Virgin Taxis to Darwin GA

[steelcraft]

A Vigin flight took a wrong turn at Darwin this morning and tried to taxi to the GA area. Crew heard to say " Woops I think I took the taxi way"

[Watchdog]

oops ... oh well, if the tarmac survived whoopee do!
:O

[Prop's ????]

Well how about that, the biggest news to date.

I sure hope this thread doesn’t end up going on for days.

Better call the ATSB, may need a big investigation.

:8 :8 :8

[DutchRoll]

While I'm not the biggest DJ fan around, this is getting a bit ridiculous. If you want to hang sh#@ on DJ, at least come up with something of substance (and likewise for QF).

[compressor stall]

IF you are a pilot then you will know that taxying around an unfamiliar airport is actually one of the more difficult things to do.

What a ridiculous beat up this is.

I remember jumpseating on a CRJ with a German carrier into Fumicino several years ago. After the capt and FO had both studied the jepps and head scratching, they passed the jepps to me to see if I could find the parking bay we had been assigned.

I couldn't, and in the end Ground gave us directions. Hardly a safety issue.

ANd why do we need to hang sh!t on any company here? No wonder we are a nation of knockers and our industry is in the way its in. :yuk:

[lame]

Big deal, this used to happen every day at JFK NY when we were there. :rolleyes:

I remember years ago doing exactly the same thing in a B727 at Townsville, NO worries, just stuck it in reverse........ ;) :ok:

[FPV]

Who cares! As others have mentioned, this forum is quickly becoming a slagging ground for political grievances. It astounds me how many fellow aviators will jump on the bandwagon, and slag the opposition, or anyone for that fact. All pilots are human, humans make errors. That’s why we train. Wrong turn’s taxing at an unfamiliar airports are common, even by the most accomplished pilots. I’ve done it. Have you ? :zzz:

[Australia2]

Steelcraft,

While not a DJ defender you must be very bored, and also one who never makes a mistake - be careful when you set a precident that is hard to maintain.

[High Altitude]

Bugga, I told them to deliver it out the front of the hangar, Godfrey must have had a last minute change of mind... We were all looking forward to that 73...;)

[Beer Can Dreaming]

While anyone can make a mistake and taxying at night is never easy,the fact remains that certain individuals love to point out others shortcomings.

If there were pavement cracking or a runway incursion occurred then this may merit reporting.
But a simple wrong taxiway taken at night at what is a very dark and somewhat deceptive airport with little or no background lighting or difficult signage sounds petty.

[Home Brew]

There are those "that have", and those that "will have".

Let's not forget that at this particular "International Gateway", there are no illuminated taxiway signs to help any of us blokes trying to find our way around in the dark.

Interesting that the original post occurred within minutes of the alleged incident.

[Buster Hyman]

I have to disagree. This is a serious breach of aviation safety & CASA should be grounding them, pending a full enquiry. Perhaps a Royal Commission would get to the bottom of this.

In fact, we should shut QF down as well, for calling the integrity & respect of the common kangaroo into doubt. The Kangaroo, or Rat as it is now referred to, doesn't deserve this negative press. Ground them too I say!

Better yet, ground them all! God never intended man to fly in the first place, otherwise we'd have been born with FF points!!!

:}

[TopperHarley]

Some would suggest that the GA apron is exactly where they belong !!!

[Prop's ????]

Buster Hyman

Great stuff, best reply to date.

:ok:

[Break Right]

Topper, that was a good one m8. Tell us what your really thinking. Tosser!!!!:ok:

[amos2]

Hmmmm?...getting lost at a complicated airport is one thing...

but Darwin...

sorry! that doesn't compute! :{

I think some one is making this up! :E

[Soulman]

Spose you've all heard the story of the American heavy captain flying into Frankfurt Main one busy weekend?

Stories goes that a busy and very angry German controller got upset when the crew of the said aircraft requested progressive taxi instructions. Controller then asked if he'd ever flown into a large airport in his life to which said captain replied 'I was here in the late 40's but we didn't stop!'

Strange to think that the same could have happened to Darwin had things not gone our way.

Soulman.

[ITCZ]

Hmm, i've held off, but i just cant help myself....:}

Yes amos2, its true. I saw the 'fun' as it took place -- was stepping off a Braz to see half the airport staff gazing back at the runway -- normally the Airnorth and QF traffic officers don't take much interest in affairs on the ramp once their plane has been pushed back and taxiis off -- someone elses problem now!

But whats this.....

A VB 737 stuck on Zulu, not just a little bit up, but ALL THE WAY UP :uhoh: with a beautifully curved winglet threatening the nice new fire station! Classic!

Apparently had been cleared to backtrack RWY 11.

Now, it must surely be a comfort to those 2 VB tech crew that half of Pprune has leapt to their defence, and yes, I have pulled some clangers of my own, but...

It was a beautiful dry season evening....:ok:

a waning moon only a day or two since a full disc was providing its glow through a clear sky, visibility unlimited.......:ok:

light breeze......:ok:

only one or two other aircraft within 20 miles, one other taxiing.... :ok:

You don't get any better conditions, and you could not get a less complicated taxi instruction...!!!

And yet, two "professional" aircrew drawing over $200k per annum between them, confuse a single row of green taxiway lights on an 8m width taxiway as being the 11,000 feet by 200 feet wide Cat 1 runway with HIRL and orange hold short lights under their noses only 10m ahead !!!

Lighten up you VB wannabe's, that was an absolute no brainer!!

Okay, maybe I am an @rsehole, but lads, I saw it, and this tired and cranky little black duck just laughed and laughed and laughed! :)

[Capt Claret]

Whilst on the surface this may appear to be a no brainer we should all be cognisant of that old addage, "there but for the grace of the deity, go I"

And whilst we're slinging off at DJ for this cluster fkuc, lets not forget the QF 73, in '95 that landed and stopped short of the displaced threshold of RWY11, during WIP.

Maybe this was a cluster fcuk, but then again maybe there were some mittigating factors ....... :\

Bonus Question

Name the airline that has not had a cluster fkuc.

[Buster Hyman]

Spirit Airlines?

[BankAngle50]

I think we all agree that taxiing in an unfamiliar environ can be a tad confusing. I remember a few confusing moments taxing at MIA (Miami international) and in Asia at unfamiliar airports.

Anybody slagging these guys for this should make sure that they never make a mistake themselves; and if you cannot guarantee that, then you may wish to hold back your unconstructive criticism. Remember your CRM training boys—we cannot all be mondays experts and put yourself in the seat after a full analysis!

Also what are the facts. Crew fatigue???? What may seem a simply instruction when we look back, sitting all comfortable in our houses, may get misinterpreted after flying all day. I remember many “Commanders Discretion” days when I have felt Fu*ked! What was read back to the ATC? There are heaps of things they we may not be privy to. I will say that taxing can lead to disastrous outcomes, so I’m in no way endorsing this as a minor issue. Just ask SQ about their shinny B744!

Aussie pilots (especially the know it alls who have never flown anywhere but Oz) can be such knockers! I guess you cannot help the odd poke from the QF boys, but I suspect most people sticking it at the crew are GA aero club know it alls!

Ps Im an Aussie!

[Highbypasss]

Hey blokes. Lighten up!!! Buster and HA have the right idea. Sheesh....nothing wrong with a light-hearted thread here and then......................H:cool:

[Jet_Black_Monaro]

Well at least they didn't continue onto a golf course :D

[cunninglinguist]

Whilst I agree this is not exactly front page news, I guess it may not have been so funny if it was a runway incursion :confused:

As has been pointed out already this is not an ab-initio after his/her first solo, this is a professional crew in a big shiny one.
Is anybody suggesting that neither of them have been to DN before ?
Has this anything to do with the CASA BN office not requiring VB to have route endortsements ?

[The Enema Bandit]

So what happened to the crew? How did they get the plane back? What was the reaction of the passengers? Did it make the NT News?

[No Further Requirements]

G'day all. Although yes, the VB crew is meant to be professional etc etc I have seen quite a few people in Darwin miss taxiways or go the wrong way who are based there! It happen sometimes.

On the flip side, if the RAAF and DIA want to play the 'let's run an international airport' game, then for crying out loud act like it! Get bloody MAG signs! This debate has been going on for ages, and yet incidents like this keep happening. What is done? - squat!

Hope all is wel up there. Cheers,

NFR.

PS. It would have only made the NT news if the aircraft had swerved off the taxiway to avoid a brother with a croc during a cyclone! :cool:

[Capn Bloggs]

Lame,
Could you really back a 727? I've heard (and seen..bloody disgusting, it was) a Herc do a reverse park, but a 727??

[lame]

It wasn't actually a reverse park, just like this one in Darwin, they headed in towards the GA apron, instead of going up to the Airline bays. :rolleyes:

There was nowhere to turnround, and no tow bar in TSV for the 727, so they reversed it about 100 feet. ;)

It is not normally encouraged due to FOD.

In the USA they routinely reverse MD 80s out of terminal bays, well they did at DFW when I saw them back in the early 1990s. :ok:

[Buster Hyman]

I'll back you up there lame. Saw CO doing it at IAH around the same time. MD80's & 727's, quite a racket but fascinating to watch.

[DJ737]

Back in the '80's after the KAL007 shootdown, BA ground staff refused pushback a Aeroflot IL-62 of T2 at LHR, so they did it themselves with no warning, the LHR authorities weren't happy with the result to say the least.

DJ737

The Roo Rooter :E :ok:

[Herc Jerk]

BLOGGS, Please explain why backing a Herc is "disgusting" ?

SMP521-4 and/or AFM references or antedotes from your personal Herc experience are preferred...

HJ

(Have seen plenty of 72s backed... never flown one so don't know what Snr Boeing said about it in the FCTM...)

[lame]

Saw a DC8 reverse out from the terminal in BNE one morning. :eek:

During the "you know what" in 1989.

The American Captain (Arrow Air from memory) came in too close to the finger, and ended up with his wing (the wing of the DC8)almost touching a light pole.

When I asked him how we were going to get it out again without a tow bar even, he just laughed and said "we do this all the time in the States, we will just back out".

And he did, caused quite a mess on the tarmac, but he did it. :ok:

[Buster Hyman]

Just thinking about DC8's gives me an earache!

What happened in 89 lame?.... (Buster ducks & runs...) :E

[TheNightOwl]

Now you've done it Buster, an open invitation for all the '89ers to destroy the thread - not to mention Lame attacking AN for the demise of both Compass attempts!! :{

Kind regards,

TheNightOwl. :ok:

[Buster Hyman]

:E Tee-hee-hee!:E

[3 Holer]

No problems reversing a 727, but you better make sure you don't hit anything !

An Ansett Captain reversed a 727 out of the aero-dock in Sydney one afternoon. They were delayed, awaiting some late pax baggage and the tug driver decided it was afternoon tea time. Not to be intimidated by a card carrying TWU heavy, the Captain advised the AN ground engineers he would be reversing out under ship's power.

It was successful and the aircraft departed some 20 minutes late. However, by the time VH-RMZ arrived in MEL, the TWU had blackbanned it from all TWU activities for 24 hours. The aircraft was unloaded by AN traffic staff and couldn't be re-fuelled or towed for the next 24 hours.

Our Company B727 AFM does not have a procedure, but I recall Pratt & Whitney having an EPR limit for static reverse thrust. Don't ask me the figure - maybe a 727 lame is around who can jog the memory bank?

[Karunch]

Probably a good thing they don't operate below Cat 1 minima!

Keep the Vb amateur hour operations away from the airports I operate at please. While this event had a humourous outcome, runway incursions elsewhere have not.

'Virgin xxx, clear to taxi via the Stuart Highway & Knuckey st to runway 11'

[High Altitude]

Fark me... This post is getting worse than the bitchen in GA if that is at all possible.

Yes it is serious, yes I am sure that measures will be put in place to investigate how it happened, yes I am sure that a very young company learnt from the experience.

Or then again pull the AOC, ground em they are totally unsafe...

Wake up and smell the roses... If VB hadn't of come to AUS QF would still be flying around 733's and we would still be paying ridiculous airfares... Pilots would not have been given a chace to fly for an airline and would still wait 10 years to become an FO.

If they are as unsafe as alleged don't ya just think CASA may have a thing or two to say?

Don't b*tch about cr*p...

BTW I have now cleared out the parking area out the front. So if you would like to deliver the 73 tonight it would make for a good start to a Thursday... Just watch out for the light towers on those beautiful winglets... Please activate the emergency slides as I can't find the stairs... or will the extention ladder be sufficient?

[lame]

TNO,

Glad to see you concede it was Ansett, and that Abe**s in particular, that caused the demise of those two great Airlines. :{

[Capn Bloggs]

Herc Jerk,
I profess to know nothing about hercs except that they are big, fat and ugly! :D . I rode in them 20 times: 20 times too many! I shot a couple down (pretend), and saw one do a reverse park once: :yuk: More crap and corruption (read smoke and noise) than a steam engine at full tilt!

I'll always remember the TopGun scene where the boss says "you'll be harlln darg sh$t outta Harng Karng!". He was talking about flying Herc's was'nt he?:ok:

[Fox3snapshot]

It is possible Italian operators and ATC may have previously had the same attitude towards incorrect taxiing and airfield excursions up until the recent accident that has landed airport authorities and ATC in jail....and now another recent serious incident with an aircraft on the roll aborting at 100Kts when an aircarft had lined up at the opposite end, who's fault...who knows at this stage, but operators and ATC need to take note.

I guess the point is, sure it was a wrong turn but lets face it Darwin airport isn't a labrynth and if it was in a thundery with heavy rain poor viz etc. with other airfield ops going on you could end up in strife.

Not worth hanging someone over or slagging off, but certainly not to be fobbed off as "Sh*T happens"

:hmm:

[TheNightOwl]

Fair go, Lame, you'll grasp any straw in your desperation!
I do not, nor will ever, concede that AN/Abeles had a hand in the demise of Compass1 or 2, I just find the concept impossible to believe. In fact, I'm convinced that the idea is nothing more than the demented dreamings of a bunch of hopefuls who had nothing else but hope to sustain them in their admirable, but useless, attempts to start up a rival to AN. Both attempts were doomed from the start for reasons OTHER than foul play from AN or anyone else, mate, but please hang on to your delusions if you find them comforting.

Kind regards,

TheNightOwl.:ok:

[Pedota]

For what it's worth, on Monday April 26 I was on an Air New Zealand A320 (ANZ 124) that backed out from the Melbourne terminal under its own power. They had an observer walking alongside the aircraft. The only other time I have been on an aircraft where this was done was in the USA – Washington Dulles on a DC-9 in the 90’s.

[lame]

TNO,

You believe what you like, I was there and I KNOW what happened. :(

That as****e Abeles even caused us trouble when we were training in the USA. :(

Luckily, McDonnell Douglas had no time for such blackmail, and helped us anyway while "appearing" to give in to his illegal demands. ;)

I could tell you many things that I know of personally but I won't, because you won't believe me anyway.

Even after we ceased operations, I went in a couple of times to help the Liquidators with Aircraft related matters, and they said this is ridiculous, it is them ( pointing to Ansett) that should be going.

Finally it did catch up with Ansett years later, but sadly not before the demise of two truly great Airlines.

[Groaner]

I'm sure reversing out is still common practice in the US. 4 times in the last 12 mths have been on an AA MD-80 that reversed away from the terminal (3 different airports)

[Herc Jerk]

Steady work, no DGs, and a HKG basing to boot :hmm:

That's Herc Heaven :cool:

[amos2]

I'm staggered that some of you professing to be professional pilots seem to have some doubts about backing up an airplane!

Jeez!!...even a piston with reverse pitch can be backed up, let alone a jet with reverse thrust!

Where do you lot come from? :confused:

[lame]

I am no Pilot, however even I know it is not the same thing. :rolleyes:

The main reason it is not done routinely nowadays is because of the risk of FOD. ;)

Not as much a problem with piston engines. :D

[BankAngle50]

I have flown ID many times last year on AA. I was on one of their wonderful little Super 80s only 2 months ago, when Reverse was used to move the girl back. Guess the Donkeys are a little higher on the -80s than most others, especially the NG. I guess when you see something new its interesting, but for anybody that’s worked O/S its nothing new and common place. Better to try and keep OTP with an acceptable risk of FOD.

Screw FOD, I reckon we should use it more in Oz. Maybe we could then extricate from the operation, some of those over paid unionised ‘ground monkeys’ that hold the company to ransom and delay the sched.

Monkey Required!
$100K per year, no education required, an Australian couldn’t give a **** attitude, and willing to delay operations until overtime kicks in.
:8

[Buster Hyman]

$100K per year, no education required, an Australian couldn’t give a **** attitude, and willing to delay operations until overtime kicks in.

Here we have a classic example of what is commonly referred to as a Generalisation. Note the exagerration; $100K, the denigration; no education, classic jingoism; Australian couldn’t give a **** attitude, and finally, the accusation; willing to delay operations. Is it envy, a misunderstanding perhaps, a past encounter or just a stereotypical beat up because a few of these people have done something similar in the past? Who knows. Just remember that generalisations are for naughty people.:rolleyes:

[DirectAnywhere]

All generalisations are wrong...even this one!:D