bop145
30th Apr 2004, 14:19
J.A.A = Joint Aviation Authorities (correct me if I’m wrong)
Yesterday I had another discussion with a colleague about JAA licenses and especially the really wanted JAA-ATPL. Normally I don’t post anything on pprune, but this time I just want to see if other pilots share the same ideas or if there’s anyone around who can give me an answer to the following scenarios.
1. How to get a JAA-ATPL?
Since the rules have changes I’ve heard a lot of complains from people finding it hard to get an ATPL in certain countries. Some people (I’ve experienced this first hand) fill in their JAA-ATPL application form, have all the hours required, send their logbook to the authorities, even attach a proficiency check form and get the following response: We can’t conclude from your sent items that you did your profcheck as a PIC. And I just thought, that’s weird, my CPL (national at the time) clearly states PIC behind my type rating. So I decided to give the almighty authorities a call to ask them what it was that they are looking for. Response: the company has to make a statement that the check was conducted under a “commander environment”. So what do they mean with this? Does this mean you have to be in the left seat or can you do it from the right seat? This was a question the authorities couldn’t answer for me at that time. I even tried calling the authorities from another country (also a JAA member) and they told me the same thing.
With this answer I went to my companies’ chief instructor and told him I needed a PIC check. He told me this meant a captains check (read: left seat) and you would need an ATPL for that, so he couldn’t give me one. This made me afraid, very afraid, because it basically meant I could NEVER become a captain, because you need an ATPL before the company can decide to upgrade you, but you CANNOT GET an ATPL without doing a PIC check.
I’ve also noticed that in other European countries it’s a lot easier to get a JAA-ATPL, but I was really under the impression that rules, regulations and requirements were supposed to be the same.
2. Another thing that struck me as being weird (at least I don’t understand it) is that it obviously makes a difference in which country your JAA license has been issued. I was under the impression that all licenses where now equal to each other and that it would make things a lot easier. Talking about EASYer, I’ve heard that at certain companies they want you to have a JAA license, but it has to be issued in a certain country. Is it me or does this basically mean I have to pay money to get the same sort of EUROPEAN license, but just issued in another country? What kind of reasoning could be behind this?
If there’s anyone who knows the answers to these questions, please let me know so I can also tell it to some friends/colleagues of mine. If it’s total B.S. what I wrote down you can also tell me, but I do know that these are issues which give some pilots troubles and also another thing to waist money on for nothing (as if we already haven’t invested enough).
Happy Flying!
Yesterday I had another discussion with a colleague about JAA licenses and especially the really wanted JAA-ATPL. Normally I don’t post anything on pprune, but this time I just want to see if other pilots share the same ideas or if there’s anyone around who can give me an answer to the following scenarios.
1. How to get a JAA-ATPL?
Since the rules have changes I’ve heard a lot of complains from people finding it hard to get an ATPL in certain countries. Some people (I’ve experienced this first hand) fill in their JAA-ATPL application form, have all the hours required, send their logbook to the authorities, even attach a proficiency check form and get the following response: We can’t conclude from your sent items that you did your profcheck as a PIC. And I just thought, that’s weird, my CPL (national at the time) clearly states PIC behind my type rating. So I decided to give the almighty authorities a call to ask them what it was that they are looking for. Response: the company has to make a statement that the check was conducted under a “commander environment”. So what do they mean with this? Does this mean you have to be in the left seat or can you do it from the right seat? This was a question the authorities couldn’t answer for me at that time. I even tried calling the authorities from another country (also a JAA member) and they told me the same thing.
With this answer I went to my companies’ chief instructor and told him I needed a PIC check. He told me this meant a captains check (read: left seat) and you would need an ATPL for that, so he couldn’t give me one. This made me afraid, very afraid, because it basically meant I could NEVER become a captain, because you need an ATPL before the company can decide to upgrade you, but you CANNOT GET an ATPL without doing a PIC check.
I’ve also noticed that in other European countries it’s a lot easier to get a JAA-ATPL, but I was really under the impression that rules, regulations and requirements were supposed to be the same.
2. Another thing that struck me as being weird (at least I don’t understand it) is that it obviously makes a difference in which country your JAA license has been issued. I was under the impression that all licenses where now equal to each other and that it would make things a lot easier. Talking about EASYer, I’ve heard that at certain companies they want you to have a JAA license, but it has to be issued in a certain country. Is it me or does this basically mean I have to pay money to get the same sort of EUROPEAN license, but just issued in another country? What kind of reasoning could be behind this?
If there’s anyone who knows the answers to these questions, please let me know so I can also tell it to some friends/colleagues of mine. If it’s total B.S. what I wrote down you can also tell me, but I do know that these are issues which give some pilots troubles and also another thing to waist money on for nothing (as if we already haven’t invested enough).
Happy Flying!