Sunset or Downwind??

[TonyR]

I went for a short flight tonight in the Rallye, the cloud was broken at 3500 ft but it was getting brighter from the west.

My 400 yard strip is east-west and upon returning at about 9pm the sun was just right down the runway completly blinding me.

The wind was westerly at about 5 knots at EGAA (19 miles away) my sock was showing about 7-10 knot west wind.

I made 3 attempts to land on the west runway, I have to fly over trees and the sun was so strong I could not even see the trees.

I thought about a down wind landing on 09 but I have a few rules to follow here and NEVER EVER LAND WITH A TAIL WIND is one of them.

With about an hour and a half of fuel left I went off for another jolly and came back 30 minutes later when the sun was a bit lower (almost behind some hills) and a bit to the northwest.

I have had this experience before and have at times ask for another runway, even downwind if it is long enough.

Sunsets are wonderful but not when you are trying to land on a narrow, short, westerly field.

Tony

[Dewdrop]

I had this at the end of my QXC, certainly taught me two things:

1. Make sure your perspex screen is clear and scratch free.

2. Buy a good pair of sunglasses.

I think in the circumstances you did the right thing.

[Tinstaafl]

An option can be to fly an oblique final. This eliminates the alignment of a/c --> runway --> sun. Terrain, objects & familiarity will dictate when a normal final alignment must be achieved. I had to do this frequently in the Shetlands when I was based there.

[Monocock]

This is an interesting one and one that I frequently find catches me out. In fact, this time of year I positively avoid returning to my strip between 1900 and 2000 hrs for the very reason you are discussing especially as the first 100 m over the 27 threshold is slightly uphill and there is a risk of heavy contact if you are blinded.

If the cloud is broken I sometimes try and wait for the sun to be obscured for long enough to get in.

If I have plenty of fuel I will disappear for half an hour and come back when it's not so glaring.

I suppose I am fortunate that my 09 is slightly uphill so an early touchdown on the numbers gives a relativley "braking" landing run even with a tailwind. Saying this however, I avoid a tailwind landing unless it really is necessary. All that is needed for disaster is a bit of float, extended ground effect, wet grass etc and a long runway suddenly becomes a lot shorter. Equally, if it doesn't work and a go-around is opted for, giving full power with a tail wind gives a frighteningly poor accelaration !!!!

One thing to remember is that a low sun that is glaring MIGHT not be too bad in the last 50 feet as it MIGHT disappear behind some trees as the aircraft sinks down lower. Therefore, a descent to 50 ft over the dtrip might be an option to see if it's less of a problem at "flare" level.

On the whole, if fuel is not plentiful, the sun is really glaring and the tailwind is 7 kts +, I reckon the best bet is to find somewhere else to land. Most people must know of a better runway orientation for this situation that is within a few flying minutes.....

[FlyingForFun]

I had this problem when checking out on a Piper Arrow a couple of years ago. My ability to land just disappeared completely - to an extent that couldn't be explained by the few extra knots and a bit of extra weight compared to types I was used to.

My instructor figured out what the problem was - the runway we were using was directly into sun. We moved to a nearby airfield, and suddenly I was able to land. I'd have to check my logbook to confirm this, but I'm pretty sure I was signed off to solo the Arrow that evening.

As for landing in a tail-wind, there are two issues. First of all, what's the aircraft's tailwind limit? And second, is the field long enough? I took a PA18 into Tucson International a couple of years ago, and ATC directed me towards runway 11L for the departure. The wind was reported as 290/8kt. I guess an 8kt tailwind doesn't affect most of the aircraft which use the airfield (mainly airliners, with the odd F16 thrown in for good measure, and maybe a few spamcans) but there was no way I was going to try that in my Super Cub. ATC were extremely good about it, though, and gave me the option of either waiting while they changed runway (there were a few inbounds and a bit of circuit traffic that needed to be sorted out) or taking the crosswind runway instead, so I took the crosswind runway.

FFF
-------------

[Flyin'Dutch']

T,

Most of the airlines, so I understand, will not allow their crews to take more than 5 KTS on the tail.

If you have a look at the performance degradation by a tailwind (information can be gleaned from POH or the CAA safety leaflet) it will be clear that taking a tailwind on a short strip is not good.

I do what most do, wait for a bit or go elsewhere.

FD

[M14P]

Airline tailwind limits are usually about 10 knots (performance calculations account for 150% of TW component versus only 50% of HWC)

Landing with a moderate tailwind is an option if sunlight (or physical features of a strip) preclude another direction.

Be aware that very often, tailwind approaches 'feel' very much faster than the few knots of TW add to ground speed.

Other aspects that should be considered are:

- that faster 'feel' can cause the pilot to inadvertently reduce airspeed in order to restore the normal 'look' of the approach.

- Higher rate of descent in order to achieve a given approach slope can also feel unfamiliar and can cause a bit of 'ground shyness/early flare'.

- Any excess speed is amplified in terms of touchdown point

- Obvious performance calculations apply (see the first paragraph)

Finally, crosswinds that shear to a tailwind in the touchdown zone (you can monitor your GPS groundspeed/IAS difference as a rough guide) can wipe out precious airspeed just at the flare and surprise the pilot. Most common where the crosswind is 90 degrees from the left due to backing of the wind close to the ground. This also provides a fantastic excuse when you pile it in ("Oh yes, well, shearing tailwind, you see. Tricky!"). Don't use this as a reason to carry excess speed all of the time 'cos I get really wound up by the add-some-for-mum brigade!!!

Hope this is useful.