Dibden Manor: Nice place but...

[Glaws]

Can anyone tell me how you can go down to the CTC selection day for phase 2, do group excercises, a personal presentation, 2 exams and have an answer via Email telling you whether you have passed or not within 2 hours of leaving the premises? I fail to see how they can properly assess a candidate in that space of time.

I went down some 4 weeks ago to do this stage and obviously did not get through and since then a number of friends have gone the same way and been told sorry but no you did not get graduate to Phase 3.

We are all English and Modular rather than Integrated and from Continental Europe. I wonder.......

And yes before some smart A*se says I am just bitter and twisted, I know I am. Also I apolojize if me spelleng is not 100 persente , (I know how you all like to jump on that bandwagon)


Discuss.

[Louis Euan]

Check your PM's

[TRon]

Since most people posting on this board are not airline recruiters I dont think it is fair for us to speculate as to what is a 'fair space of time' to be told whether you have passed or failed. If you had been successful I would imagine you would be thinking how great it was you heard so quick and not trying to rally all the people CTC have failed together on a public forum and chew over their failings as recruiters. If that makes you feel better then great, but it wont change the outcome.

I imagine CTC have made ther mind up about you from your presentation, Maths/Tech Tests and group excercises inside this unfair 2 hour period. How long in the real world do you think they actually talk about you? Would you have prefered a phone call two days later, or maybe 2 weeks?, or maybe wait there and have the usual roll call of pass/fail candidates like for RAF Selection which is considerably less than 2 hours and I dont hear many complaining about that. It is called being efficient.

As far as CTC are concerned most fall into two categories: those that hate the place; those that love it. They have a proven track record of providing low hour pilots to airlines where the bottom line is minimum training cost and 'is this guy going to fit in?' If CTC can do this within 2 hours of meeting you, then who are we to say it is unfair? They are the professional recruiters, not us.

With around 12 new IR's issued every day Europe wide and 1000 or so low hour guys just in the UK and 45-50 places on their scheme of which 4-5 actually go in the pool every month this will give you some idea of the competition and the waiting time. I would hazard a guess this is why you can never re-apply.

You need to remember every recruitment process is fallable, we are all human right? I failed 2 airline recruitment days but got through CTC. I dont remember getting on here and moaning it was unfair.

I did modular, I am English and I didn't pass all my groundschool first time. To insinuate they are taking preference over our European counterparts is very spiteful and naive. Blame JAR and the EU, not CTC for giving everyone a chance. It appears to be the only place where if you are good enough, you will get through rather than 'Daddy plays golf with the Cheif Pilot' and I did Integrated at Oxford..

I know it stinks, and you are now left wondering what the hell to do but this isn't the place to vent your frustrations. You and almost everyone else on this board will find something. It is just a matter of time and a bucket load of effort.

Best wishes for the future.

[jmc1980]

Glaws,

Well I am from continental Europe and modular, and accepted to stage 3! In fact, I was at stage 2 4 weeks ago also, so we must have met.

I completely understand how disappointed you must be...I too have already failed a few pilot selections, and each time I felt like my dream was in tatters. Like TRon said it is a very competitive business and although I will go to CTC next week completely determined and with a postive attitude, I have to be realistic: statistically there's a good chance that I won't make it. It's part of the game, however tough it may be. However, if I fail, i will surely not put the blame on ctc, and I will certainly appreciate the fact that they let me know whether I've passed or not in the shortest possible time. It is a sign of efficiency and respect for those who undergo selection, nothing else. ctc have a great reputation for providing extremely competent and capable low hour pilots to major airlines and somehow I don't think they would risk that reputation by neglecting their selection process.
I know all this will not make you feel any better, but remember - in a week's time I may be in the same situation wondering what to do next!

TRon - excellent post. when did you go through ctc? Are you still in the pool? Any advice for those of us about to attend phase 3?

cheers guys!

jmc

[Tigers]

With reference to the post made by Tron this is indeed a public forum so why not come on here and air your opinions and views, thats what its here for after all be it they are negative or positive.

I have first hand experience of selection for the RAF/RN, not only as an applicant but also as as someone who got through and I can tell you they dont make their minds up in that space of time. The aircrew are invited to spend 3 days at either RAF Cranwell or HMS Sultan to undergo tests and evaluations. I believe that they assess you throughout to make a decision, not in a 2 hour window.

I have not been down to the CTC scheme but have heard several views on it from guys I have spoken to who have gone down, I agree it is a great scheme for a low houred guy to get through but Glaws does indeed have a point it does seem a quick turn around for a decision, all I can imagine is that they have an exact profile that they are looking for.

[torpedoaway]

Well, why don't we all look at this from another perspective.

What are CTC looking for?

Since we have brought up the subject of lots of Europeans lets stick with that. Why would they want more Europeans than English? Simple, if you want to spread the word of your company throughout the states its best to get people talking about you really and the cheapest way to do that is to take them on! Let’s be realistic, they want offices all over Europe; where in some states there aren't even corporate taxes! Why oh why do the English always have to look out for everyone else first, do we really think Air France would take on an English person instead of a National! God forbid!

By now you're either thinking that my God he's right! Or he's insane and probably didn't get through. Then you'd be right on both counts. I attended last year and I was dismissed in the usual 30 seconds of thought by the panel, and so were some fast jet/herc pilots and helicopter pilots who were way out of the league of all of whom got through to the end. Incidentally they were European integrated, far superior to our armed forces training admittedly (??).

Another oddity is during the personal presentation, did anyone else notice how they started writing furiously if you mentioned you did your ppl somewhere other than England? But wait, lets go back, why are they writing about you in your presentation? Why do they ask what degree you have or what school you attended? Perhaps if they had even bloody looked at the application I spent 234 hours on filling out the most ridiculous questions they might not need to ask. So from that we can deduct that they don't even look at it when they are deciding whether you get through, great all that wasted effort working my balls off for the ATPL's so that Pac-man and Ms Penelope can brush it aside like yesterdays newspaper.

Anyway, I have a great plan which will hopefully see an end to CTC and its discrimination and make sure that the English look after the English first, then we'll consider everyone else.

Gosh I'm exhausted.... where's that croissant?

ps if any of the grammar/spelling is incorrect and someone nit picks, I think they'd have a good chance of getting through CTC.

pps if any one mentions they are assessing our confidence and public speaking skills during the personal presentation, this I know. Still it is not a time to make bloody notes about you when they should have a copy of your app in front of them.

ppps I'm not racist, in fact I like continental Europeans it just that someone needs to stand up and look after their own.

pppps Can someone tell me why there are so many Australians in our airlines when we wouldn't stand a chance at getting in down there (I don't want to but it would be nice to have the option!).

[Glaws]

Here, here.

Well done Torpedo man, its about time someone aired these thoughts on this forum.

Why are we so keen to open up our job market to all the other nations of the world when in reality we should be looking after our own. Maybe when all the UK national pilots have dried up then we could entertain the thought of recruiting Antipodeans, but they do tend to moan an awful lot. Whingeing Poms, my Ar*se. You should hear them moan.

UK airline, UK pilots.

Have a nice day.

[UKPILOT]

Whilst I am in no way opposed to EU pilots being given a fair chance to compete for jobs in the UK market, I only wish that this opportunity was given to UK pilots in the EU.

I am a type-rated pilot who has applied to many companies and operators within the EU (outside of the UK). And in my experience applications abroad are very very rarely given any consideration. I think out of the 25 or so applications I have completed, I have received 1 or 2 replies - obviously "No".

Whilst the CTC scheme does seem to prefer integrated students, and those from EU countries excl. UK, it is not the only company opening itself up to EU pilots. I have recently heard of several UK and Irish operators who have offered jobs to UK low houred pilots, only to cancel them at the last minute to give the job to European contract pilots.

Now this "may" be a case of giving the job to a more experienced pilot from within the EU, but how are UK pilots ever going to get the experience to compete??

UK operators must be careful to ensure they give the UK market an opportunity to grow, and the fair chance it needs, or the future for UK pilots and training schools will continue to look bad.

[Caracul]

Just one question. Did you get feedback from CTC as to why they chose not to take you? If so, what did it say? And if not, have you asked for it?

Oh and torpedoaway , whats your great plan? I'm intrigued...

[Glaws]

CTC make it quite clear that they will not give ANY feedback on your application. Strange but true.

[Poontang Luva]

Glaws and Torpedoaway,

You 2 are quite funny i must admit, I mean sure us Skips have a sook every now and then especially when we loose any sporting event. We whinge big time then. But i mean you two have started the ultimate 'Whinging' thread right here!

You went for selection and didnt get through. Big F*CKIN DEAL. Welcome to the real world. I'm sure you werent the only ones to get the boot. Lifes full of hard knocks and on the day they decided there were better candidates than you. Reading your comments its not hard to see why!

Glaws, UK Airlines, UK pilots. Fair comments i spose. But then again all us Australians (and every other foriegn pilot) have a British or EU passport, therefore we can work here. So on paper we are just as employable as you, just have a different accent..... 'mate'. If they select us foriegners, im sure their not goin, hey we'll hire that Aussie over a UK lad/lass. We just happned to be what they were after on the day.

Anyway, get over it. You didnt get selected. Dont take it so personally. Aviation is one hard industry to get into. A true test of ones character to see how you react to rejection. Do you take it on the chin and persue the next opportunity or do you pi$$ and moan about it? And cry about how the whole worlds against you? If you carry on like this and blame others (selection methods, the interview panel, foriegners) for your current situation and not take a closer look at yourself to see how you can improve and stand out, well enjoy staying unemployed for a very long time.

Have a nice day 'cobber'! :ok:

PS - Tron your comments are spot on.

[torpedoaway]

Just because we won the rugby.


(all hands brace for impact)

ps Caracul I will PM you when the time has come to unleash the plan!

[wheelbarrow]

torpedoaway

Your xenophobic comments, whilst amusing to some, could be perceived as highly offensive to others.

Take your chip off your shoulder, dust yourself down and move on.

Good luck.

Glaws

It is a tough world out there.. especially for the jet jobs initially.

However, as an ex CTC cadet, employed in UK charter airline flying... with a German parent company, who have just "loaned" us 12 German Luthansa cadets for up to 2 years... I am perfectly happy to see our European brethren flying our aircraft. They are all legally entitled to work here and speak excellent English and have faultless records.

Perhaps if UK wannabees stopped whingeing as much and worked on learning German, French, Spanish etc you may dp better in your search for work on the continent.

And before you slate me by saying "we could never get a job with Lufthansa".... one of the "German" cadets is an ENGLISHMAN who made the effort to learn German and got on the cadet scheme.

End of story.

Life IS fair, you just have to make your own luck.

[torpedoaway]

Fluent in German, French and Spanish. NEXT!

By the way

Your xenophobic comments, whilst amusing to some, could be perceived as highly offensive to others.

Do you really think so! This is hardly a PC conversation is it! What do you expect oh barrow of wisdom.

[wheelbarrow]

torpedoaway

I actually hope you grow up. And I hope you get a grip of your emotions.

If you cannot accept that I have given you some facts, then tough.

You probably aren't good enough to get on the course, that is the truth of it.

From your attitude on here, I am not surprised either.

The realities remain as I showed you in my previous post. That IS what IS happening in the business NOWADAYS.

All I can say is this: You are low houred, and I am glad because you won't get a job in the company I work for until you have a lot more hours and have grown up a bit.

I look forward to seeing you when you have matured somewhat.

Is that enough wisdom for you from my barrow? :mad:

[JT8]

A couple of points regarding the ATP scheme:

If they didn't want any modular uk students they wouldn't have wasted their time inviting you for selection.

Approx 2/3 of the total applicants are not from the uk. No surprise that more of these guys therefore get through.

[Poontang Luva]

Torps,

Yeah u won the rugby. Good on ya 2! Its about time the English won at a sport they actually invented - i mean it seems for as long as I can remember every other nation would teach you lessons on how to play your own games!! HAW HAW HAW Just kiddin. :E

But if u wanna get into the rugby thing, yeah we lost. And from my pov we didnt deserve to win. We didnt play like winners and were lucky to make the final. Having said that i would have preferred to lose to any other nation except for maybe South Africa! :}

Anyway, i've moved on.............will you? (Yeah theres a double meaning in there son)

Take heed of Wheelbarrow's advice. You and Glaws do really need to grow up.

Actually im wrong, dont. Be yourselves and dont change. The rest of us wannabees need people like you going to interviews, coz when people who actually are decent (like yours truelly of course!:p) follow you, we will look sooooo much better in the inteviewers eyes!

[Glaws]

Bad luck Poontang or whatever you call yourself, I secured a job with an airline within 2 weeks of being rejected by CTC. Just a shame we will never know if we ever meet.

Deal with it.

This is a great site to reel in suckers like you.

Swing low and all that...

[luckyPierre]

Come on fellas its pretty obvious these guys are winding you all up!

Sense of humour?

Its refreshing to see someone having a laugh in here for once!

[torpedoaway]

Dear Wheelbarrow,

I'm not good enough to get on the course hey? I think that my results during my training would surprise you, certainly more than yourself I expect. But forget about me, what about the best of the best armed forces pilots and their inablility to get in? It's simple, they're looking for sheep not leaders. A wet sponge if you will that they can beat until they're a mindless drone, much like yourself I expect.

I can accept rejection no problem. It's when you're rejected and then they withhold the reason; for sport I expect. That or they can't/won't justify as its probably for immoral reasons.

Besides, you bore me. Don't reply as I shan't be looking again and if you must you can say whatever you want because I simply do not care. I was just sticking up for my country as many of you would, at least I hope you would.

Question: Whoever stated that I had low hours?

ps Wheelbarrow, if you're English you should be ashamed of yourself and I consider you a traitor. Send out the squad.

pps Hope this wasn't too emotional for you.

ppps I’m not having a laugh, I hate you all. Now go to your rooms (ha!).

[Poontang Luva]

Hey Glaws,

Good on ya! Congrats on the job!

"Bad Luck"? Dude i dont take any pleasure in people failing to get where they want to. Sorry if that dissapoints you.

Umm but what exactly do you want me to 'Deal With'? :confused: That we'll never meet? I'm sure ill manage :ok:

If your happily employed why bother starting a thread like this? To 'sucker' people in? Does that make you feel 'big' or 'special' or more 'important'?

Mate you have the dream..... dont be such a sack :)

Hope your enjoying the flying with your airline.

Pierre - Yeah i know mate, but had an afternnon to kill so i bit for some fun! If i thought this was serious I would have been more offended than anything. :}

PS - Torps your right. Not getting feedback on your performance during an interview does suck, as you obviously dont know what areas you need to improve for next time. See even a lowly Aussie can agree with you on some things! Cant we all just get along? Who feels like a hug? :E

[Splat]

Can I make a suggestion, and that is that you all go on a CRM course - preferably the same one at the same time......

[Glaws]

Very big very special. Must find something better to do on my days off.

My sincere apologies to you Putang you are clearly upset. Can I suggest you fire up the barby.

Love and kisses

G

[TRon]

topedoaway

Sounds to me mate, like you are ex forces and it wont take Einstein to figure you are ex-Navy.

The only plausable explanation I can gain as to why you would be out of the Navy is that you were chopped, hence the reason you are not 'Low Hours' but still eligible for the ATP Scheme as you are arent 'experienced' i.e. over 600-700 Hours.

As soon as the words 'training risk' and your name are in the same sentence at anywhere including CTC they move onto the next guy/girl. They can, it sucks, thats the market. Did you pt on your application form that you had failed but said something in your presentation ?

Those in the forces will have you believe that there way is the best, the most professional, and the hardest. Hence most come out thinking the sun shines out of their arse, and they can do any job in Civil Aviation. Who know why they didn't go for you, and unfortunately you'll never know either. Thats just the way it is!!

There are great pilots either side of the Forces/Civil boundary and these days it isn't about flying the aircraft anymore. It's about fitting in and getting on with the guy next to you. CRM. Maybe in their experience forces pilots of a certain character type dont fit in but can fly the aircraft like a god. Unfortunately you cant do one and not the other in todays climate, i.e. employers can be as picky as they like.....maybe it will change in the future and we will all be laughing. Until that happens we just have to 'bow to the priest and take one in the ass.'

[Poontang Luva]

Glaws, I already have mate, havin some people over shortly for a nice spot of dinner! They're all English too!!!!!!!! Shock, horror! :}

And no im not 'upset' in the slightest. This thread has been a good laff but i think i'll bugger off now.

Torps! Cheers for the link! :ok: But where are the roo and sheep clips!

Take it easy boys (i think ur all boys) its been fun!! ;)

PS - hopefully i do end up on the same deck as u two. Would have a good old laugh i reckon during the cruise! :D

[Glaws]

Take it easy Poontang its been a laugh, all taken in good spirit.

17-20 Awesome!




:O

[scroggs]

While 2 hours is an inordinately short time in which to assess a candidate who broadly meets the requirements of an employer, it can take less than 5 minutes if it is immediately obvious that the candidate does not meet a particular criterion, or that the candidate is patently not suited to life in a cramped cockpit with the guys behind the desk. Let's face it: if I don't like you, you're not getting in my company!

As for foreign pilots flying "British' aircraft, your argument should be with the law of the land, not with the employers who exploit that law. Of course, you are certain that the aircraft you wish to fly are owned by an entirely British company with no foreign capital represented? No? Time you went and did some research, then, isn't it?

Scroggs

[IceHouse]

Re above comments on european pilots, I've applied to some european carriers recently and had little feedback, even had an austrian outfit wanting all the air law exams completed in German even though I've a JAR licence already, anyway I'm pretty certain that a English national would find it nearly impossible to secure a position with AF or IB for example. The recent post about KLMuk pilots and their treatment at the hands of KLM mainline is ridiculous, shouldnt be allowed and hopefully AF will rip apart this airline in good time, one question though..has the european/JAR licensing had any benefit to majority of UK pilots??

[wheelbarrow]

torpedoaway

I am glad you will never read my reply to your second SHAMEFUL outburst. Your postings are so risibly pathetic that you are beyond salvation in a decent airline environment. Stick to whingeing and bitching.

Sheep and Leaders? Well, if I am a sheep, I am happy to be associated with CTC:

Boeing 757 and 767,

Airbus A318,19,20 and 21 ratings in my licence.

Decent seniority and a Nice pension scheme currently to boot.

3 Years into my career...and only 30 years old.

If that makes me a sheep, well thank god I bleated nicely at the Manor all those years ago......

All other readers,

Don't be put off by the rantings of a couple of losers in the CTC game. Not everyone gets in, but if you do, your life is made very palatable.

Baaaa, Baaa, Baaaa ( A Sheep noise etc...):p

[The Greaser]

I came through the ATP scheme and naturally know many others as well. As far as I can make out, CTC do not give a jot where you are from, what sex you are, what background you have (modular/integrated) or how many hours you have as long as you meet the criteria. (I had 1500 piston hours when I came through the scheme)

[Arrestahook]

Glaws

If you failed the maths or tech tests it won't take two minutes to decide whether your getting through. Surprised they don't tell people on their way out the door at lunch time!

[Orion Man]

Wheelbarrow, a search of your previous posts reveals you are a rather confrontational individual who seems to get involved in spats on just about every thread you engage in.

I rather doubt your seniority is that decent given that you appear to have been working for a freight airline not so long ago.

CTC is undoubtedly here to stay as it a means of out-sourcing training for airlines. Torpedoaway, don't be too disappointed. I know an awful lot of good pilots who were rejected by CTC for some reason or another. They made it and have never looked back.

CTC is not the last chance saloon. In the same way that many good pilots are rejected by CTC, some idiots get accepted onto it. I have flown with some of them !

If I had my career again, lining the pockets of some senior captains at CTC would be my last choice of getting into the game.
Undoubtedly, the training there is good and some excellent cadets have come through. But don't be disheartened by the comments of a few who think that because they got through the system they are better than you. Good luck.

[wheelbarrow]

Orion Man,

Wheelbarrow is a name used by several individuals. Not just me.

I worked for DHL ON LOAN..... so not is all it seems.

My seniority is fine thanks. As I have worked for longet at my employer than you imagine.

As for confrontational, reread the other posts at the beginning of the thread..... as for lining the pockets of senior people at CTC.... did you have a little fall out with someone there when Orion were bought by Britannia? Sounds interesting and plausible to me!

Don't worry about me mate, I'm fine. Thanks to CTC!:D

[henryIV]

Orion Man your comments are interesting considering you have actually flown with some of these CTC characters, perhaps they are geeks after all?

I myself have no intention of applying to CTC since it’s obviously a money making scam and anyone with any kind of business training should be able to spot it from a few hundred miles and dismiss it at a glance.

I read earlier with interest that Torpedoaway and a few others stated that there were many Europeans getting through, well this is a part of money making I'm afraid. The few(I have put that in Italics because lets be honest easyJet and Monarch don't compromise of all the world's airlines!) airlines may not get the best recruits, but at least they get enough yes men/women to tow the line through the bad times. Which is what the scheme was set up for(?)

Wheelbarrow you seem very defensive, why is that? Something to hide? A spotters guide underneath the bed perhaps? Whatever it is please remove it from where the sun just doesn't shine.

Just referring back to the number of foreigners. We have several companies abroad, well that's just an underestimate since England (yes I mean England) has the Fourth largest economy in the world. Though these companies’ branches abroad don't have foreign investment, they are still required to have 60-99% nationals working in that branch depending on the country's laws. So in retort to an earlier statement by someone, a company in Britain should bl**dy well have all British workers.

Let's be honest, if Air France had several openings and they had a choice of 100 foreigners (all fluent in French) and 1 national what choice do you think they'd make? If you said one of the foreigners I suggest you look at the amount of European law suits (well into 4 figures) pending against France for not abiding by European law. Funny that isn't it since it's the French who wanted a European Union! This is of no disrespect to the French; they are looking out for their own, just as we should do.

Curious.

Now lets stop this thread people because it doesn’t seem to be doing anyone any good does it? I'm off to play golf now, so you chaps play nice ya hear!

Regards,

Henry

[Orion Man]

Wheelbarrow,

More the fool you if you are letting other people post opinions on your pprune handle.

From what I can make from your previous posts you probably work for Thomas Cook having had to take a career break as the pilots at the bottom of their seniority list had to leave post 9/11 due to cost cutting. I do not believe they have recruited since bar a dozen German cadets borrowed from Lufthansa. So I doubt your seniority is that great somehow. Correct me if I'm wrong. As regards Orion and Britannia, I have no enemies that I know of at CTC. In fact, I can't remember if CTC actually existed when Thomson took over Horizon.

HenryIV, the vast majority of the CTC cadets are very able that I have come across. There are of course a few arrogant types that think that because they got their job through CTC, they are born with a silver spoon up their a..e. CTC cadets are no better than any other low hours pilots I have flown with.

All i'm saying is it wouldn't be my choice for training as you are lining someone else's pockets.

Regards Orion Man.

[TRon]

So what about Astraeus/Bond, easyJet TRSS, Ryanair, emerald, BAC Express and almost every other operator that make you pay for a type rating?

Surely you are lining their pockets? Fine so CTC make a few pounds off our heads. I can live with that. Lets face it, guys are paying for a type rating and 200 hours on type for 40-50k.....Just on the off chance of a job or improving their chances.

It would be interesting to see what your choice of Training provider would be in todays climate? Very easy to say dont line anyones pockets when you are in a job.

As for Thomas Cook not recruiting, they took 2 CTC McAlpine guys last month.

[wheelbarrow]

Orionman,

More fool me if I let others post on my handle? This is not MY handle! Perhaps the other way round!

As for great seniority? I never said great did I? I said decent. TCUK recruitment is not my strongpoint. I believe however they MAY have recruited a few more than you imagine... and quite a few have left the company too.

As for the rest of the discussion, you seem to just want to put me down rather than offer a cogent argument. Remember I have first hand experience of CTC, you don't it appears and neither do the other contributors on here. Especially the bitter ones at the beginning of this post, who posted xenophobic, offensive comments.

[Arrestahook]

Henry IV, I put it to you that your an idiot & know very little about CTC other than what your own inadequacies would have you believe.

I myself have no intention of applying to CTC since it’s obviously a money making scam and anyone with any kind of business training should be able to spot it from a few hundred miles and dismiss it at a glance.

An 'obvious scam' no less. I hope Easyjet, TC, Brittania, Monarch et al are aware that they are being 'scammed', perhaps you ought to write and enlighten them as you have us.
As for their cadets, sorry 'geeks', getting a paid for jet type rating, 400 odd hours on type and being paid tax free in the process must be awful, warn them too.

CTC have created a clever niche in the market and make good money from it, but every one involved benefits, from the airlines to the cadets they recruit. It is the fact that everyone involved benefits that makes it so successful.

As for your comment, 'anyone with any kind of business training...'
of those few I know who have gone through they include: an entrepreneur who ran two very successful small businesses, a financial director, a sales director and several BSc (Hons) in business and management, including my own.

wheelbarrow: we stand together.

[Orion Man]

Wheelbarrow,

Great...decent etc, means much the same in my book. People leaving the company only improves your seniority if they are replaced beneath you. Thomas Cook have taken on a few people this year for the first time this year since 2001 I understand. Your lack of a reasonable reply suggests to me that I was fairly accurate about your position.

As regards your pprune handle, why don't you get your own or is this a way of hiding behind others ?

Tron, I fully sympathise with the predicament of those looking for a job. You're right, all airlines recoup training costs in some way or another including British Airways. It is a shame but this is the way the market has become. If I had to train again, I would rather give my money to an airline rather than a few fat cats feathering their nests with no definitive job guarantee at the end of it. Thats my opinion, wheelbarrow has his as he went through their system and seems to enjoy ramming it down the throats of others who have not applied or who have been unfortunate not to pass their selection criteria.

[wheelbarrow]

OrionMan

I am not going to open my position to you or anyone else.

The facts remain:

CTC helped me into a big jet at 26 years old.

I am secure enough and senior enough to be happy.

I am in a decent final salary pension.

I have got BOEING and AIRBUS on my licence.

I am still young.

And I did not pay CTC a penny for ANY of my training. See why I am so happy?!?

Why are you being such a stiff shirt, CTC hater?

Get a life.

Oh, and having read your posts..... on a variety of subjects, you seem to know it all too. An accusation you levelled at me...:D

[Batavorum]

Can somebody tell the kind of questions they ask you in the second phase?

[Orion Man]

Wheelbarrow,

Carry on being the arrogant twit you obviously are. Your above list is testament to that. Continue telling everyone how good you are if it makes you feel better.

I rather think you worked for peanuts for a period of time to pay CTC. True ?

I'm not a CTC hater - far from it. Wouldn't be my choice thats all for the reasons given previously.

[wheelbarrow]

Orionman,

Arrogant? Reread the original posts by others that I got involved for.

As for arrogant? Well, maybe, but I am not talking about how good I am. I am talking about how good CTC are.

That is the point of the thread.

[scroggs]

To all of you active on this thread: stop the personal insults and attacks. Discuss your subject without resort to such childish behaviour - or I will have to take your toys away.

Scroggs :*

[Orion Man]

Apologies Scroggs for my part.

Good luck to those who use CTC and those who elect not to. CTC will make mistakes not taking on good guys and hiring twits. But that can be said of all airlines. You will find that out for yourselves without having to read threads like these !

Regards Orion Man

[snowkiwi]

on the issue of ctc being a deal or a rip off...

if someone is going to pay for all my training and give me a job in an industry where qualified pilots are struggling to get work...hell yes i'll take it thank you very much.
so good on ya all those that have got thru it, and those that haven't get over it and continue with your dream...and if it's not, maybe you should be on another forum.
my glass is half full.

[Orion Man]

Snowkiwi,

When an airline takes you on directly, you are normally paid your salary while training. With the CTC deal, you put up a sum of money which is repaid to you over several months "in lieu" of a salary. Hence you are working for free and there is no guarantee of a job offer at the end of this period. Can I put it to you that the "someone" who is paying for your training is you.

As I said before, most airlines try to recoup training costs in some way or another. You may have to pay for your type rating up front or have it deducted from your salary over a period of time (as at British Airways). My main criticism of CTC is that you are not guaranteed an employment contract at the end of the six months and the salary you would have earned during the period effectively goes to some fat cats doing some moonlighting.

[flyonwall]

Orion Man,

You seem to be very against the CTC scheme! You talk an awful lot about arrogance in your past posts. Unfortunately, you sound equally, if not more arrogant than the people you are sl***ing off.

So, if you were given a choice to be taken onto a reputable scheme such as CTC's sponsorship, to stand a high, if not definite chance of getting a job at the end of training, and given a huge loan just like that, you would complain and refuse?

Granted, it may not be a 100% complete sponsorship scheme, but if it greatly increases your chances of getting a job, and being put through excellent flight training, then I think the majority of appreciative people would take it. Unfortunately, you are the minority.

[Orion Man]

Congratulations flyonwall on your first post. You sound vaguely familiar. Glad to see you have got your own personal handle.

Thats the beauty of democracy. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I think you'll find i'm not the minority. Read the other threads regarding the merits/demerits of CTC. If arrogance is disagreeing with one particular individual on here then they should re-write the dictionary. I have said that CTC would be my last choice of getting into an airline for the reasons previously given. Thats my opinion which I am entitled to.

Regards Orion Man

[wheelbarrow]

Orionman

No. I am still using this handle and that post before was not by me.

Why don't you just pack your bag, and stay out of things?

These guys are wannabees. They don't have a fat package like you, so just butt out and leave them alone.

CTC is just fine. Loads agree, you don't. Obviously.

The fact that Clarke, Billett, Pennington et al turned you down for a training job is clear for us to see.

Or perhaps they chopped you on a command course?

Go away!

[Orion Man]

Whatever Wheelbarrow or is it Tailscrape ? You seem to attract controversy wherever you go.

If you can't handle those who disagree with you, then stay away yourself. A whole load of MyTravel employees would probably like to see the back of you and your arrogant & hate-filled posts. I've just put you on my "ignore" list so don't waste your time.

[flyonwall]

Orion man,

Arrogant and hated little posts?? To direct such a comment toward wheelbarrow, i think you should take a good look at your past posts, as nearly all of them are arrogant and hateful.

I think it is obvious that you are boring people with your comments about CTC. I agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it seems you are the only one with it. Boring.

[Orion Man]

Flyonwall,

Good luck if you chose CTC. You and wheelbarrow appear to be the same person to me judged by your grammar mistakes and the fact you have just appeared.

[flyonwall]

Thanks for th luck Orion Man. I did, and I have an excellent airline career in front of me thanks to CTC. You seem to believe you have a great knowledge of the CTC scheme, but I can assure you, from reading your past posts, you dont.

You are posting notes on a forum, where the majority of the people (obviously excluding you) would give the world to get onto a scheme such as CTC\'s, not to mention the people actually on the course who you have insulted in your past posts. Yes you are entitled to your opinion, but think about who may be reading it.

[flyonwall]

Like most things Orion Man, you are incorrect once again. Myself and Wheelbarrow are not the same person, and the point in creating 2 names would be??

This is a chat forum Orion Man, I was under no impression that it was an English lesson. So please, give up the grammar lecture.