Warning About Gulf Air

[onthego]

For those already at or thinking about joining Gulf Air Beware.
The company is refusing to give a letter of No Objection to pilots that are leaving Gulf Air to Another company. It does not seem to matter if it is another company within the GCC or elsewere.
What that means for anyone looking to move to another company in the middle east is that you will not be able to work within the UAE for a minimun of 6 months from the time you quit Gulf Air.
Rather than trying to make Gulf Air a better place to work they are determind to make life miserable for those who even plan to leave.

[mogley]

I haven't heard of anyone getting refused a no objection letter recently & God knows we've had a lot a people resign from GF recently.The only thing they are really tough on is the 3 month notice period.
Maybe you're talking about GT, because I heard the GT cabin crew will not get a no objection letter for 6 months,but that has to do with the Abu Dhabi gov.

[onthego]

I am referring to Gulf Air Pilots based in AUH. Then Ban does not apply to you if the company gives you a no objection letter. They are even refusing to give it to guys who are NOT going to Emirates.

[REM]

More ill-informed rubbish about Gulf Air.
I personally know some GF pilots that have left for both EK and other carriers, and GF have in NO WAY obstructed them, unless you consider insisting that the pilots give the obligatory 3 month notice an obstruction (a fact EK are well aware of).
Whilst I do not know what has happened at GT, but since the pilot group is one and the same, all administered out of BAH, I find OTG's assertion pretty hard to believe.
It may be an administrative hiccup, but one phone call to BAH would sort that out.

[onthego]

REM
I personally know of pilots working for Gulf Air based in AUH who have NOT been given a letter of no objection.
Yes pilots based in BAH and AUH work for the same company but there are definatly some differences as I am sure you are aware.

A call to BAH.....If a Gulf Air pilot basd in AUH has a problem and
has to deal with BAH. 90% of the time the only way to get the issue resolved is to fly to BAH on a day off and wait around the pink palace for someone to show up.

Fact of the matter is that Gulf Air is short of crews, Gulf Air can not keep or find pilots to work for them. I see the prevention of someone wanting to go to another comany in the area scare tactics.
" The beating will continue until morale improves "

[CDRW]

REM - sorry but you are the ill informed - the new HR managers are refusing to give NOC's to the GT lads who are trying to get to EK. Part of the new super efficient management!!

[T O G A Boy]

It seeems that the spotlight is focused heavily on Gulf Air nowadays. Yes there are a shortage of pilots there. But that is mainly due to impatient pilots who expect paradise when they arrive. I personally know of pilots who were unemployed and not current back in their home countries, came to Gulf Air, got current and used it as a gateway to join other airlines in the region.Thanks to Gulf Air that today they are in another airline. But every company has it's ups and down and Gulf Air is certainly no exception.
What about the near fatal incident of EK in Joborg neraly 3 weeks ago. Did we hear any comments or reports about it. NO:{
So pls no bias remarks about Gulf Air. If we need to comment about any airlines lets do it fairly and with proof cause at the end of the day we are professional people not a bunch of yobbos.
P.s. If anybody has any news about the EK news in Joborg wud appreciate if u cud post it as I'm curious to find out what happened.:confused:
Toga Boy

[Saltaire]

Troll Alert.

Interested to exploit the misfortune of others.........give it a rest and realize every company has it's slip-up's...........look in your own backyard.

Have a nice day.

[onthego]

TOGA BOY

"mainly due to impatient pilots who expect paradise when they arrive"

Would help alot if those hired were given the truth during the interview process. Such as upgrades, housing, schooling etc etc

[REM]

CDRW,
If you read my post, I stated that GF has not obstructed anyone that I know of leaving GF in BAH. I stand by that.
I also stated that I did not know what had happened at GT.
I merely extrapolated that I could see no reason why there would be differant rules in AUH.
Maybe the title of the post should read Gulf Traveller because no-one has cited any evidence of it happening to GF pilots in BAH where about 90% of the pilots are based.
Likewise OTG you start the topic with a broad swipe at all of GF, but your only evidence is from GT in AUH. Why did you not be more specific? Maybe less dramatic??

[onthego]

REM,

BAH based AUH based they still work for Gulf Air

[T O G A Boy]

onthego

For a fact every issue is covered in the interview and all applicants are told of what they are entitled to when they join.
For your information, Gulf Air is a very well established airline ( 54 years) in business. As i said earlier every company has it's mishaps. look at other airlines that were stable and running and today they are history .
Regarding upgrades, in the interview all applicants are told that getting a command is by a seniority system. dont expect to come and join and within 3-4 years to get your command cause there are a lot of first officers who have been waiting much longer than that, even though they have been trained by Gulf Air as ab initios
Regarding housing, it has been made fairly clear what they are entitled to, and although we could be short of pilots, we dont decieve people to join the company.
And regarding the GT (incident), well this is the first time i hear of such story, so i suggest u get your facts right cause Gulf Air is not a dungeon that traps pilots or restricts them when they depart. I know many pilots who came here, got current, got the hours & experience and within a short time left for EK and Air Arabia and other airlines.
Toga Boy

[ruserious]

The question you have to ask TOGA Boy, is why did they leave at the first opportunity to go to Emirates, Air Arabia and other airlines (who have not been established for 54 years) ???
By the way, are you aware TOGA BOY is an anagram of GOAT YOB? :O

[onthego]

TOGA BOY,

Fact, I do work for GF based in AUH.

Fact, when I arrived the contract I was sent and accepted and sent back signed. It was however not what I was told I must sign upon arrival in BAH.

Fact, GULF AIR will not sign a letter of NOC to pilots leaving Gulf Air from the AUH base.

I assume you do work for GF and that you are not based in AUH. YOU should check the facts sir regarding the letter of NOC.

[REM]

ruserious; stick to the topic!
OTG; My haven't we changed our stance! Your first post was a broadside at all of Gulf Air. 24 hours later it is confined to the 10% of Gulf Air's pilots who are based in AUH. Care to put a number on those who have had their NOC refused?
I know of seven who have left GF with NO PROBLEM and another three who are serving out their notice.

[hector]

Why are pilots leaving Gulf Air?
It's just that there are contracts with them in the offing (probably as a result of these departures) and I'd like to know more before commiting myself further.

[BlueEagle]

For gossip etc. about the EK Jo'burg incident see here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126248) .

[onthego]

REM,
No change in stance. Pilots based in AUH or BAH both work for Gulf Air. Gulf Air is refusing to give a letter of NOC. It seems quite simple.
The purpose of this post was to inform people that are here or thinking of comming over here that should they want to leave that Gulf Air will not give them a letter of NOC if they leave.
I know 3 pilots right now who did not get a letter of NOC.
Why don't you pick up the phone and phone someone and ask them about it? ohh that's right trying to get a straight answer in that building could take a while.
If you are someone in a position to do something to change this or prove me wrong I welcome it and would thank you on behalf of those who would like to have the letter.

[Left Coaster]

Actually did see one but it has been "fixed" and withdrawn. Apparently issued by mistake. Happy?

[T O G A Boy]

ruserious


The reason they were leaving at the first opportunity was due to the fact that i mentioned that Gulf Air was a gateway to them. no other airline would give them a chance to join except Gulf Air, and when they do get in get the relevant hours and experience and leave, all they do is mock and abuse Gulf Air. Maybe every body has a different way of thanking the airline that gave them an opportunity, i suppose.


onthego
The reason i'm saying this is cause for a fact i know 2 F.O.s that came to Gulf Air about 1 year ago maximum and today one is in Air arabia and the second is soon joining emirates. So pls dont mock Gulf air as a whole. If your case is with GT then it's a different story. this doesnt apply to Gulf Air, even though it's one management.

[nollocks]

I believe onthego is referring to the work permit issued to expatriate pilots, working for Gulf Air in the UAE, not Bahrain; this does not affect GCC pilots. There isn't a problem moving from Gulf Air, Bahrain to another operator in the UAE, but from Gulf Air, Abu Dhabi, you will have difficulties.

If you decide to move on and your work permit is cancelled, Gulf Air has the option to give you a stamp in your passport that prevents you from taking up employment in the UAE for a minimum of 6 months. This, I believe, is an optional practice that Gulf Air can enforce. I could be wrong but I do not believe the Abu Dhabi authorities will enforce this unless requested by the employer. I believe this applies to all sectors of the work force in the UAE.

[nollocks]

Additional information : I understand that Airline Pilots are exempt from this 6 month ban, the law apparently changes quite frequently, but if you signed a work permit with Commercial Pilot on it, you are probably not exempt, I could be wrong but I think the UAE labour law makes a distinct difference between the two!

[666]

and of course our GT UAE contracts just happen to have had commercial pilot on them. funny that.

666

[navmode]

toga boy get a life.if your an f/o with a family with gulf air your just above the bread line.oh how many expats did GA upgrade in the last 6 years ..........................?

[Verified]

I think GF is playing the scare game, but ask yourself this, does GF want to keep a pilot who does not want to fly for them? Dudai has plans for 15 million tourists by 2010...... good luck to GF management.

[airwaya457]

On a lighter note and slightly off topic.

Every time you turn up for work these days and park your car the First Officer seems to be getting out of his/her X5. Is this a company requirement? The car park has a whole line of them. All the Captains seem to have old bangers. I suppose it must be something to do with the X-wives!

[Bushflier]

It's true that GF will not give the required NOC to Gulf Traveller pilots. Why? Certainly because they are loosing too many guys these days

[T O G A Boy]

airwaya

Do we sense some jealousy here. if people have nice cars or bangers, it's got nothing to do with the company. each one has a different commitment. there are more important issues to discuss on this forum. get a life man;;;;;)

[airwaya457]

T O G A Boy,

Ah, sorry, my mistake, I thought the company were supplying these cars as part of a new FO employment incentive!
(I think you missed the point T O G A Boy: it’s called ‘humour’ ).
:hmm:

[666]

Toga Boy,

me thinks it is you who needs to get a life. Instead of single handedly protecting the image of GF. How can you sit there and say in your previous posts that because it is GT its not the same as GF. What bull. My contract says GF not GT, I was initially in Bahrain then moved whether I liked it or not. That moved cost me a serious amount of money to move the family, who were established in Bahrain. We were hired just weeks before the announcement of GT and not once was it mentioned in the interview. If so I may have made a different decision, as I did have other options open to me then. Numerous new pilots have complained about the whole truth not being forthcoming in the interviews. These guys asking questions about GF/GT on this forum need some answers to make an educated decision. When other people offer them you shoot them down. Their is always more than one side to a story.

It is definitely true that when we leave our passports a stamped and we cannot work in the UAE for 6 mths. This naturally affects you if you want to work for another company in the UAE. So if you are coming hoping to get in EK or Etihad by being here, beware. This is a major issue since we got moved here as I said whether we liked it or not and now we can only leave if we dont want to work for another company in the UAE. Thats a little unfair since this does not apply to Bahrain based pilots.Schooling is also a major issue, getting them into school and the expense. Especially on a FO's salary. With the pay rises we are alot closer to Emirates than we were. As for commands, there is no set career progression laid out for the 767. The airbus fleets are clearly defined. There are guys in the right seat on the 767 that have been there over 7 yrs. At present we are short so we are working hard. If you join on the 767 it is still uncertain were you will be based. If the rumours are true it could be Abu Dhabi, Bahrain or muscat. This uncertainty is very hard on families. If you end up in Bahrain the allowances are less.

There are good and bad points about GF/GT, as with any company.

Anyway that is my opinion.

666

[airwaya457]

It’s a shame that GF are going down this path, after all there are quite a number of us who would rather not change jobs again! Why not concentrate on improving things, (Eg: many policies are archaic and need revising, roster, etc), then maybe nobody would want to leave, gee, what an original concept!

I joined approximately 2 years ago and was one of the selected, who was forced to move to Abu Dhabi, I must add at great expense to myself. I gave up one-month salary last year for the move, not to mention the stress on my wife and children, so I think I and many in Abu Dhabi have contributed a whole lot more to JH recovery plan than many in Bahrain, many of who I believe were gloating at our “misfortune”! As it turns out, I much prefer living in the UAE and would certainly have to think long and hard before moving back. Once again it seems that the Abu Dhabi expatriate boys have received the short end of the stick!

As 666 pointed out, if you join the Abu Dhabi base, worse case, be prepared to be get moved. If you move here with your family, you might want to be cautious, unless your children like moving schools.

[crazy_max]

Sounds great, I got an invite for an interview in BAH for GF on June 6....
It seems that a good way not to worry about letters of no objection and people leaving is to pay them better and treat them better.
If that where the case we would not be having this discussion here..

Cheers.

[onthego]

It is now official, Gulf Air policy is not to issue any letters of No Objection to AUH pilots who wish to leave Gulf Air.
Thanks Gulf Air

[tic]

Brilliant, it even rhymes, and so true. Don't think GF F/O's any different from any other airline. F/O's always seem to have more up-market cars, than Capt's. Maybe because most are not married, or divorced. Need I say more?

GF/GT is not wonderful, but not that bad either. Leave for one is longer, flying allowances are pretty good, if not the best in the region. Hell, you can even sell your leave at a good rate. If you work hard, you can do well financially, so don't know what all the complaining is about. Are we our own worst enemies or not?

[nollocks]

Tic,

I agree, there are a few pluses over other carriers in the region, but obviously that is only because we are based in Abu Dhabi, if they move you back to Bahrain you will take a large pay cut. The 767 fleet has major inadequacies when you start talking destinations. At the moment we do not have one nice destination, all horrendous places! We should receive a bad destination allowance! Joke.


I believe 4 colleagues (that I know of) have been hit with this 6 month ban when resigning, amazing… the GF contract says 3 months notice when resigning, so you do the right thing and work your notice, then GF turn around and stamp your passport with a 6 month ban in the UAE. How professional is that? 54 years in business and this is the road they take, quite embarrassing if you ask me. It certainly does not breed team spirit or loyalty. It’s a shame that a few in the HR department are allowed to degrade the GF name in such a manner.

[onthego]

HR depatment what is that?

So a few months back we in AUH are informed that because we are based in outstations that we are entitled to 75% of the actual cost of schools for our kids. Finally we said good on Gulf Air.
Apparently the policy depatment and HR changed its mind and we are no longer entitled to it.
And they wonder why pilots are not happy and want to leave. The only way they can stop you from leaving in AUH is by not issuing a letter of NOC.
Really makes me proud to work for such a company.

[vfenext]

I thought the NOC letter only prevents you working in the UAE for 6 months. If you really want to leave there are plenty of jobs elsewhere.

[mogley]

I was chatting with some Bah bases cabin crew & it appears that now if they resign in Bah they will also have a 6 month ban on working here.Nice one JH, LM & MK.Way to boost the already bankrupt moral of the c/crew.
:yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[airwaya457]

Vfenext,

That sounds promising, do you know of any that are tax free?

[onthego]

vfenext,
That sounds like the reply you get from Gulf Air when you request a NOC. Either you wrote that policy or you should be working there.

[airwaya457]

Vfenext,

I think you are missing the point! Why should any company dictate where and when you can seek alternative employment: it’s the principal that infuriates most people.

[boiler]

Good point. Has anyone consulted with a lawyer to see if what they are doing is legal in the first place?

[nollocks]

From the Gulf News, Friday, July 2, 2004, questions answered by some local layers and legal consultants.

Quote:

'The Ban commences from the date the labour card is cancelled. A ban may be imposed by the company even on completion of one year of service. To eliminate a ban, you must seek a no-objection certificate from your existing employer.'

Therefore ultimately it is up to the employer if this is imposed.

[max6462]

how long should one wait to get an interview?

[airwaya457]

max6462,

I think they are still recruiting on all fleets, Good luck!

[tic]

Well done TOGA BOY

I for one am happy. At the end of the day, if I work hard, and don't really have much choice, it's my job, but I'm here to work not whinge about nothing, my take home is more than EK. ( yes, I work for GT).Believe it or not, it's true, provided I go over 75 hours. It's not the point really. Money isn't everything. If you don't like it, go elsewhere and " maybe find something better". One thing about GF/GT, if you are loyal, you will have the job for the rest of your flying days. They ( Management) may not say so, which they should, but unless you make a huge "stuff up"they will always back you up. How many people go "sick"for nothing? We ALL know, don't we? The Airline, doesn't matter, but what they want, is people they can rely on, so bitch all you want, they don't have to be the enemy.Nothing and no airline is perfect and never will be. Fact is that we have a job, be grateful for that, so many guys don't. Just remember all of us have a skill that most people don't have, we can fly aeroplanes, management can't, and their livelihood depends on us just as much as ours does on them.
At the end of the day, we all made a choice, if you don't like it, get out, don't complain so much. All of us a so much luckier than millions of people. We at least have the best office, bar none.