JET2 Consolidating?
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JET2 Consolidating?
Have things gone quiet at Leeds Bradford now, or are Channex looking for other aprons to place their 737's with Thompson moving into their playground????
Join Date: May 2003
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I have a great view of the 14 approach path where I live, and the winds have been from the south for the last 2 days. Plenty of Jet2 planes have been flying by.. in fact, seems like every time I look up I see one riding the glide.
RC
RC
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I just don't see Finningley taking much of a toll on either Jet2 or LBA as a whole.
It's so difficult to get to LBA from anywhere North of Leeds that those who would be tempted to fly from Finningley are the ones that already use the M62 to fly from Speke or Ringway and any foreigners wishing to travel to Yorkshire are unlikely to want to fly to an airport which sounds like it's in Nottinghamshire!!
It would be a nice easy divert though when the shroud of fog decends around LBA.
I do think Finningley has a role as a longhaul competitor to both Newcastle and Ringway, it just has to attract some big names. Virgin would be nice or an American carrier.
It would also be a good base for any prospective longhaul low cost carriers that may wish to start up, good deals on airport charges and handling will probably be available.
Maybe even a couple of freighter that are tired of the congestion at other northern hubs.
It's so difficult to get to LBA from anywhere North of Leeds that those who would be tempted to fly from Finningley are the ones that already use the M62 to fly from Speke or Ringway and any foreigners wishing to travel to Yorkshire are unlikely to want to fly to an airport which sounds like it's in Nottinghamshire!!
It would be a nice easy divert though when the shroud of fog decends around LBA.
I do think Finningley has a role as a longhaul competitor to both Newcastle and Ringway, it just has to attract some big names. Virgin would be nice or an American carrier.
It would also be a good base for any prospective longhaul low cost carriers that may wish to start up, good deals on airport charges and handling will probably be available.
Maybe even a couple of freighter that are tired of the congestion at other northern hubs.
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Have things gone quiet at Leeds Bradford now, or are Channex looking for other aprons to place their 737's
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I do think Finningley has a role nibor me old mate , its going to take traffic away from LBA not LPL or MAN, as for North of Leeds A1 slip road signposted LBA or stay on A1 to Doncaster or head for M62 and another 60/70 miles and LPL/MAN.
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Luton and Stansted co-exist as low cost airports and are only 25 miles by air apart.
Mind you, they both have massive catchment areas to draw UK based passengers from.
The two airports combined will shift over 26 million passengers this year.
Mind you, they both have massive catchment areas to draw UK based passengers from.
The two airports combined will shift over 26 million passengers this year.
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If Donny put's a Cat 3 ILS system in, then by summer 06 most of the leeds charter traffic will be gone, however i understand that LBA are to go ahead with the 300m starter strip at the Scotland lane end and that this will become part of the LDA for 14 together with a Cat 3 ILS on 14 and that might reduce the diverts?
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KAT TOO
Some of your predictions amaze me, firstly, Humberside is dead, and now LBA will lose it's near on 50 per week summer charter flights by 2006 if RH adds a cat 3 ILS!!!
Have looked at your profile, but does'nt say what you do for a living, care to enlighten us because it sure as hell can't be aviation related!
Regards
Mike
Some of your predictions amaze me, firstly, Humberside is dead, and now LBA will lose it's near on 50 per week summer charter flights by 2006 if RH adds a cat 3 ILS!!!
Have looked at your profile, but does'nt say what you do for a living, care to enlighten us because it sure as hell can't be aviation related!
Regards
Mike
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Robin Hood Doncaster Sheffield International Airport? The name alone sounds ridiculous.. I can't even take it seriously.
Leeds will be just fine, besides, if the charter traffic ******s off that means I'll spend less time holding when I start my PPL.
RC
Leeds will be just fine, besides, if the charter traffic ******s off that means I'll spend less time holding when I start my PPL.
RC
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Radarcontol - you've taken the thread off to one that exists already but you don't need to add the unnecessary 'International' word to the airport name. Has anyone at LBA ever wondered why they need to call themselves International?
As for the thread, RHA will probably create new travellers rather than substitute given the experience when lcc have opened up at other airports but if there ought to be some substitution for MAN as its an appauling journey over the Pennines and thats what most passengers from the region do.
As for the thread, RHA will probably create new travellers rather than substitute given the experience when lcc have opened up at other airports but if there ought to be some substitution for MAN as its an appauling journey over the Pennines and thats what most passengers from the region do.
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Symphony - that of course is the real crux of the issue; the fundamental problem is that demand to fly in or out of Yorkshire equates to millions of seats each year, its just that most of this demand is serviced through other airports. As the dft said in the aviation consultation document for the North:
7.16.1 The key factor in any discussion of air services in Yorkshire and the Humber is the very high levels of demand leakage to other regions, especially Manchester (51%), the London Airports (11%) and East Midlands (5%). In total 75% of passengers originating in Yorkshire and the Humber actually fly from airports in other regions. The recent and potential future development of Manchester Airport is very relevant in this context.
Geographically, Yorkshire is a big place and the rate of leakage will differ depending on where in the county you look. In the Finningley core catchment area of South Yorks and North Notts, levels of leakage to East Mids, Brum and the London Airports will be higher than the core LBA catchment which is 40 odd miles away and where leakage to MAN and LPL is higher.
The main point to note is that the core catchment areas of LBA and Finningley are distinct and sizeable. The debate is less about Leeds vs Finningley and much more about Leeds AND Finningley vs MAN, EMA and the rest.
682
7.16.1 The key factor in any discussion of air services in Yorkshire and the Humber is the very high levels of demand leakage to other regions, especially Manchester (51%), the London Airports (11%) and East Midlands (5%). In total 75% of passengers originating in Yorkshire and the Humber actually fly from airports in other regions. The recent and potential future development of Manchester Airport is very relevant in this context.
Geographically, Yorkshire is a big place and the rate of leakage will differ depending on where in the county you look. In the Finningley core catchment area of South Yorks and North Notts, levels of leakage to East Mids, Brum and the London Airports will be higher than the core LBA catchment which is 40 odd miles away and where leakage to MAN and LPL is higher.
The main point to note is that the core catchment areas of LBA and Finningley are distinct and sizeable. The debate is less about Leeds vs Finningley and much more about Leeds AND Finningley vs MAN, EMA and the rest.
682
Although a high proportion of those living in Yorkshire may be using airports outside the region, Finningley will not address this because the services which are going to operate out of there are pretty much the same type, to the same destinations, as already exist from Leeds and E Midlands.
These two airports have a fair (not large) choice of low cost and IT destinations, a handful of European business routes, and no long haul schedules. And that's exactly what Finningley, long runway or not, is going to provide as well.
Press speculation that it could attract the likes of Emirates, American, Lufthansa or even BA, is just uninformed column filling.
These two airports have a fair (not large) choice of low cost and IT destinations, a handful of European business routes, and no long haul schedules. And that's exactly what Finningley, long runway or not, is going to provide as well.
Press speculation that it could attract the likes of Emirates, American, Lufthansa or even BA, is just uninformed column filling.
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WHBM - but E.Mids is outside of the Yorks region, so if Finningley does claw back traffic from EMA - it *will* go some way to addressing the issue. And focussing on short-haul, leisure and IT is exactly the right way to go about clawing traffic back because it is on these types of routes that the greatest leakage occurs.
Whilst Jet2 have undoubtedly increased choice for the seat-only market in the core LBA catchment area, the level of IT services from both LBA and HUY is awful. Between them LBA and HUY managed to scrape 0.9m IT passengers in 2003. Cardiff had 0.9m, Bristol 1.3m, East Mids 1.5m, Newcastle 1.6m.
Manchester had 9.3m charter passengers and when you throw in the seat-only market, one gets an idea of the huge scale of the short-haul leisure market at MAN (and therefore the huge opportunity for LBA and Finningley). At 0.9m, there were as many seats occupied between MAN and TFS in 2003 as there were total IT passengers from LBA and HUY combined. The 2.5m seats occupied between MAN and ALC, PMI & AGP is about the same as the total passenger throughput as LBA and HUY. 50% of the international traffic going through MAN is to just 10 destinations (TFS, ALC, PMI, AGP, DUB, CDG, FAO, AMS, ACE and LPA). 80% of their international traffic is to Europe (inc Cyprus).
This is why Finningley will concentrate on short-haul, low-cost and IT. It is also why the management at LBA are much less worried about Finningley than they are the ongoing struggle to claw traffic back from MAN.
682
Whilst Jet2 have undoubtedly increased choice for the seat-only market in the core LBA catchment area, the level of IT services from both LBA and HUY is awful. Between them LBA and HUY managed to scrape 0.9m IT passengers in 2003. Cardiff had 0.9m, Bristol 1.3m, East Mids 1.5m, Newcastle 1.6m.
Manchester had 9.3m charter passengers and when you throw in the seat-only market, one gets an idea of the huge scale of the short-haul leisure market at MAN (and therefore the huge opportunity for LBA and Finningley). At 0.9m, there were as many seats occupied between MAN and TFS in 2003 as there were total IT passengers from LBA and HUY combined. The 2.5m seats occupied between MAN and ALC, PMI & AGP is about the same as the total passenger throughput as LBA and HUY. 50% of the international traffic going through MAN is to just 10 destinations (TFS, ALC, PMI, AGP, DUB, CDG, FAO, AMS, ACE and LPA). 80% of their international traffic is to Europe (inc Cyprus).
This is why Finningley will concentrate on short-haul, low-cost and IT. It is also why the management at LBA are much less worried about Finningley than they are the ongoing struggle to claw traffic back from MAN.
682
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682
A very well thought out post.
Do you think that freight will play any part in Donny's future?
I would expect Jet2 to jump in soon with something new before TCX get going.
Maybe service a couple of the routes that TCX announced which Jet2 do not operate to or even invest in a longer range 737 or two and have a go at the Canaries.
I just don't get the impression from Mr Meeson that he will sit back and wait.
A very well thought out post.
Do you think that freight will play any part in Donny's future?
I would expect Jet2 to jump in soon with something new before TCX get going.
Maybe service a couple of the routes that TCX announced which Jet2 do not operate to or even invest in a longer range 737 or two and have a go at the Canaries.
I just don't get the impression from Mr Meeson that he will sit back and wait.