY birds, why not?

[AntiCrash]

CANUCKBIRDSTRIKE

My uncle Walter ran tests out on Long Island with the radar that accompanied the Nike Missile system that studied it's effects on migratory birds. It sounds like you guys should talk sometime.

We used to operate a flock of CV 340/440's out of BWI and STL hauling the Wall Street Journal and I remember sending out two or three leading edges every year to STL because of your compatriot geese. We were running RDR 1b's and an AVQ 10 or two back then. I know that the new stuff probably doesn't do anything but I figure it's like chicken soup, I shouldn't hurt?

The book you did is great. I shall tell my mates about it.

[Canuckbirdstrike]

Sorry for not getting back into the discussion sooner, I was flying.

Aircraft weather radar has absolutely no demonstrated effect on birds. There have been several reviews/studies of this, plus analysis of bird sensory systems and they just can't sense the EMP at the low power that is emitted by aircraft radar.

Similar studies on lights were "inconclusive". Caged birds had absolutely minimal reactions to strobe lights.

As for the anectdotal information of turning on the radar while taxying and the birds move, I will respectfully say that it is more related to the noise and movement of the aircraft that causes the birds to move.

However, if it makes you feel good, turn on the radar!

The most effective bird strike mitigation tools are:

1. On the airport: An effective wildlife management program supported by pilots reporting bird activity to ATC.

2. In the air: Below 10,000 feet, keep the speed to 250 knots or less - aircraft and engines are not certified for the impact of larger birds at speeds above 250 knots and the data clearly shows that if you are going to hit anything at higher altitudes it will be waterfowl and raptors.

3. Report all bird strikes - to ATC as soon as possible and to the state authority. The data is invaluable for tracking down problems.

Richard Sowden

[A Very Civil Pilot]

Compressor stall

Many landings in the UK with lights on, and no sign of any Kangaroos. Perhaps your theory doesn't hold true in the Northern hemisphere :ok:

[Techman]

It is true that the USAF have experienced a drop in bird-strikes on takie-off hwen the radar was on. However, as civilan radars are at much lower energy levels than military counterparts, there is very little concen or use oi radar in the take off phase.