JET2 Consolidating?

[AQUAPLANE1]

Have things gone quiet at Leeds Bradford now, or are Channex looking for other aprons to place their 737's with Thompson moving into their playground????:\

[radarcontrol]

I have a great view of the 14 approach path where I live, and the winds have been from the south for the last 2 days. Plenty of Jet2 planes have been flying by.. in fact, seems like every time I look up I see one riding the glide.

RC

[nibor]

I just don't see Finningley taking much of a toll on either Jet2 or LBA as a whole.
It's so difficult to get to LBA from anywhere North of Leeds that those who would be tempted to fly from Finningley are the ones that already use the M62 to fly from Speke or Ringway and any foreigners wishing to travel to Yorkshire are unlikely to want to fly to an airport which sounds like it's in Nottinghamshire!!
It would be a nice easy divert though when the shroud of fog decends around LBA.

I do think Finningley has a role as a longhaul competitor to both Newcastle and Ringway, it just has to attract some big names. Virgin would be nice or an American carrier.
It would also be a good base for any prospective longhaul low cost carriers that may wish to start up, good deals on airport charges and handling will probably be available.
Maybe even a couple of freighter that are tired of the congestion at other northern hubs.

[dwlpl]

Have things gone quiet at Leeds Bradford now, or are Channex looking for other aprons to place their 737's Jet2 have taken to start advertising their Venice route in the Liverpool media.

[Mouser]

I do think Finningley has a role nibor me old mate , its going to take traffic away from LBA not LPL or MAN, as for North of Leeds A1 slip road signposted LBA or stay on A1 to Doncaster or head for M62 and another 60/70 miles and LPL/MAN.

[Buster the Bear]

Luton and Stansted co-exist as low cost airports and are only 25 miles by air apart.

Mind you, they both have massive catchment areas to draw UK based passengers from.

The two airports combined will shift over 26 million passengers this year.

[KAT TOO]

If Donny put's a Cat 3 ILS system in, then by summer 06 most of the leeds charter traffic will be gone, however i understand that LBA are to go ahead with the 300m starter strip at the Scotland lane end and that this will become part of the LDA for 14 together with a Cat 3 ILS on 14 and that might reduce the diverts?

[Optical Illyushin]

Cat3 on 14.... ohmegawd! Does the glidepath still make you seasick?? Used to regurgitate me' chikken drests hehe! ;)

[MEFLYBE]

KAT TOO

Some of your predictions amaze me, firstly, Humberside is dead, and now LBA will lose it's near on 50 per week summer charter flights by 2006 if RH adds a cat 3 ILS!!!

Have looked at your profile, but does'nt say what you do for a living, care to enlighten us because it sure as hell can't be aviation related!

Regards

Mike

[Optical Illyushin]

Oh yes it can....... :p

[radarcontrol]

Robin Hood Doncaster Sheffield International Airport? The name alone sounds ridiculous.. I can't even take it seriously.
Leeds will be just fine, besides, if the charter traffic ******s off that means I'll spend less time holding when I start my PPL.

RC

[symphonyangel]

Radarcontol - you've taken the thread off to one that exists already but you don't need to add the unnecessary 'International' word to the airport name. Has anyone at LBA ever wondered why they need to call themselves International?

As for the thread, RHA will probably create new travellers rather than substitute given the experience when lcc have opened up at other airports but if there ought to be some substitution for MAN as its an appauling journey over the Pennines and thats what most passengers from the region do.

[682ft AMSL]

Symphony - that of course is the real crux of the issue; the fundamental problem is that demand to fly in or out of Yorkshire equates to millions of seats each year, its just that most of this demand is serviced through other airports. As the dft said in the aviation consultation document for the North:

7.16.1 The key factor in any discussion of air services in Yorkshire and the Humber is the very high levels of demand leakage to other regions, especially Manchester (51%), the London Airports (11%) and East Midlands (5%). In total 75% of passengers originating in Yorkshire and the Humber actually fly from airports in other regions. The recent and potential future development of Manchester Airport is very relevant in this context.

Geographically, Yorkshire is a big place and the rate of leakage will differ depending on where in the county you look. In the Finningley core catchment area of South Yorks and North Notts, levels of leakage to East Mids, Brum and the London Airports will be higher than the core LBA catchment which is 40 odd miles away and where leakage to MAN and LPL is higher.

The main point to note is that the core catchment areas of LBA and Finningley are distinct and sizeable. The debate is less about Leeds vs Finningley and much more about Leeds AND Finningley vs MAN, EMA and the rest.

682

[WHBM]

Although a high proportion of those living in Yorkshire may be using airports outside the region, Finningley will not address this because the services which are going to operate out of there are pretty much the same type, to the same destinations, as already exist from Leeds and E Midlands.

These two airports have a fair (not large) choice of low cost and IT destinations, a handful of European business routes, and no long haul schedules. And that's exactly what Finningley, long runway or not, is going to provide as well.

Press speculation that it could attract the likes of Emirates, American, Lufthansa or even BA, is just uninformed column filling.

[682ft AMSL]

WHBM - but E.Mids is outside of the Yorks region, so if Finningley does claw back traffic from EMA - it *will* go some way to addressing the issue. And focussing on short-haul, leisure and IT is exactly the right way to go about clawing traffic back because it is on these types of routes that the greatest leakage occurs.

Whilst Jet2 have undoubtedly increased choice for the seat-only market in the core LBA catchment area, the level of IT services from both LBA and HUY is awful. Between them LBA and HUY managed to scrape 0.9m IT passengers in 2003. Cardiff had 0.9m, Bristol 1.3m, East Mids 1.5m, Newcastle 1.6m.

Manchester had 9.3m charter passengers and when you throw in the seat-only market, one gets an idea of the huge scale of the short-haul leisure market at MAN (and therefore the huge opportunity for LBA and Finningley). At 0.9m, there were as many seats occupied between MAN and TFS in 2003 as there were total IT passengers from LBA and HUY combined. The 2.5m seats occupied between MAN and ALC, PMI & AGP is about the same as the total passenger throughput as LBA and HUY. 50% of the international traffic going through MAN is to just 10 destinations (TFS, ALC, PMI, AGP, DUB, CDG, FAO, AMS, ACE and LPA). 80% of their international traffic is to Europe (inc Cyprus).

This is why Finningley will concentrate on short-haul, low-cost and IT. It is also why the management at LBA are much less worried about Finningley than they are the ongoing struggle to claw traffic back from MAN.

682

[nibor]

682

A very well thought out post.
Do you think that freight will play any part in Donny's future?



I would expect Jet2 to jump in soon with something new before TCX get going.
Maybe service a couple of the routes that TCX announced which Jet2 do not operate to or even invest in a longer range 737 or two and have a go at the Canaries.

I just don't get the impression from Mr Meeson that he will sit back and wait.

[LBA]

Hiya all im new here, another LBA local.
May I ask what are you saying when you say Jet2 will repsond to TCX? Are TCX going to start operating from LBA?

[brabazon]

LBA - think it's because TCX will be operating from Finningley (sorry can't use the Robin Hood name) and therefore they may be competing for the same passengers.

[LBA]

Damn! Was getting excited then thinking TCX were coming to LBA.

[aeulad]

TCX are basing at DSA????

Regards

Mike

[brabazon]

Sorry Mike, must be some confusion here. I'd assumed nibor was referring to Thomsonfly as TCX . We'll have to wait for nibor to clear up the confusion.

[nibor]

Whoops!!!!!
SORRY everone, i do mean Thomsonfly.

[LBAir]

I would like to thank 682 for your obvious knowledge and write ups. Your posts are spot on!!

from YORKSHIRE:ok: the place to be is the city of Leeds.

[KAT TOO]

I've been right more than i've been wrong, Leeds is a great place to live, the airports in the wrong place, be it weather, road links or catchment area.

If you fly from Leeds every week and live nearby then Donny isn't going to provide what you want, however if you only fly when your off on your jollies, then it doesn't make much difference whether you spend an hour or so going to MAN DSA EMA. You only have to look at the winter skiing program (or lack off) from Leeds to see that Manchester will see passengers move to DSA if they provide the flights and the bulk of these are charter, not Loco.

If your still around (MEFLYBE) in a few years, look back at whats left of flights (charter) from Humberside, i don't think they'll be many. If Humberside had any growth in it the Locos would have moved in by now, it'll be like Exeter, half of b****r all.

Sure Leeds will still be around with the likes of Midland, Eastern and Flybe for the scheduled stuff, i hope JET2 stay, but they must get it right this summer, they have a good product and are well liked by the punters, but these same punter have the memory time span of a gold fish. If you don't believe me then ask some one who only travels on a charter flight once or twice a year, then chances are they won't remember who they flew with.

Thomsonfly are a very big group and will spend a stack putting donny on the map, so mefly, its time for mebed, got a truck to drive in't mornin

He He oft t't hare port:cool:

[aeulad]

"it'll be like exeter, half of b****r all"

This just proves my point, that you don't have a clue about what you're going on about!

In 2003, EXT handled approx 380,000 pax, this figure, following Flybe's expansion there is expected to be nearer the 500,000 mark for 2004, does this increase make EXT half of b****r all?????

So so far you have said that HUY and LBA will lose virtually ALL of their IT traffic to DSA and that EXT is heading down a similar grim path!

What are you on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards

Mike

[KAT TOO]

You don't get it do you 380k is a whisker over a 1000 a day, factor in the summer charter traffic and outside that season it less than half that , far more people from the Exeter region end up going to BRS or Cardiff, just like the car loads that make the trek across the M62 to MAN from Leeds, all i'm saying is that with DSA opening up some of that market will be pulled from MAN & it won't do Leeds an favours.

As for FLYBE growing Exeter well time will tell if passengers really want to fly on turboprops however new and clever they are ( the aircraft not the pax!)

As for Humberside, a slow and painfull death awaits, still it'll make a great flying club.

Now FLYBE isn't that the outfit that order the CRJ and found that many of their senior guys couldn't handel the conversion so the got rid of the aircraft, not the guys that couldn't make the grade.

Then they ordered the RJX but Bae couldn't make it and sell it at a profit. So now its a mix of slow 146 & RJ's clogging the airways until they run out of puff the wrong side of 30k and quickish (for a prop) dash well the latest one any way.
Is this not the oufit that started LBA -LCY for about a fortnight, but kept it a secret.....yep they'll grow the Exeter movements positioning flights for servicing don't make anyone a lot of money


Light blue touch paper and stand well back....He He:8

[ALLMCC]

It never ceases to amaze me how these threads start out on one topic and end up on a totally different one - this one is a good example - began as "Jet 2 consolidating" and now has mutated into yet another Flybe bashing!

As far as the Q400 is concerned, if the loads they are getting on GLA & EDI - BHD are anything to go by, then the punters must be more than happy to travel on them!

[eastern wiseguy]

Comical wrote

never ceases to amaze me how these threads start out on one topic and end up on a totally different one -

Q400 is concerned, if the loads they are getting on GLA & EDI - BHD are anything to go by,

and so he manages to bring HIS own special hobby horse bhd into the frame.Back to JET 2 and how they are "consolidating"or not please

[Optical Illyushin]

Hehe..... I'd rather stick around for the bun fight if that's alright with you Eastern!!

Mike - why aeulad? Did you get banned from posting as MEFLYBE for your ability to "lose it" for no apparent reason? KAT TOO, whilst rather unpleasing to the eye, IS rather knowledgeable in all things aviation and is only expressing an opinion when all is said and done...... :}

[Chillwinston]

KAT TOO

While I dont agree with your comments as we are all entitled to our own opinions I just cannot see how you have come to your conclusions.

"As for Humberside, a slow and painfull death awaits, still it'll make a great flying club."

Tarrot cards, palmist or just wishful thinking?

[aeulad]

Not at all, I changed companies, so it made no sense to be known as MEFLYBE any more.

Regards

MIke

[JobsaGoodun]

Much as I hate digressing on threads I do think that some of KAT TOO's views are in need of correction.

Flybe's reason for getting shot of the CRJ's is that they were far too expensive to operate on the routes they were being used on (LBABHD, BHXEDI) compared with the Dash 8's. They were also too small at just 50 seats.

It all goes back about 5 years when the initial order was made. As a major franchisee of Air France, and with the prospect of operating routes such as EDICDG and GLACDG the CRJ was selected for which it was ideal. In the time it took to manufacture the aircraft AF went on a spending spree and purchased Regional Airlines and Britair adding countless 50 seat jets to their fleet and so negating the need for Flybe's CRJ's.

There was certainly no issues regarding the skill of Flybe's flight crews!!!

Yes the 146 is old and yes it is quite slow but Flybe know the aircraft inside out and the lease rates are at rock bottom negating any extra costs incurred from operating the type.

RE. LBALCY....Flybe now have a larger national marketing spend that either Ryanair and Easyjet at £10million per annum. They also sponsor local Exeter City FC and premiership side Birmingham City.

The base at Exeter is doing better than anticipated and routes from EXT to MAN/NCL/AMS and CDG are likely later in the year from October.