EVA Air 747 without nosegear at LHR

[Classic]

Arrived at LHR this morning to see an EVA 747-400 parked on stand but with its tail about 30' higher than it should be. Closer inspection showed no nosegear and the nose buried in the concrete.

Anyone know what happened?

[jd10k]

See the posts by LeezyJet (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=131313)

John :)

[fescalised portion]

Apparently the BA guys were troubleshooting a hydraulic leak on one of the main gears. This required lifting the landing gear lever to the up position. This wouldn't normally be a problem if the nose gear downlock pin is correctly installed, but the pin rests on the nose gear doors and when the doors opened as the first part of the gear sequence, the pin fell out as it wasn't correctly latched into position, consequently the nose gear retracted.
The aircraft also suffered damage to an entry door which came down onto a set of steps, which also set off the escape slide.
Unfortunately, the aircraft also settled onto the fixed electrical ground power unit, which got buried into the fuselage.
So I think that this might be a tad expensive to repair!

[piton]

Oops! :O

always wanted to raise the gear handle while parked & see if the weight on wheels/proximity/ overlock system worked - never had the guts...... now I know why!

[cirrus01]

Been done before.....no doubt that it will happen again :mad: :mad: :mad:


Northwest at LGW, Corseair at Cardiff and probably plenty of others......

You have got to feel sorry for all involved.... just imagine sitting on the flight deck, selecting "up" and then experiencing that sinking feeling. Ouch !:uhoh:

[expedite_climb]

oooh, been on board with this sort maintenance procedure being carried out. Must admit I was a tad nervous with the gear lever up and the 'Gear not down' eicas.....

[hobie]

that looks like its going to cost a small fortune to fix ? .....

[Engineer]

Did this procedure last month to determine the state of a hydraulic leak in the up line. It is a safe procedure IF the pins are installed correctly But as the picture shows make a mistake and it will bite you in the ar$e.

Will BA be footing the repair bill for this one and will EVA trust them to do the repair :O

[MadsDad]

Piton, according to rumour in the trade (systems testing) when they were testing the first airbus systems they did extensive tests on simulators and everything looked fine and they were due to start testing in a real aircraft.

Everything was installed, the chief tester came along, sat down in the pilots chair, raised the gear handle............... and got a nasty sinking feeling.:uhoh:

Does show you can't test everything in simulators.

[pprecious]

At risk of unleashing the usual Pprune ire on a simple question,

Does the aircraft slip down gracefully or fall like a brick?

And if its the latter then its a good job the maintenance guys were not underneath.......

[whauet]

pprecious,

You're not alone -- I was wondering the same thing.

Also, aside from the nose section, obviously, how much structure needs to be checked from something like this. Looks like the nacelles on engines #2 and #3 are resting on the ground, do you then have to check the pylons for stress, does possible damage then extend into the wing?

Just curious as to how much potential damage can be expected from an event like this?

Thanks!

[747FOCAL]

Well if it is anything like the 727 I saw sit on its butt it starts slowly and picks up speed fast. Probably more with how the airplane is loaded at the time. :ok:

[PPRuNe Towers]

Spanners,

Two different bits of the beeb been in touch with us at the Towers regarding using the photo. PM me if interested.

If not please ignore everything after, 'Good morning.'

Regards
rob

[codpiece face]

An engineer was killed not so long ago on a 737 when something was connected the wrong way round during maint and when the pumps where selected the nose gear retracted. At the end of the day aircraft can be replaced/repaired people cant.

[NigelOnDraft]

BA Engineering (if BA Eng did handle the EVA air incident) and 747 Nosewheels (up on ground) are regrettably becoming a theme:

AAIB Report G-AWNE (http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_avsafety/documents/page/dft_avsafety_501755.hcsp)

Note it quotes:In June 1996 a similar incident had occurredat the operator's engineering base at Cardiff (AAIB Bulletin 12/96). Following this earlier incident the staff at Cardiff made andactioned a number of recommendations to prevent a similar occurrence. These recommendations were not reviewed or actioned at the operator'smain base at Heathrow.

In February 1998 a similar incident occurredat the operator's Gatwick base. (I cannot find URLs for these 2...)

NoD

[moo]

Does anyone have further info/pics on the incident at cardiff in '96?

[TightSlot]

Please excuse non-tech dumbo question , but...

If this happened on the parking stand, why are the flaps extended?

[wryly smiling]

moo

There are plenty of pictures/info about cwl putting one on its arse if you ask the right people in the hangar

[SeldomFixit]

Virgin slit - any number of reasons the flaps could be extended. Wheels up landing inspection ..............:= defect rectification or inducement ( similar to pilot induced turbulence ) :O
Suspected birdstrike, lubrication of a drive system, rigging checks..........literally 100's of reasons, all non sinister with the exception of the first 2 tongue in cheek examples. :E

[Engineer]

No it was on final approach can see that by the attitude of the aircraft in the first photo. I tell you those hangar pilots get away with every thing. :D

[Notso Fantastic]

I'm interested in the comment 'the nose gear pin sits on the gear door'. I would have said 'nonsense!' I look right up there and can see the place to put the pin, and a red streamer hangs off the pin. It don't rest on anything.
I gather there was a ground power truck under the nose, and it has eaten that as well. They got it raised fairly quickly.

[SnapOff]

The downlock pin for a 747 can be a "fishing pole" type. It is about 2m long with an actuating system to put a lock in place to stop the pin coming out. This prevents you from having to climb up into the bay to put the pin in. When installed it does rest on the trailing edge of the moveable doors, so it is possible that as the doors open the pin got caught on the doors and was pulled out, however, I would have thought that the lock should stop this from happening. I got told by someone who should know that the system had already been operated 5-6 times before it all went horribly wrong. There by the grace of God............

[SeldomFixit]

"I got told by someone who should know that the system had already been operated 5-6 times before it all went horribly wrong. There by the grace of God............"

Good standard practice dictates that after upline checks are carried out, the gear pins should be magnafluxed to ensure no damage has been done during simulated "retraction". 5 or 6 times.........brave boys for mine.

Does anyone know if the NLG downlock pin " fell out " in one piece or was it sheared ? :ooh:

[ilovegordon]

why flap down - eva people said the aircraft inbound with hyd sys 1 leak. so it may be flaps they looking first and then landing gear... also said that r2 door / slide & rh forward belly gone wrong. any photo from the rh side spanner?

[Spekkie]

Saw a 747 do this at JNB once back in the 70's.
Saw them crane it back up again afterwards.

:-)

[gas path]

Does anyone know if the NLG downlock pin " fell out " in one piece or was it sheared ?
The pin was a 'long' (circa 2m?) pin left in by the tow crew (not BA!) The pin actually fell out, apparently after the several selections. There is every possibility that it may have got caught in the doors as they operated.

[srs what?]

I've seen pictures of the right hand side and there is definately damage to the R2 door and the slide has popped but I can't see where the power unit is.

[Airbubba]

This is indeed a repeat perfomance, for another example see:

http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/nwsing/photo.shtml

Depsite what the caption says, in the SIN incident a gear pin was inserted but for some reason a Boeing gear pin was not available. Instead, a locally made part consisting of an Airbus gear pin welded to a handle was inserted into the nosegear. When hydraulics were powered part of the nose gear door cycled catching the handle and pulling the pin. A ground engineer underneath saw what was going to happen next and quickly departed the area, escaping injury.

[woodpecker]

The luck must have been on the engineers side many years ago when a simular incident occured on the Britannia (the whispering giant)

He was under the nose when the gear retracted, but the fin on its way up hit the ceiling (of BOAC's new wing hangars) and arrested the descent of the nose inches above the engineer.

In aviation every new generation makes the same mistakes. Every new manager finds new ways of reducing safety and saving money.

There should only be one set of gear pins. They should be stowed on the aircraft, and when needed used correctly. No engineer/ towtruck driver should be allowed "his own set".

There is absolutely no point in the flight deck checking the "pins are on board" if some other set is fitted below!

End of sermon...

[Notso Fantastic]

In HKG during a wheel change, the local engineers, evidently not bothering to go up to the FD and get the pins, used some self made wire coathanger contraption instead. The F/E, doing his subsequent walkaround in the dark, missed this contraption and seeing no red flag in the high up lock in the dark, accepted the aeroplane. We spent a jolly hour flying around trying to get the main gear to move- it worked well! The poor F/E was thrashed within an inch of his job!
It's astonishing how familiarity breeds carelessness.

[Marcel_MPH]

Greatest story ever in Taipei.
A CI 747 also got bad damaged as someone tried to raise the landing gear with the gear pin not properly installed. The result was just like the EVA air 747 at LHR but........

To put the aircraft up again they used a kind of airbags which got slid under the nose of the aircraft an inflate causing the aircraft to raise. Problem was they overinflated the airbags.......:\ causing the aircraft to fell back on it's tail.....:{

Some people never learn.....

Marcel_MPH :cool:

[Nineiron]

My word Woodpecker, you've stirred some dormant memory cells!
Cycling around the LHR southern peri track one morning, to the old Comet hangars ( Terminal 4 now) ,I was very surprised to see the tail of a Hunting Clan Britannia sticking out through the roof - similar circumstances I believe.

[COWPAT]

If the beeb still want the photos from the thread can I suggest that one of the mods negotiate a fair rate and donate the funds to Capt Al Haynes.

[Drop and Stop]

Cowpat: I dont think the mods would be stupid enough to do that without the consent of the photographer involved.

[Weapons_Hot]

Word from the ROC is: 3 months AOG and +USD8M, without consequent loss of revenue, face, etc.
OOuch!:\

Marcel_MPH - your story is nearly correct, except that when the CI engineers overinflated the nose bag, and it was going to tip back on its arse, thankfully the hydraulic tail strut stand was under the right empennage which prevented the arse of this brand spanking shiney new B744 from hitting the ground. Unfortunately, the right tail fuel tank now had the tail stand sticking through it from bottom to top.;)

[wiggy]

The rumour doing the rounds amongst BA engineers on Sunday was that the gear handle was indded cycled several times and at some point in the process the nose gear pin sheared.

wiggy

[Marcel_MPH]

Weapons_Hot,
indeed you're right. The tail strut prevented the aircraft to go all way back on it's behind, unfortunately the impact of the aircraft going back caused the strut to be burried in the back.

Marcel_MPH :cool:

[Globaliser]

For anyone interested, there are some CI at TPE photos here (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/222285/M/), here (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/222284/M/) and here (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/222286/M/).

[Marcel_MPH]

The last 2 pictures give a good look on the strut inside the tail section.

Thanks to my close friend Frans for making these shots possible.

Marcel_MPH :cool:

[Onan the Clumsy]

Another dumb question: I don't know but I'm asuming the 747 is like the 737 and if you need to swing the gear, you jack the nose. How come inserting the jack isn't a backup safety feature in the SOP for this procedure? or for that matter put an airbag under the a/c. Relying on one pin seems a litle risky.

If the answer is that it'd be too expensive to have a jack on hand, well...

[Craig01b]

The engineer involved wished it had sheared....but that is highly unlikely....if they were using the fish pole type, its easy to insert the pin into the wrong holes, and it does not hold when gear is selected up...no other option but to get a stand and verify that the pin is in the right hole....human factors all the way. take your time, and balls on the delay. Yes, that pilot and station manager yelling in your ear should go away, but they will not unless you tell them to....:ouch: We as engineers appear grouchy sometimes....and for good reason, when thing go wrong because we are rushed...its usually very expensive.

I work at air canada, and we have some experience with 767;s on their nose, hopefully the jumbo is a little more tolerant...the last 767 in yyz required boeing to reinstall and laser level the avionics rack so everything lined up again...very costly. At least this one was outside, and its tail did not jam into the hangar roof...

CB

Go slow, and do it right....delays are easier to explain than incidents.....

reminds me of the joke about the old bull and young bull....*g*

[Plastic Bug]

Ya see folks, in every day ops, there are a myriad of "pins" inserted into the downlock of the 747 nose gear. It's a throwback to the 707 days when the nose gear could be pulled up during tow.

These are not meant to keep the gear from folding up if you power the system, pull the trigger override and put the gear handle up. They're there to keep the TUG from pulling the gear up. A belt and suspenders sort of thing. NO pin should REALLY be required for the downlock for routine ops (towing/pushback), but we are a superstitious lot and nobody really wants to prove that the pins aren't needed for a tow.

Having said that, there are a number of maintenance checks that require the gear be pinned with weight on wheels and the gear handle being placed in the up position and the system pressurized.

These are not infrequent in the hangar, but rare on the line. In any event, the rarity of this procedure on the line negates any excuse for not actually climbing up the strut and inserting the actual mark 1 mod 0 manufacturers gear pin.

Oh yeah, if I were doing a leak check, I would have opened the gear doors manually and locked them there via the ground handle. Then you could cycle the gear handle all day long and the doors would stay open. Both sides of the system would be powered, but the doors would stay open. In any event, this inadvertant retraction is NOT an uncommon event (unfortunately).

If memory serves me, a common reason for a nose drop is an AVO changing a #2 INS control head. In order to extract the box, the gear handle has to be up. AVO puts gear handle up, replaces the box, then goes for tea or coffee or some other distraction. Somebody powers the system and you get that sinking feeling.

Getting back to the pin getting pulled out by the doors, that's sort of unlikely. IF you are using the routine fishpole pin, I believe you have to tie the bar to the strut to prevent the thing from swinging forward and getting stuck between the doors when you put the handle back up and close the doors. Otherwise, you will be changing a pair of gear doors. I could be wrong on that point, it HAS been a while since I pinned a 747, but I am fairly certain.

Finally, you are not really locking the gear, you're locking the down lock. It's an overcenter design, so theoretically, looking at it funny should stop it from going over center. Could be wrong there as well, but.....

It IS possible that if the lock on the gear pin was defective, the vibration caused by moving the gear handle up and down (the airplane shakes and rattles when you do this procedure) COULD have caused the pin to fall out, but if there was a person standing there, ostensibly on the headset and looking for a leak, he or she would have seen the pin fall out if it didn't hit them on the head.

A rambling reply, but someone is destined for a management position. Of this, I am sure.

PB

[SnapOff]

Seems that a lot of people round here have perfect eyesight, including 20/20 hindsight!
Only a few guys were there, and doubtless doing their best, all humans screw up sometimes. These guys, guilty or not, are going to have to contend with the inevitable witch hunt. Good luck to you.

[Jhieminga]

Regarding that China Airlines 744 on its back: the jack didn't penetrate the tail, just the elevator. See image below.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/paul.robinson16/Slide7.JPG

[BigHitDH]

I bet that didn't polish out. :ouch:

[Marcel_MPH]

Also heard the aircraft was in service for only a few weeks. That must have cost a lot of money (and a job).

Marcel_MPH :cool:

[castorama]

Hi,

Seems that it was the second attempt with the lever. Yes, they used a "long" nose pin that was fitted corectly. However, the doors may have caught on the streamer and pulled it out on the first "retraction".

The nose pin was locally manufactured by BA and is approved for use under all circumstances. These pins are a cheap second compared to the Boeing part but are widely used within BA. Cost cutting that never pans out.

Rant begins

The local BA manager is known as the Village Idiot!! He has recently precided over one Engineer being sacked and another demoted. Mostly to cover for his own incompitance.

Rant ends


Casto

[cirrus01]

Plenty of villages must have donated to BA' s cause........
:D :D :D

[Airbubba]

>>The nose pin was locally manufactured by BA and is approved for use under all circumstances. These pins are a cheap second compared to the Boeing part but are widely used within BA. Cost cutting that never pans out.<<

Sounds a lot like the Northwest incident at SIN I mentioned earlier on this thread!

[Weapons_Hot]

Marcel
It had just landed from being delivered ex-KBFI (Boeing Field). The ink hadn't even dried on the Benjaman Franklin's before the tail stand penetrated the right elevator.:(

[Marcel_MPH]

Now that's a good way to start........

Marcel_MPH :cool:

[Mark Lewis]

Anybody know where it is now? No sign of it in the T3/T5 area on Wednesday?

[ilovegordon]

i guess the aircraft now is sitting inside hangar awaiting financial talks between both parties. if i'm not wrong standard iata service contract won't cover full liability of amount like this. busy time for the lawyers.

[fescalised portion]

Rumour control has it, that it will be out of service for 2-3 months and cost between $6-8M to repair. Apparently, when it landed on it's open nose gear doors (which looked like a venetian blind afterwards) it forced the whole nose gear bay upwards into the fuse slightly........Oh dear!

Apparently, there was one person slightly injured.....A bag ape was rifling through the galley, eating a lamb chop, when the aircraft dropped he went upwards, banging his head on the galley structure. He reportedly needed a few stitches and I would expect a clean pair of Y-fronts......Mind you, they were probably dirty before the incident anyway!

[KiloMIke]

Does anyone know if this aircraft is back in service yet?

I heard that it had only just left the hangar a few days ago.

[point5]

It departed on a LL-LL air test about 3 days ago. Don't know if it has now left or returned to hanger.

[gas path]

Returned from it's airtest 'nil defects'. Refueled and departed for home.:ok:

[BRISTOLRE]

silly question but where was the work done?

[ukeng]

Work done at BA's East Engineering base @ Heathrow.

[The Otter's Pocket]

Is it me, because I am sure that people are talking about photos, I can't seem to find the link, any ideas.

Rgds
TOP

[ukeng]

Here's one with the crash gang getting the airbags inflated.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/597696/M/

and another with the nose on the ground

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/592651/M/