Cirrus SR22 question

[MichaelJP59]

We had one of these great-looking aircraft land at Sheffield yesterday.

Looking inside, the aileron/elevator controls took the form of sidesticks, but not like an Airbus sidestick, more like a traditional push-pull yoke with a sort of handle attached.

Here's a pic of a similar model:-

http://www.ac-aircraftsales.com/SR22_sn_13_Interior.jpg

Anyone who knows anything about this type? I was wondering how it feels, as it seems that the neutral position is canted over? Does it take a lot of getting used to? How much does the stick deflect each way?

Thanks,
- Michael

[Fly Stimulator]

The side stick control takes surprisingly little getting used to.

Within a few minutes it seems entirely natural, though I did learn to fly in a Shadow microlight so I'm used to the side stick system.

The Shadow offers less preparation for the SR22's 180-knot cruising speed, and if you went flat out heading down past west London you'd be over France by the time you could get a word in to Farnborough, especially if Aussie Andy is on frequency at the time! ;)

The control loads are well balanced and the aircraft is very responsive. The trim is controlled by a 'coolie hat' switch on top of the side stick.

The neutral position is indeed canted over, as shown in your photo. The armrests in the doors are very well placed so everything falls naturally to hand.

Lovely machines.

[Dave Unwin]

I've flown the 20 and the 22, and the sidestick (I think Cirrus actually call it a side yoke) is very pleasant to use. After a couple of minutes you soon get used too it.

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Michael,

We are a Cirrus Service Center. SR22's are a fantastic aircraft from both the flying and maintenance side. The current panel looks like this:

http://www.cirrusdesign.com/images/cockpit-off.jpg

I spend a lot of time with new owners going over the Avidyne Panels (Avidyne Entegra Primary Flight Display [PFD], Avidyne FlightMax EX3000C Multi-Function Display [MFD]) and how to use them in conjunction with the dual Garmin GNS-430s. The flying is simple and intuitive, leaning how to use all the information available to you efficiently, takes a little time. ;)

Happy Flying,

Capt. Richard J. Gentil, Pres.
Naples Air Center, Inc.

P.S. I have found the GNS-430/Avidyne combination to be better than the new Garmin 1000.

[MichaelJP59]

Interesting info. One thing was this Cirrus was on an N-reg, presumably because it can't get a CofA over here?

I suppose that's why they're quite a rare sight.

- Michael

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Michael,

The CAA is waiting for the testing data on the Cirrus Airframe Parachute System (CAPS).

http://www.cirrusdesign.com/images/caps-a.jpg

Cirrus Airframe Parachute System (CAPS) (http://www.cirrusdesign.com/aircraft/safety/CAPS/)

That is the current sticking point for the approval.

Take Care,

Richard

[Flyin'Dutch']

The latest gen on this at Aerofair was that the JAR certification is due to be announced any minute now!

With regards to the DME and Approximate Direction Finder issue (non needed in the States but insisted upon by those who like windup clocks over here) there are two rumours one is that they hope that EASA will take the enlightened view that these things should only be displayed in a museum rather than relied upon for flight navigational purposes, the other is that they are working on a remote unit which will be accessed through the MFD.

Either way they are great machines and whenever I took mates up in the Cirrus and let them have a go they were used to the sidestick by the time it was time to rotate on take-off.

Richard, does that mean you operate a few of these fine machines as well now? Don't tell me the answer is yes! Would have to book some more time in Naples asap then!

FD

[Fly Stimulator]

I suppose that's why they're quite a rare sight.

They're not that rare anymore. There are four at my west London airfield alone and the 100th to be sold in Europe (N100EU) was delivered last year.

[FNG]

Are there yet any available for PPL hire? Obviously, it would not come cheap, but I would not mind trying one. As for the side stick, anything is better than a steering wheel.

[Fly Stimulator]

A group scheme rather than hire here (http://www.cirrus147.com) but the minimum hours commitment may bit a little over-the-top just for trying out the aircraft.

[ThePirateKing]

Alternatively, if you make contact with Ian through the web site, he will undoubtedly be thrilled to visit you to organise a "test drive". Very friendly, helpful and flexible.

TPK:ok:

[FNG]

Thanks for the link FD. Judging by the website, that looks like a fairly nifty organisation, and the rates are not unduly heinous. I might well get in touch.

[max roll rate]

Hi Peeps
the SR22 in question was N5084V it is a G2 version and operated at the moment by the uk agent based at Turweston, im sure that they would be glad to answer any questions you may have on any of the cirrus range, I know Ian well and he is a great ambassador for cirrus but it has to be said so are most people that have been lucky enough to get there hands on one.
I have flown both the 20 and the 22 they are both stunning machines very fast but so easy to fly and as has already been said the side stick is not an issue your brain sorts it out in a jiff.
I will add a link to Nick and Russ at Turdy they are good lads and will be sure to let people come see the toys.

http://www.cirrusaircraft.co.uk

regards max

[Charlie Zulu]

Flyin'Dutch,

If Richard's answer is yes then I'm just going to have to hire one for the second week of my trip to NAC at the end of next month (assuming I have the multi all wrapped up in the first week)!

A trip up the east coast to New York in a Cirrus? Oh yes... now I'm starting to think about this...

Richard (NAC), please let the answer be yes!!!

:D

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Charlie Zulu & Flyin'Dutch,

I am sorry but the answer for now is No. :(

Nikki and I have looked into adding S22's to the fleet but the only stumbling block is the insurance company. The minimum pilot flight times they want are just too high right now.

If they ever come down, you will see them on the flight line. :ok:

See you in Naples,

Richard

[IO540]

Re the cirrus147.com site, how can they do what appears to be ad-hoc rental of an N-reg, without a Dry Lease?

I suppose one could download a lease document off the booking website, print it out, sign it, fax it to some number, all before the booked flight date. Maybe this is what they do but I didn't check.

I also couldn't see a minimum flying time requirement but I would never rent out such a plane unless the pilot was going to be doing say 30hrs/year; less than that and he will not be sufficiently current on the type, IMHO.

[Fly Stimulator]

IO,

They don't do ad-hoc rental.

As the web site says here (http://www.cirrus147.com/rentalpilot.htm) "Member Pilots enter into a One year Usage Agreement with FreeFlight Aviation Ltd." and "Flying Bands are available to suite (sic) all, from as little as 25 hours a year up to 100 hours"

Ian is an occasional poster here and I'll point out this thread to him, but for detailed queries just mail him - his address is on the web site and he loves to talk Cirrus!

[FNG]

I think I'll give this a go.

[valenii]

FNG and IO

I run the cirrus147.com group that the "stimulator" talked about!!! (he has flown with us too)!

Some points to note on this thread.

European Certification was awarded last week. EASA did not do any more spin testing or modifications. They just simply saw sense and told the member states to get with it it would seem....

From talking to the Cirrus folk, it seems that the CAA definately had a Not Invented Here attitude, making the paper work unduely hard for Cirrus....

Our group operates like this:

Its designed to bring "mini-ownership" to people and being Cirrus flying to more than those that can afford a whole plane.

Basically there are two complimentaty schemes, Shareholders Pilots contribute Capital towards a plane, and in return recieve a number of hours "at cost" per year for the life of the plane, depending on the investment. Typically £50k will get you 75 hours a year at cost (£57/flight hour ex vat Dry)

Member Pilots do not contribute any capital but fly at a higher rate. They are limited in booking flexibility allowing the shareholders to have first stab.

All pilots signs up for a number of hours per year and their dry costs are split into 12 standing orders, spreading the cost of flying over the whole year. Individual flights are not then billed and (like an owner) you can just book the plane and fly it, just paying for the fuel. If you fly "in band" there are no other charges.

Anyway the spirit of the group is to fly the best planes possible in the most cost effective fashion, and in a way the group can continue to expand.

We expect to get two more Cirrus aircraft in the next 6 months.

They will be staying on the N register!!!!

Anyway I hate the beurocracy and love the flying. If anyone wants a ride in a Cirrus, and can fit into my schedule and get to Denham, then I'm up for it. Just get the landing fees and coffee if we land away.

Ian

http://www.cirrus147.com/howitworks.htm

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Ian,

European Certification was awarded last week.

That is great news! :ok:

All the best,

Richard

[MichaelJP59]

Interesting scheme, Ian - if I read correctly, it seems to be like a more flexible approach to the usual shared aircraft plan i.e. you cater for differing % ownership.

"We expect to get two more Cirrus aircraft in the next 6 months."
Presumably based at Denham? We could do with someone running a scheme like this "up north"!

"They will be staying on the N register!!!!"
Presumably for FAA IR reasons?

Thanks,
- Michael
(Sheffield)

[ThePirateKing]

Michael,

I wouldn't like to speak for Ian, so it's quite conceivable that I'm wrong, but... AFAIK, once the next two aircraft have arrived, the fleet as a whole will be split between Denham, Booker and Blackbushe. There are local operating restrictions at Denham (caused by a combination of the owner, and being beneath the London TMA) which are more restrictive than IFR minima, meaning operating from there in less-that-ideal conditions is tricky.

There is a page somewhere on Ian's site which lists the interest received from different places. If I recall rightly, it was quite tricky to find and slightly out of date. My experience is the Ian is very open and approachable, and if there was sufficient interest (i.e. sufficient investors to cover a large percentage of the purchase price of a new aircraft) then new aircraft could be based pretty much anywhere.

Having said that, one of the benefits of the scheme is that you invest in a particular aircraft, but have access to the whole fleet. If you have a one-off aircraft up north somewhere, accessing the rest of the fleet might be tricky.

Rgds,

TPK:ok:

[valenii]

TPK

You are probably right about Blackbush and Booker being the next locations , but the way the shareholder's deed is worded, the locations of each aircraft are decided by the shareholders of that aircraft....

Ian

[SR20flyDoc]

The first D-Echo SR20 is now EASA registered (still without required Mode S transponder). It's not known if it's also IFR certified with the 2 Garmin 430's and without ADF/DME

[valenii]

SR20flyDoc

I asked these questions in Berlin.

It would seem that the plane is certified as is, so while certified for IFR, any restrictions you place on the way you fly based on the equipment in the plane would still apply.

(For example you may be silly to attempt a NDB/DME approach to minima in real IMC without that equipment!)

[2Donkeys]

Being approved in general terms for flight under IFR does not approve an aircraft for flight in any given airspace. An aircraft without DME and NDB equipment (GPS substitution not acceptable) may not fly under IFR in class A airspace in the UK - This applies regardless of its country of registry.

2D

[IO540]

Perhaps a question more applicable to the most likely UK-based SR22 pilot/renter would be whether one can legally do an NDB/DME IAP, especially one on which DME is mandatory, (other than in VMC with a safety pilot) without an ADF and without a DME.

[valenii]

Perhaps a question more applicable to the most likely UK-based SR22 pilot/renter would be whether one can legally do an NDB/DME IAP, especially one on which DME is mandatory, (other than in VMC with a safety pilot) without an ADF and without a DME.

I think the answer is you go somewhere with an ILS.....

Its a shame that GPS overlays are not official and published for these procedures in the UK as they are in Germany and the US.

Ian