VFR to Tangier

[Tristan Gooley]

I am hoping to take a VFR trip to Tangier (GMTT) from White Waltham in a PA28 this August. Does anyone have any tips for VFR in Spain or experience of Tangier? Thanks in advance.

[FNG]

I regret that I have no practical tips to offer, but for sheer inspiration you might take some St Exupery with you (particularly "Southern Mail" and "Wind, Sand and Stars " ), and there is a lavishly illustrated French book featuring Chuck Ellsworth and others flying a similar route in a Catalina. I'm very jealous. I would like one day to fly a similar trip and maybe continue to Dakar.

Others will no doubt chip in with practical help in a bit. Good luck.

[bluskis]

My last trip to Tangiers was in a Commanchee in 1974, so things may have changed. Then it was necessary to 'tip' customs, immigration, police, and anyone else in a uniform between you and airside. It was definitely a place where at least four captains bars helped.

Dont drink the water.

A Cherokee will take a long time, I guess about 18 hours, the Commanchee took 9 hour, and much of it over poor forced landing terrain in Spain.

Expect thunderstorms around Bairitz, and if necessary you can divert out to sea to avoid any combination of CBs and mountains.

Dont smuggle any of the local herbs.

If you can try landing at Gibralta, its an interesting one for the log book,

I am sure there are many other things I could add. It is certainly one of my more memorable flights.

[Jinkster]

This was covered (or similar route) a few months ago in one of the pilot mags. If youre interested I will try and dig it out.

PM me.

All the best,

Jinkster :)

[UV]

Simple!
Stick to the main Airports in Spain e.g. Malaga Alicante etc (met taxis hotels etc all easily accessable).
Flight Plan required for every flight in Spain (No problem).
Not allowed to fly from Spain to Gibraltar (or vice versa).
Debatable as to whether to leave your aeroplane overnight in Tangier (we wouldnt!).
Travel anti clockwise around Spain for the tailwinds ( land mass Low Px due heat in Summer).
All very easy.
UV

[Jinkster]

I am off to Gibraltar in June (holiday) and hopefully trying to get a trip across to Tangier (ferry). Is it worth going? What is there to see?

Cheers,

Jinkster

[Tristan Gooley]

Thank's everyone for the tips so far.
Jinkster, I'm using Tangier as a gateway to the Atlas Mountains, hoping to drive to Imlil in 4x4 then climb Toubkal. One life and all that!

[Evo]

for sheer inspiration you might take some St Exupery with you (particularly "Southern Mail" and "Wind, Sand and Stars " ), and there is a lavishly illustrated French book featuring Chuck Ellsworth and others flying a similar route in a Catalina.


I'd agree about St. Exupery - Wind, Sand and Stars is a fantastic book IMHO - and "Un vol de légende sur les traces de l'Aéropostale" (featuring Chuck) is also excellent. It's in French, but he pictures are good too :)

It's a trip i'd love to do as well.

[CBG]

We just came back from a VFR trip from Normandy to Ougadougou, Bamako, etc in 4 DR400 and one HR100. The excuse was to deliver some medical supplies to an NGO down there. Tangier was our second leg.

All I'd say is: go for it! If you can fly in the UK, Spain and Africa will be no problem (do take a GPS if you want to cross the Sahara though!).

First leg: Bernay (LFPD) to Saragoza straight across the Pyrenees at FL125. After refueling, onto Tangier via CMA, YES (Yeste's VOR), GDA, MGA (if you fly high over Malaga airport they won't bother you), Spanish controler are great, they usually don't bother answering your calls unless you are withing 20 nm of a major airport or big TMA.

Tangier's prevailing winds are such that RW10 is usually in use. Watch the storks. There is a nest next to the RWY and they can be found on the actual runway (we found that out as we were taking off).

Flying in Morocco is also very straighforward. However, they do insist on flying VFR via specific routes (especially around Casa and Rabat (give me a call if you want more info. Chris at 07887 50 30 63).

We then flew down to Agadir, Laayoune (if you want to fly south of Morocco, you'll need overflight authorisations). You might also be out of reach of Casa radar and you may need to have airliners relaying your calls. We did a bit of that and then gave up. We just talked to each other on 123.45. Then straight across the desert to Atar (Mauritania). Atar-Mopti (Mali) was the longest I flew in a GA airplane (nearly 6 hours). I did fall asleep at the controls! (the other guy took over).

Mopti-Ouagadougo (burkina faso): fun and no problem.
Ouaga-Bamako and Bamako-St Louis (senegal): a bit long but fun (especially going to have a look at St Louis...in the plane

St Louis- Nouadhibou: great stuff. Actually, the route St Louis-Nouadhibou-Laayoune back up to Spain is the Aeropostale route. Flying over Cap Juby where St Exupery was Head of Station for Aeropostale makes you understand why he started writing: not much else to do there!

Laayoune- Ouarzazate: interesting!

Ouarzazate-Almeria via Fez and Al Hoceima. OK, except for the plane (see below).

Almeria-Sabadel (we diverted due to ****ty weather)

Sabadel to Moulins: we wanted to fly straight back to Normandy but we had to make our way through the Rhone valley because of crappy WX over France. We got stuck in Moulin for a day and a half.

Moulin-Bernay last Sunday.

I am now back in London and I am already thinking about taking the plane back to Morocco as soon as I can get away for 4 days!

Highlights (apart from falling asleep at the controls!): flying at tree top level (but still at 500ft - they do have tall trees over there) over villages with kids coming out of schools to wave at us (others running into huts to hide), flying very low (but still at 500ft) over thousands of flamingos, sharing jokes on the radio with bored 747 pilots high up, etc. Only a couple of glitches: while flying rather low...but still at 500ft over villages in South Mauritania I did see people aiming guns at us. I don’t know if they actually tried to shoot us down but if they did – I am glad for their poor aiming capabilities. The other interesting bit of flying was the fact that the engine ran rough over the Mediterranean (we crossed between Al Hoceima in Morrocco and Almeria in Spain, not the narrowest bit of sea!). We decided to bring the plane back as it was and I flew this thing running on 3 cylinders all the way from Southern Spain to Bernay. The vibrations were horrendous and I though the engine would pack up at any time! It held though. And after all: we did deliver the medical supplies to the NGO in Bamako!

It now surely beats flying to Compton Abbas for lunch!!

Anyway, we have posted some pics on bellapix.com, under "africa", "rallye aerien", "ouaga-chris", etc.

Again, do call me if you want to have a chat

By the way Tristan, I am still flying from LFPD but I recently relocated to London. I am going to have to find a way to fly here in the UK. White Waltham is my nearest airfield (I live in Hammersmith) and I am thinking about driving out there this coming Sunday (I\'ll be in North Weald on Saturday) to have a look at shares available. I\'d welcome some tips or information if you can offer any.

I am flying on a UK CAA PPL which I got a while back at Blackbushe - at European Flyers, "interesting company" but brilliant instructors (you hear this Ben, Mark and Nolan?)

[Dantruck]

Be sure to check your NOTAMs for Malaga (LEMG) when the time comes.

During the summer Malaga is closed to VFR traffic Thursdays to Sundays, inclusive. No problemo on Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays.

The nearest alternative is La Axarquia (LEAX), a small tarmac strip a few miles east of Malaga.

PM me if you need more.

Dan

[IO540]

LEAX is OK; I've been there last year. Very little going on except some banner towing. I would phone ahead to make sure there is actually somebody there if you need fuel :O

DO watch out for fence posts hidden within tall grass, very close to the runway/taxiway. No airfield in the UK (where training takes place) would be allowed to have them.

[Jodelman]

Might seem obvious but don't forget that Spain/Morocco in August are HOT.

Hope the PA28 has air conditioning!

[Foz2]

Can you not fly into Gib via Portugal so as not to piss off the Spanish??

Foz

[NinjaBill]

There is a story here http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/usworth84/richards_trip_portugal.htm about two guys who flew to the algarve in an AA5 from teeside. I dont know if its any use, but its an interesting read :)

NB

[Jinkster]

Foz,

Portugal into Gib sounds ok however I would check with the ATC at GIB (LXGB) +35053383

Just on another note - got back from Gib this afternoon and left the rock with 30C temps and clear skies

:p

[UV]

Foz
Yes, you can fly from Porugal or anywhere else for that matter, except Spain, directly into Gibraltar. No problems.
Done it many times.

CBG
You say you flew from Southern Spain to Bernay on 3 cylinders,with horrendous vibration (not surpised).
How far is that and Why, I beg?
UV

[Tristan Gooley]

Thanks for all the new advice, much appreciated.

I have been warned by some that Tangier is not a good place to leave an a/c for a few days. I must admit I'm surprised that a reasonably sized international airport is not up to this? Can anyone shed any more light on this? I'd consider ending the flying in Spain/Gib and getting the ferry over if it really is that bad, but it's hard to know - never landed there.

[Jinkster]

The ferry from Spain leaves from Algeciras (the other side of the bay to Gib).

If you need any further info PM me and I will see if I can dig any more info out.

Jinkster

[UV]

We spoke earlier.
We did not fancy leaving ours there so returned to Gib.
However that was pre 9/11 , so maybe there is more Security now.
UV

[Tristan Gooley]

Just a quick note to say thanks for all the advice (both practical and St Exupery-related, in this thread and from searches). It was very useful - I got back safely from Tangier a couple of days ago after a fantastic trip and have now read a couple of St Exupery's books as well!

Link to trip write up and pics hopefully to follow.

Cheers

Tristan

[Wrong Stuff]

And what was the verdict on leaving the aircraft in Tangier - any problems?

[Tristan Gooley]

Tangier seemed fine from a security point of view. ATC was a bit ropey, but they seem to get enough stuff in and out of there safely so it must work somehow. Customs were friendly in a North African kind of way. Got ticked off by ops when we returned for not leaving a contact no. (they wanted us to move to allow some military rotary traffic to park where we were). We explained that we were on a mountain and they gave us the 'mad dogs and Englishman' look and let us go on our way.