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DouglasDigby
12th Mar 2001, 23:42
From today's Flight International:

DHL have 34 B757/236 Special Freighters on order, and of these, 23 will be based at EMA, delivery between July 2001 and May 2003.

Lots of jobs on offer, ranging from Chief Pilot to Operations.

Line captains - 4000 hours TT, to include 1000 hours on jet transport greater than 40 tonnes.

First officers - 1500 hours TT, to include either 500 hours jet transport, or, 1000 hours turbine experience.

PPRuNe Towers
12th Mar 2001, 23:59
This is the ad that will radically alter the playing field during current and forthcoming pay and conditions negotiations at many UK airlines, especially the charter companies.

There are large numbers of very senior and experienced people who have been waiting for this ad. Managers will naturally play it poker faced but have been carefully checking out sim and trainer course availability.

Some will also try to make to make capital of initial delivery delays to the freighter conversion line. This has been caused by Belgian CAA demands for totally new paperwork for an initial batch of ex-BA aircraft for use within the Belgian DHL operation. Both BA and Boeing are working flat out to resolve this issue and, once sorted, it will have little or no effect on aircraft for use within the UK operation.

------------------
Regards from the Towers
[email protected]

Jet Man
13th Mar 2001, 00:27
Hopefully will have a very positive (for the pilots) effect on negiotiations.

Will there be any experienced jet pilots around soon with DHL as well as the low cost carriers hiring like wild fire?

mutt
13th Mar 2001, 01:18
But who is the operating company?

Air Contractors, EAT, Sterling or DHL UK ???(ie someone new.)

DouglasDigby
13th Mar 2001, 01:39
According to the advert, it says "DHL has ordered 34 x B757/236 Special Freighters and is devloping a new UK Airline based at EMA...."

It follows on to say "....join our flight crew team in a new international airline...."

On that basis, I would guess "new" but perhaps a subsidary of DHL Worldwide Express.

The Guvnor
13th Mar 2001, 02:43
PPRuNe Towers said: <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">This has been caused by Belgian CAA demands for totally new paperwork for an initial batch of ex-BA aircraft for use within the Belgian DHL operation. Both BA and Boeing are working flat out to resolve this issue and, once sorted, it will have little or no effect on aircraft for use within the UK operation. </font>

Hang on, isn't Belgium JAA? And isn't the UK? So how come the Belgian CAA wants new/additional dcoumentation? Or is this simply them being their usual objectionable selves? :) :) :)

CaptSensible
13th Mar 2001, 03:53
This is the occasion where the bonding ripoff can be stopped.

If they need to crew 35 aircraft, and it's unlikely they'll get rated people, anyone signing a bond is letting themselves and the side down. If they can't recruit pilots they'll have no airline.

Remember...they need you as much as you need them.

Just say NO!

EI - E I - O
13th Mar 2001, 05:02
Some of the aircraft are going to be converted pax 757's,from the BA Fleet.
Does anybody know, where the conversions are happening?

Thanx.


With a Foot & Mouth Here and Foot & Mouth There, old Mac Donald lost his farm!
EEEEEE--IIIII-EEEE-IIIII-OH!

Mad-Dog11
13th Mar 2001, 11:41
mutt - The new operating name will be DHL Air i beleive - which is/was the name of the joint DHL / Hunting Cargo company that used to be based there before Hunting left. The airline would probably be a subsidiary of DHL Aviation.

EI EI O - the aircraft are being done at Boeing's Special Aircraft Services place.

When i hear of any other news regarding this airline i'll let everyone know.

Cheers all

COWPAT
13th Mar 2001, 12:40
Anyone know the package for a Captain?

Wish I,d bought that house in Oakham now.

Jonty
13th Mar 2001, 13:07
Rumors are around of a package for captains of: 80k basic pay with 20k expences with a pension, loss of licence and health insurance. Working 6 days on 8 days off.

Not confirmed but thats what is being banded around our company at the moment.

Jet Man
13th Mar 2001, 13:26
Don't think they'll have many pilots refusing to sign a bond with a salary like that!

1.3VStall
13th Mar 2001, 15:58
EI EI O,

The first two aircraft are being converted by Boeing in Wichita. The rest will be split between Mobile and Tel Aviv.

The Zombie
13th Mar 2001, 16:21
EI - E I - O

'With a Foot & Mouth Here and Foot & Mouth There, old Mac Donald lost his farm!
EEEEEE--IIIII-EEEE-IIIII-OH!'

You are a very sad person but hey, it did make me smile!?

==========================================

On a serious note the quoted package, for a B757 captain at DHL UK, if true is more than pay point 20 (years) basic pay at BA with similar expenses too!

Now that will help their (BA) pay claim no end this year. Cheapest in the business I guess for a dual rated B757/767 Shorthaul/Longhaul rated pilot and with the cost of living near London to contend with.

Good luck as if they get a good pay rise so do all of us.

geronimo
13th Mar 2001, 17:17
Sounds like paradise, if money's anything to go by.....I think NOT....Guy at the top is Trefor "could talk a dog off a meatwagon" Jones....Name sound familiar?

There goes my application.

G.

spagiola
13th Mar 2001, 17:39
The Guvnor asks:
&gt; Hang on, isn't Belgium JAA? And isn't the
&gt; UK? So how come the Belgian CAA wants
&gt; new/additional dcoumentation? Or is this
&gt; simply them being their usual
&gt; objectionable selves?

Ask TNT sometime about the Belgian CAA.

Approaching_the_minimums
13th Mar 2001, 18:48
Hi guys,

for any info on the B757SF here's the boeing newspost on it:

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2001/q1/news_release_010302a.html

There was also an article in flight 'bout a week ago metionning that the first plane was delivered 10 weeks late, funny the boeing site didn't mention it. ;)

As for the Belgian CAA 'Sigh', I wish I could prove you wrong but unfortunately this institute has got the most abnogtious(ow how do you spell this word) in the world. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

Cheers
ADM

EI - E I - O
13th Mar 2001, 18:48
If I can make a Zombie , smile, it can't be bad!

deltahotel
13th Mar 2001, 19:08
Any information on the rostering/work regime?

cart tart 1
13th Mar 2001, 19:30
i hear that there are no jobs going in belgium where they are getting the 757s as they are going to 727 captains + first officers that are already there!!!!!

Mr @ Spotty M
13th Mar 2001, 20:42
Some of the delay on the delivery might be due to Maintenance changes.
I have seen some of BA Maintenance check packs.
They may be ok for BA, but can be a nightmare for others.
DHL might need the check pack reorganised.
This might have caused the delay at Boeing.
Moving or zeroing the CPCP package, will cause major problems.
So it might not be all the Belgium CAA fault.

2XL
13th Mar 2001, 23:08
Any progress in the hunt for specific terms and conditions? What are the latest guesstimates for Cpt and FO salaries?

OC41
13th Mar 2001, 23:15
Just a reminder to all interested Pilots that
these B757F's fly at night, something that often slips the mind after Final Line Check.

Can I guestimate that the package would need to attract Pilots with this in mind?

If so should be interesting following this situ.
Rgds

charles lindbergh
14th Mar 2001, 00:29
If all this information is correct ,i wouldnt be surprised if ACL and other freight opperators would lose some crews to DHL UK!

CAL

ETOPS
14th Mar 2001, 01:28
Whoa! Hold on guys.....

Most of these 757's are ex BA shuttle A/C in the vicinty of 20 years old and yours truly has thrashed everyone of them to death! I only hope they've staightened 'KA out - nightmare to get in trim and as for 'KB - no you don't want to know.........

neil armstrong
14th Mar 2001, 01:35
Only 20years old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It must be nice to fly a new a/c like that.
:)
ETOPS just remember us freightdogs fly old junk all the time (Anything is better than flying SLF)

Neil

marshall.m
14th Mar 2001, 02:42
pssssttttt neil maybe we will get more money to stay, our annual review in june! maybe before if we tell em loads have applied, i hear SR has resigned! whos next, "u know"!

upfront
14th Mar 2001, 03:44
As for the roster. Ya you will get 26 of them in a year starting on a Monday, but I can asure you that after your first sector you can scrap it, you go where the freight goes/is.

Monday to Friday expect to operate at least 4 sectors a night and spending at least 2 hours sitting in the crew room in BRU.

Sat & Sun less sectors more boredom.

And if you get 8 days off the first you will spend in bed and the 8th also in bed getting some rest for that nights flying!

Happy flying

thegypsy
14th Mar 2001, 08:06
To all you dreamers out there. The B757 jobs with DHL are handled by EAT at Brussels. Inge Vanbets is the lady to contact. They advertised some time ago in Flight. Look at previous threads on pay and conditions at DHL where it was stated by someone in DHL that after tax you got 3000 pounds sterling after tax in first year plus about 400 per month per diems.The 13th month and .9 months salary you do not get until you have been there for one year I believe. How this now translates to 80000 + 20000 beggars belief!! But then again this is a rumour network!! DHL have never been the best payers in the business and these B757 are not all additional aircraft but also replacements to 727.There will always be enough pilots around who will jump at a B757 conversion even with a bond. Sad but true.

thegypsy
14th Mar 2001, 08:14
CART tart 1. You heard wrong. I HAVE BEEN offered job as B757 Captain in Belgium. I am already rated on type.These 35 aircraft are cioming over a long period as well remember. Also 4 sectors all at night with long periods inbetween for loading and unloading all through the usual horrible North European winter, not for the faint hearted.

Obnoxious is how the word is spelt I think

111boy
14th Mar 2001, 14:53
Is it worth asking if anyone has an idea bout f/o wages ??

E. MORSE
14th Mar 2001, 15:04
Sorry don't know any Mr. Jones.
Guess he is a bad guy ?

As an European 757 capt. it sounds as a good deal to me. Thought the EAT (DHL)Brussels guys had something like 6 days on 6 days off but this has to be confirmed further. Pay wasn't bad there either, so the rumour might as well be true.

Can anybody tell me where EMA is ?
(Maybe i've an answer before my next flight where i can look it up ofcourse)
Is it a nice area in the UK to live ?

By the way if there will be 23 757's based in EMA where will the other 11 be based at ?

Hello UK , here i come ? http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif
forget the sunglasses though
cheers !
:)

foghorn
14th Mar 2001, 15:22
E.MORSE

EMA is East Midlands. In the triangle between the cities of Derby, Nottingham and Leicester.

Nice part of the world - low cost of property and living compared to London (two hours drive away), very rural outside these cities.

Bernoulli
14th Mar 2001, 15:29
DID SOMEONE SAY TREFOR JONES!!

This bloke came into Gill Air (as then was) at the top and promptly p*ssed money all over the place, not always very wisely. He was a cold fish and most definitely not a 'people person'. When the investors who had backed him (3i, and a couple of others who I can't remember)eventually came to see where the money had all gone they were somewhat shocked.

Some of their cash had ALLEGEDLY been spent on various flats around the UK along with a multitude of other perks. Anyway, Trefor was given the boot PDQ to general rejoicing and a Company Troubleshooter was brought in by the investors to sort out the mess.

We joked at the time 'How do you make a small fortune in aviation? Start by giving a large one to ****** *****!'

What amazes me is how people like this get a second chance in aviation. The porkies that must be told beggar belief. If this individual is involved at DHL then I'd take a close look at every aspect of the operation (as far as you're able) and keep your fingers crossed.

ragspanner
14th Mar 2001, 15:49
Bernoulli, its not his 2nd chance he has done consultancy work on several occasions for Channex,where many of the crews refer to him by the sobriquet of Trefor "the helmet"-nuff said !

[This message has been edited by ragspanner (edited 14 March 2001).]

Georgeablelovehowindia
14th Mar 2001, 16:02
OK, let's get the facts straight. There are thirty four ex BA 757-236 535C aircraft involved. Eleven, including the first two are going to the current EAT operation in Brussels. The remaining twenty three are going to a brand new, totally separate, new UK airline with its own AOC, payscales, etc. It will be based at the new 25,000 sq. metre DHL facility at East Midlands Airport. Recruitment for this new UK airline is being handled by the Walton Churchill agency, as stated in page 65 of the current issue of Flight.
Aircraft deliveries to the UK airline commence in July 2001 (two) and then continue at the rate of one per month to May 2003.

Second Segment
14th Mar 2001, 18:20
Thank's for all the info on this topic. It will be interesting to discover what the salary scales are eventually going to be...and how many charter chaps are going to jump ship for the privilege of flying night parcels. I don't think the lure will be too great!

DouglasDigby
14th Mar 2001, 18:35
I guess there's not much air-rage with parcels! Might be tempted - after all, in the summer season, we fly many of our UK punters at night anyway!

HouchinCable
14th Mar 2001, 18:35
CaptSensible

It’s a great idea but remember those of us not on jets will do anything to get such a position. You may well already be in a jet seat, but I and many like me will do anything to get off props.


------------------
SixPin

Wilfred
14th Mar 2001, 19:41
Douglas D. Very true, and my lot work us chaps at the smaller bases to bu***ry in the winter too. Six on eight off would at least be some semblance of roster stability. And if you pitch the FO salary at roughly two thirds of the Capt package - say 55-60k - it all looks very appealing. Plus, if you were to get in early as an FO, it may mean a quick route to command.

Air freight is a booming market too, so career stability looks quite good.

An interesting thread; keep the info coming.

OC41
14th Mar 2001, 22:42
Wonder how DHL UK will work with CAP371 which is not exactly night friendly. Guess you can probably do 5 nights on the bounce with 1 Pax day, hence the 6 days on.
Can't see 8 off though unless enough Pilots are persuaded to join?

neil armstrong
14th Mar 2001, 23:36
6on/8off and 80k!!!!!!!!,i believe it when i see it.
Why would DHL pay the pilots of a new set up more and give them more days off,than they do any other pilot in there system.
All other opperators work on 8on/6off(if your lucky) and do this for 50+K plus flightpay (captains)and 35K plus flightpay(F/O)

Neil

Nightflyer
15th Mar 2001, 01:49
I hear some of the flights will be Africa.
You wouldn't get me back to do a Lagos nightstop for 100.000 a years.

neverdaylight
15th Mar 2001, 03:23
A 727 captain with DHL's Brussels based airline EAT makes about 45k sterling and works 8 ON/ 6 Off.In fact, day 1 starts at midnight and day 8 ends at 4 o'clock in the morning of your first off day. So you're really working 9 consecutive nights. And you may call it work: long dutytimes, multiple sectors at night, long turnovers, irregular sleep/work rythms, poor maintenance, hotels getting cheaper, no catering on board, simulator and training in your off days. During your 9 nights on duty, you will rarely ever see home. Your wife will think you're on long haul flights. I suppose the salary will be better with the new UK branch ,otherwise they won't find a dog to fly for them, but the working conditions...?
Welcome to the real world of overnight cargo operations.

Mutuku
15th Mar 2001, 03:49
Have to agree with OC41, CAP371 will be its downfall, if you are looking 8 on 6 off. You'll get the 8 on with pleasure but 6 off, in your dreams.

DouglasDigby
15th Mar 2001, 11:58
Doesn't CAP 371 say something to the effect of max of 3 nights in a row, then must have 24 hours off, and then only one more night in a total of 7 days (in other words, maximum of 4 nights in a one week period)?

Jonty
15th Mar 2001, 12:16
As I said it is a rumour that is being banded about our company (Charter) at the moment.

But lets think about it, they want to get their hands on some very experienced B757 captains. Air 2000 top whack is 80k, Jmc is 81k, Monarch 81k, and Airtours 70k. If they want to attract these pilots from their current company to fly night freight they are going to have to pay more, alot more.

Remember that they are setting up a new airline in the UK with its own AOC, they will need some very experienced B757 pilots, including IREs and TREs, and are going to have to pay for them.

Man Flex 32.5
15th Mar 2001, 13:59
Hey Douglas
If you read the section under regular early starts and late finishes, you can actually work 5 nights on then 2 off for a few weeks then you have to have 2 days (3 local nights off)
regards

MF 32.5

Georgeablelovehowindia
15th Mar 2001, 14:41
Man Flex 32.5 you are correct. It allows an eight hour FDP on five consecutive nights with discretion limited to one hour on each of two separate nights.
What would people think of say, one night on standby, five nights of flying, followed by six days off? That's a British day off as defined by two local nights encompassed by a period of thirty six hours.

Oceanic Airspace
15th Mar 2001, 16:10
And I think you'll find that the 8 days 'on' will include a Day-Off Down Route (DODR).

It's not all night flying, either, I hear that the 757 operation will be operating some "creative" long trips away from EMA.

I'm tempted!!!

Fly Better!
15th Mar 2001, 16:45
Could anyone let me know where I go to apply for this? I know it was in flight but I havent found a copy yet! They seem to dissapear faster these days with all the jobs in them.

I checked DHL website but with no luck and the Flight Int. website there is no mention in there either. IS there an address anyone could post for me on here?

Cheers

------------------
PULL UP! PULL U........

DouglasDigby
15th Mar 2001, 16:52
E-mail CV to Stephen Yates
[email protected]
BUT you must quote the appropriate reference number...
Training captains (B757 TRE) TC222
Line Captains LC223 (min 4000 hrs TT to include 1000 hrs jet transport greater than 40 tonnes)
First Officers F0224 (1500 hrs TT, to include either 500 jet transport, or, 1000 hrs turbine)
Hope that this is of some help!

Thrush
15th Mar 2001, 17:57
Fly Better,

Go onto Flight International's web site and look in the jobs section.

____________________________________________

Good judgement comes from experience. Unfortunately, the experience usually comes as a result of bad judgement.(!)

OC41
15th Mar 2001, 23:41
Douglas D / Man Flex / Georgeable

There is a para in CAP371 that allows 5 consecutive early reports but not nights ( with night defined as 0200-0459LT )
I do however understand there is a Freighter variation (Channex?) that allows 5 nights, with restrictions much like the early rules.
It is unlikely that you would get a patern that includes 8 days. You'd need a day off somewhere so poss 4 nights, rest day 5, day off day 6 then single night. That said any CAA variation would probably insist on run of flights + days off.
The way CAP371 works now is that you can come up with a variation as long as its agreed by the Pilot workforce, and undoubtedly you could consider a 5-6 night package followed by loads of days off to compenstate.
If salary was high, and with a loads of days off then it might be tempting to some of the forementioned Nigels

Bangor
16th Mar 2001, 00:33
EI-EI-O and Zombie

as a farmer a don't find your comments very amusing. God forbid aviation was going through recession at the moment and the wellie was on the other foot.

thegypsy
16th Mar 2001, 06:44
I cannot see any uk Charter Captain leaving to join DHL at EMA unless they live on the doorstep and get paid huge sums of money as well which is not going to happen! Why would the rumoured package be worth 35000 more gross than the boys in Brussels are getting? Especially as tax in UK is much lower in UK which is probably why they are basing in UK rather in Brussels in the first place.No doubt all the rotations will go through Brussels.

DouglasDigby
16th Mar 2001, 13:48
From Walton Churchill: "...the initial interviews will take place within the next 3 to 4 weeks......"

The Prisoner
16th Mar 2001, 14:01
If the salary is going to be above industry average (UK pay scales this is), then why not include as much it in the advert? Lets face it, easyJet are quite blatant about their joining bonus. Money talks, night freight sucks.

I think that the pay will be dependant on the amount of interest in the positions. F/Os will not be a problem, but maybe a few expatriate skippers from RBA and the like might wanna return home.Its amazing who turns up out of the woodwork when direct commands are involved.

What chances for experienced F/Os (ie 5000+ jet) getting direct commands?

PPRuNe Towers
16th Mar 2001, 15:23
As the Prisoner infers, the lack of pay information in the ad is a form of bait to see the level of interest and experience from applicants. Expectations are however very high and the drop out rate once salaries are revealed will give the company a very clear indication of whether they've pitched it wrong.

Although a UK AOC means that initially CAP 371 will have to be followed charter pilots are very aware that the definition of a day off changes totally in the Sub Part Q Jar Ops proposals.

As no local nights are included at all in the proposal, just a set number of hours off, experienced pilots will be very cagey about accepting anything other than a very attractive contract with extremely strong provisions to ensure a good quality of life no matter what FTL's are in place.

Otherwise why move???

------------------
Regards from the Towers
[email protected]

Fly Better!
16th Mar 2001, 15:32
Thanks for the info guys.
I did go to Flight Int. website but couldnt find it http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif I really should get my eyes tested :)

2XL
16th Mar 2001, 15:59
DouglasDigby how much notification will the recruiters plan on giving successful applicants prior to interview?

Has anyone any more news regarding salaries and conditions?

What is the likely format of interviews etc?, can people expect a sim ride as well?

mutt
16th Mar 2001, 16:12
Fly Better,

Its listed under Walton Churchill and the title Line Captains.

DHL Worldwide Express is the world-s largest International cross border Air Express business operating in some 227 countries with major interchange hubs situated throughout Europe and Africa; the most modern being the 25,000sq metre facility at East Midlands Airport which became operational in April 2000.
To supplement these developments DHL has ordered 34 x B757/236 Special Freighters from Boeing Airplane Services and is developing a new UK Airline based at EMA to operate 23 of these aircraft which will be delivered between July 2001 and May 2003.
This new operation, therefore, presents an exciting and unique opportunity for professionally minded individuals to join our flight crew team in a new international airline that is owned by a major global corporation, where everyone is dedicated to meeting the exacting requirements of our substantial world-wide : custome base.
Applications are invited for the following positions:
LINE CAPTAINS
* B757 TYPE RATED:
* NON-TYPE RATED: Minimum of 4000 hours totaI flying time to include 1000 hours on jet sport with an operating mass of greater than 40,000 kgs.
NB: All pilot candidates must hold either a UK CAA or JAA licence and have the right to work in the UK. Preference will be given to B757 type rated pilots although type convertion training will be available to suitable candidates utilising the services of British Airways Flight Training.
An excellent remuneration package is on offer for all positions, which include basic salary, hourly flight allowances, company pension scheme and loss of licence insurance cover for flying personnel.

(I've left out the contact details in an attempt to avoid advertising and therefore avoid the wrath of Pprune Towers.)

Good Luck.

Mutt.

DouglasDigby
16th Mar 2001, 16:14
2XL - Notification time-scale unknown at present. Industry "norm" seems to be interview first (including any psycho-babble tests!) to select a short-list for Sim check somewhere at a later stage. I'll post any up-dates though!

Cmdr Data
17th Mar 2001, 00:18
Watch out for the mass exodus from Airtours, in due course, of 75/76 drivers.

thegypsy
17th Mar 2001, 07:35
Would Fly Better like us to fill up the application form and hold his hand at the interview?? Get a grip on yourself man!!

vnavspeed
17th Mar 2001, 10:23
Looks like there is a lot of interest in the DHL 757 Commands at Britannia. Why, it appears the salary package at BY is no longer market (charter)leading and time to command is still running at about 10 years.

The next 4 weeks are going to be very, very interesting. Watch this space!

OC41
17th Mar 2001, 12:49
Pprune Towers

Jar Ops Sub part Q is still in mayhem with a
proposed start date of May 2001.
The EU will formally lay a proposal on the table by July but who knows what will be in that proposal as both Airlines and Unions
cannot agree. Clearly it is in the interest of UK operators to have sub part Q because
its a bit more in their favour, but the Spanish,Germans etc are not interested. The Italians dont even turn up at meetings...
Its also been suggested that if no agreement can be reached then the CAA might update CAP371.
DHL UK will need to recognise that days off be it CAP371 or Sub Part Q are a critical part of any package

lets go nads
17th Mar 2001, 18:28
Well here it is from an EX Britannia training captain to a present training captain. This is the pay gos!!

Captain starts 60k
Flying allowance 10-15k/year
1st year increment 5k
2nd year increment 5k
PHI,LOL,BUPA medical cover,pension.
roster is 4 on 5 days off
1st day on ex EMA 1800 gmt four nights hopping around Europe , four star hotels.Last night return to EMA approx 2am then 5 days off.

So after 2 years can expect to be on 70k plus 10-15k in flight allowances not too bad!!Plus all the goodies.

F/os 35k start plus same as captain in allowances plus all the goodies!!
After 1st year 5k increment but that's it!!

Still ok with quick prospect to command for the 1st year or two!! How does that grab you all??

Second Segment
18th Mar 2001, 04:50
I cannot believe that they will work 4 on 5 off. It does stretch the bounds of credibility somewhat. Perhaps 4 on 3 or 4 off, otherwise they will need LOADS of crews!

HouchinCable
18th Mar 2001, 16:43
Let's hope so! :)

------------------
SixPin

[This message has been edited by HouchinCable (edited 18 March 2001).]

[This message has been edited by HouchinCable (edited 18 March 2001).]

Box_Mover
18th Mar 2001, 17:38
Rogaine Addict is spreading a rumor on the Atlas thread, that DHL and Atlas are talking about an acquisition or merger….Said he got it from the DHL hotline….

Does anyone have any info to verify this?

Agaricus bisporus
18th Mar 2001, 21:29
Pity they didnt proof read the ad before they filed it though.

Any one know if the "1000hrs jet sport" requirement is P1 (as you might expect)because as written it says 4000hrs TT to include 1000 hrs on any med jet in the RHS which would be nice but seems unlikely?

thegypsy
19th Mar 2001, 15:07
CANNOT SEE salary mentioned by ex BRIT causing lots of people to leave the 757 CHARTER airlines exceptFO"s HOPING FOR QUICK COMMAND and why should allowances be as quoted which are 4 times what EAT get in BRUSSELS? ALL OF US B757 rated pilots should insist on a golden hello and at least 3 years increments. WHAT WILL IT COST THEM financially and timewise to train through BA? Don"t lets sell ourselves short!!!

knows
19th Mar 2001, 15:18
I agree, no one is going to give up a charter command for this package.

tin tin
19th Mar 2001, 20:03
For the average charter Capt. to have a basic salary of around 65k you would have to be on pay piont (year) 7 with Air 2000, year 8 with Airtours,year 8 with Britannia, year 7 with jmc and year 7 with Monarch, and they are only looking at less than 5k a year in flight pay! People may well leave a charter outfit for DHL's 65k + 15-20k flight pay, (if this is the actual pay deal.)

FO Nigetrussoxide
19th Mar 2001, 21:01
Sorry - but I think "the gypsy" and "Knows" may be proved right on this one.
Certainly your figures are out of date. For example a JMC year 1 Captain is close to 60K he then has up to 20 years of increments at over 1000 per year to look forward to. Add to that one totally free holiday, a 75% discount (if he's completed 4 years) on another brochure holiday ( a good benefit if you chose an expensive holiday from the select brochure), A decent final salary pension, LOL etc. Frankly, like others, I'm delighted to see the market hotting up. (Easyjet's sign on bonus for trainers is easily the best "remuneration" news pilots have had for years). I'm just saying that DHL aren't really going to attract many experienced guys with this unimpressive package. What do others think?




[This message has been edited by FO Nigetrussoxide (edited 19 March 2001).]

tin tin
20th Mar 2001, 01:34
jmc capt. salary scale as published last week
year1 58344
year2 59394
year3 60463
year4 61551
year5 62660
year6 63787
year7 64935
year8 66104
etc etc etc
The totaly free holiday is only avail to short haul destinations, and then only to a limited number of crap destinations that you would never pay full fair to go to. People are about to walk, (there will be more than just DHL coming over the horizon soon)

Willie Eckerslike
20th Mar 2001, 12:53
With the planned closure of the bmi fokker base at EMA I would expect there to be a lot of interest from the crews not senior enough to get onto the A330. Perhaps they will be able to retain there country estates & not move to that bedsit in Hounslow

countrybusdriver
20th Mar 2001, 13:03
Sir Michael is going to have to dig dip to keep some of his bmi pilots I thinks!!!

72jetjok
20th Mar 2001, 13:37
Received standard format reply from Walton Churchill today...'initial interviews will take place within the next 3-4 weeks...
If you do not hear from us further in the near future, etc., etc.'

Now a matter of sitting and waiting to see if anything happens - obviously depends how many rated people apply. From a completely selfish viewpoint the less the better since l'm unfortunately not rated (story of my life). Anyway if anyone's remotely interested l've applied for D/E and l have 1200 P1 on 727 plus 15 years night freight; doesn't take much working out who l fly for!

I'm very happy with my present company (love the 72'), but an opportunity like this has to be a 'once in a lifetime'. Anyway best of luck to one and all.

aileron
20th Mar 2001, 14:39
Interesting times. Well Im a 757 Captain for a good UK charter airline. I cant see many Captains from this company jumping ship. (Merely my opinion) I havent seen anything on this thread that hasnt even remotely stirred any interest in dusting off the CV. But, if I was a Senior FO going through a tough time... well Id have to think about it.
Dont be hasty chaps, its not in your interest. It appears that they will be hiring over the next year atleast. Let the dust settle and get it from the horses mouth.
=============================================

...wife, kids, house, stable job and no I wont be applying

=============================================

...the author reserves the right to change his mind subject to any of the above formentioned circumstances changing

HEAVYWHALE
20th Mar 2001, 20:08
Settle down fellas!!!!

Haven't you guys herd that Atlas is looking to buy DHL. This will all be a moot point, when they do. So, just relax and see what kind of a contract the Atlas guys get and the rest will wash out.

PaulDeGearup
20th Mar 2001, 20:35
Word I had from contact in bmi at EMA was that folks were waiting to see what happens with DHL but that the ad had created a general CV flurry to other airlines eg Virgin.

Georgeablelovehowindia
21st Mar 2001, 01:00
Hogg, don't know where Lagos/Accra crept in to the equasion. Initial destinations envisaged are Copenhagen, Cologne, Bergamo, Metz and Vitoria i.e. the well-loved present DHL hubs.

thegypsy
21st Mar 2001, 08:02
EAT which is DHL already operate 757 to West Africa. There will not be a mass exodus of 757 Captains from UK charter Airlines. If you do not live near EMA you will spend a life in a bedsit ,drive miles home after work. If you sell up and move to EMA moving costs are horrendous these days thanks to New Labour increasing stamp duty. If any of you 757 Capts based at LGW leave to go can I have your job please.!! I don"t want to spend my life in bedsit and have to drive all day to get home so I hope there is mass exodus from you charter pilots and if there is the pay will have to go up at your old company and you will then wished you stayed!!

RampTramp
21st Mar 2001, 14:48
Forget LOS/ACC, the converted aircraft will not have the range/payload for the African sectors. Those routes will remain with EAT and the 2 B757PF that they have. The B757SFs will stay in Europe to replace the 72s.

------------------
I'm not old, I was just born too early

Yeehah
22nd Mar 2001, 16:10
Have to agree with aileron on this. All 757 Captains in my company are already on well over 60k+. Junior F/O's may go for an early command as there is plenty of dissension towards the bottom of the seniority list and many bonds run out this year. However for the rest, nope, nothing to get excited about yet.

------------------

Georgeablelovehowindia
24th Mar 2001, 05:41
1. Let's view pilot recruitment in a non LGW based 757 pilot concept.
2. Let's view this in a JAA (Europe Wide) concept.
3. Which airline, the largest UK operator of 757s, the very 34 involved, retires its pilots at age 55?
Lateral thinking, ladies and gentlemen, THINK ON.

DouglasDigby
24th Mar 2001, 12:51
Heaven help us!! Nigel types flying freight??

HouchinCable
24th Mar 2001, 16:18
Nigel’s! The worst possible nightmare!

May the money be obscene and positions be a-plenty!


------------------
SixPin

Second Segment
25th Mar 2001, 22:46
Are there really 200+ retired Nigels still hanging around? I would have thought that they would have all departed for sunnier climes...

Real World
25th Mar 2001, 23:09
Does anyone know any other details of management team. TJ seems to be top man but what about others. Bill MOore (ex Britannia) Director of Flight Ops ? Alex Humphreys, Technical Director ?

Anyone any firm details ?

squeaker
26th Mar 2001, 00:01
"Bungalow" Bill, yes.

Georgeablelovehowindia
26th Mar 2001, 02:15
Ullo, ullo. Do I detect an "injured party," still smarting from our William's famous one-sided interviews with no tea and biccies, then?

Skunkworks
26th Mar 2001, 02:53
Anyone have a fax number for this Yates-fella?

Busta
26th Mar 2001, 03:32
squeaker

'Bungers' is a good bloke, a hard man, but fair.

be careful out there

Georgeablelovehowindia
26th Mar 2001, 04:04
Busta, agreed. Unfortunately some people don't like listening to the truth, and our William sure can tell it how it is. Yup.

f/spninx
26th Mar 2001, 22:22
Anybody got a call for interviews yet?

thegypsy
27th Mar 2001, 01:06
If Bill Moore is the same as the once B737 Fleet Captain of Britannia then God help this venture. All potential candidates be warned.

Whossat Forrus
27th Mar 2001, 02:22
Come on then Gyppo, spill the beans. If it's just that you can't cope working with him let us know why. If you think no-one can work with him then come up with some evidence.

thegypsy
27th Mar 2001, 03:44
Ask anyone at Britannia and I guarantee at least 95% will agree!!

mcrit
27th Mar 2001, 11:49
Wise words Gyppo!!!

stanley
29th Mar 2001, 00:11
first bo.757 due in bru 28th march, oo reg till british A.O.C.

Whossat Forrus
30th Mar 2001, 00:58
Has anyone out there heard the word interview yet. I sent an application in asap and got the standard letter but nothing since. Reckon it's a better than average oppotunity to get in with a company at an early stage and spend the years up near the top of the pile!!!!

thegypsy
30th Mar 2001, 08:37
WwhossatFORRUS AND cowpat BM has a chip on his shoulder bigger than any OZ from the 89 dispute if you can imagine such a possibility!! He came intoAviation the so called self improver route which seems by some to imply something that does not smell very pleasant!! He does not like ex military types such as me .I personally have never subscribed to any discrimination against self improvers and judge people by how they perform and behave,and there are good and bad from whatever background you come from. BM was infamous for the TTL {taxi to Luton!!} Anything else I might add could be considered libel!!

noax2grind
30th Mar 2001, 14:03
I`m still on PPRune line training so not a lot of experience here but this thread shows some of the features which are less than appealing about the forums!
I applied for the job(not type rated but lots of jet command time) I wonder how many of the people here are type rated and have flooded the recruitment situation with no intention of leaving their present positions!
Well done Whossat for a positve attitude!!

upwiththebirds
30th Mar 2001, 22:51
Noax2grind has a point. If you don't want the job, then don't apply. Word is however, numbers required only just make double figures and if you're not type rated then don't give up your day job.

noax2grind
31st Mar 2001, 12:06
Well thats made my day!!!!!

Majorbyte
31st Mar 2001, 13:03
upwiththebirds, you say that the word is 'pilot requirments only just make double figures', so that's about 10 pilots required then, that's barely 1 fully crewed aircraft, as I thought upwards of 23 B757 were being based at EMA, or am I missing something, could you please elaborate on your information.

Thanks.

Capt Bankangle
31st Mar 2001, 13:11
Upwithbirds!

How do you crew 23 757s with just "double figures"?

Like Noaxetogrind I have a lot of heavy jet command time but not type rated genuinely looking for a position.

Most of my time has been in cargo flying and
from the period of pax flying I did and I cant really see why anyone would give that up for a DHL type job UNLESS they had pressing location or personal reasons.

My reason is no day job to give up at moment!

Very keen to here first news on any interview dates standard Steve Yates letter only so far

upwiththebirds
1st Apr 2001, 21:42
Sorry . Didn't make that very clear did I! I should have said "initially". Don't expect all the aircraft will turn up at once so they'll obviously need a steady supply. Didn't mean to be over gloomy either. I was disappointed too although I'm lucky enough to have a fairly good job , I fancied the change in lifestyle, but I'm told that numerous type rated Kestrels have gone for it. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to be completely wrong!

2XL
2nd Apr 2001, 02:35
Rather strange really that DHL would organize such a fancy ad in Flight () and then close up on further information.

Not a soul appears to know what the final package will be - do you ?

Whossat Forrus
4th Apr 2001, 00:40
The package isn't going to be the heartache, time serve invariably gives some return. The most important thing is to have guys 'n' gals around who have the vision and motivation to get this operation off the ground and make the future existence a realistic prospect. No-one ever started out with a blank sheet and ended up near the top without some serious effort put in by all concerned. If the new boss is a hard guy then so much the better, he just needs the type of people who can tell him straight and still get the job done while he jumps on 'em.

Bernoulli
4th Apr 2001, 01:14
Yep..loadsa kestrels have applied. Speaks volumes about the terms and conditions within the touring company not to mention the outlook for improvement. For example the duty allowance rate has just gone from 2.11 to 2.18 which is an increase of marginally over 3%. Pathetic.

Capt Bankangle
4th Apr 2001, 01:23
Telephoned agency today and they advised that acting on clients instructions initial interviews and recruiting would be for B757 type rated crew only.Type training will be "much later"

Anyone heard differing info?

upfront
4th Apr 2001, 06:32
I've just heard down the line that the Operations Manager from Air Contractors has moved to EMA to set up the operations department.

Anyone heard the same? and if so what his story?

RampTramp
4th Apr 2001, 18:55
Upfront,

Sorry mate, duff gen. The ex Operations Manger of Air Contractors has moved back to EMA but has left the airline business. He will NOT be taking a job with DHL UK.

------------------
I'm not old, I was just born too early

upfront
5th Apr 2001, 03:31
R U sure Alan? http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif

RampTramp
5th Apr 2001, 13:58
Upfront,

I'm not Alan but I am sure.

------------------
I'm not old, I was just born too early

Wet Power
5th Apr 2001, 15:22
Just received the remuneration package from recruiting agency:

Line Captains (Non Type Rated) 55K

F/O (Non Type Rated) 35K

Line Captain (Type Rated) 60K
61K (Year 2)

F/0 (Type Rated) 40K
41K (Year 2)

Type rated get 1.75% increment years 3-10

Hourly rate - 2.15

Leave - 6 weeks

Rostering - either 5 on/3 off or 6 on/4 off

Pension - to be finalised (bet it is money purchase!)

Loss of licence - Min 2 times salary

PMI - included

Who do you think they will get - beggers or choosers?

COWPAT
5th Apr 2001, 16:19
Well, Iwas seriously interested butI,m afraid that I will not persue my application any further if that really is the package.

In the hope that the DHL management read PPRUNE you will need to start your Captains salary above 70k + decent package before I will bring my 8000hours of 757 experience anywhere near you.

72jetjok
5th Apr 2001, 16:44
Couldn't agree with you more - I'm not even type rated but with a 'package' like that (if correct) it doesn't seem worth the bother.

I'd love the 75' on the licence before retirement but l'd also like to stay level financially. This deal doesn't cut the ice!!

Can't see any experienced 757 people even thinking about a deal like this unless it's just for the love of the night flying!

FastJetJock
5th Apr 2001, 17:30
Wet Power, if correct they won't get many choosers. It seems a long way from the 120K being bandied about earlier in this thread. I for one will not be applying!

Capt Bankangle
5th Apr 2001, 18:06
DHL = Desperate Hungry Losers?

B727
5th Apr 2001, 18:18
Going back to the Air Contractors Ops Manager, he was a good bloke. The new outfit should have snapped him up rather than lose him from aviation.

rollercoaster
5th Apr 2001, 19:04
This dosent seem right some how. DHL would need to pay a premium in order to atract experienced and type rated Pilots. Management know this. So why on earth would they waste money (advertising) and resources (interviewing) with a package like this ???

Nah, cant be right.

Wet Power
5th Apr 2001, 19:39
Rollercoaster

This is the package that was passed on to me by Selma Cruickshank at Walton Churchill - it is genuine.

Surprised me as well - basically I think DHL are going to have a hell of a job, if not an expensive one manning twenty-odd 757s over the next couple of years at these rates.

My feeling is that they have had a lot of initial interest so they are feeling a bit bullish about the market and that is reflected in the salary and conditions. Needless to say, I think they have got it wrong.

Shame - in the US nightfreight is one of the best paid jobs.

noax2grind
5th Apr 2001, 22:28
Wet Power,
Your probably right, they were impressed with the response. As I said some time ago, all the applications from those type rated people who are basically happy with their present job, where her in doors is settled! they weren`t really interested in the job unless it was paying silly money.
Alright times are better now than when there was not a job to be seen, but the real world is the real world.
I wonder how many people offered interviews will actually go.
"Business is business and love is bull****".

Bernoulli
6th Apr 2001, 00:44
Wet Power, if you're right about those conditions it's a complete non-starter, at least for type rated people.

vrefplus5
6th Apr 2001, 01:03
Blank sheet start-up requires experienced, typed aircrew initially. Period ! That caliber of professional will scoff at 60K. Beggars 1, Choosers 0. IMHO.

Mutuku
6th Apr 2001, 03:18
The ad mentioned experience on aircraft above 40000kg which I believe includes the BAe146, perhaps they are being realistic and pulling on the wealth of experience from the lesser paid airlines. After all, its just another plane, isn't it? I'm sure they'll get the handfull of type rated pilots they'll need to start the operation.

COWPAT
6th Apr 2001, 04:12
They may get a few type rated people who can't get a job anywhere else but if they want the operation run properly (efficiently = min cost) then they are going to have to front up a decent salary.

Learn the lesson of the Orange airline where they saved 4 million a year in training costs by spending 1 million a year on a payrise to improve retention.

Pay Peanuts, get Monkeys .... and monkeys without any loyalty at that!

thegypsy
6th Apr 2001, 07:44
Did I NOT TELL ALL YOU DREAMERS OUT there that the 80 grand +20 GRAND aLLOWANCES was all a figment of someones imagination!! I know this is a rumour network but that really was never on the cards.
If all of us B757 rated pilots stick together then they will not get what they want without paying more!!I would want another 20Grand just to work with BM

COWPAT
6th Apr 2001, 08:20
Gypo does actually have a point.

If enough of us say no to 60k then the laws of supply and demand will force a better offer.

Whats the feeling on this? suppose we all send an EMail to Walton Churhill at

[email protected] stating that if the rumoured package is accurate we are no longer interested. If you wish to ensure that we all play the game fairly then EMail your comments to me (address in profile)and I will forward them (with my own message also attached) to Walton Churchill and send copies of same to you all.

How about it chaps, lets get off to a decent start.

RGDS

COWPAT

THINALBERT
6th Apr 2001, 08:46
COWPAT for union rep.

EMail on its way. Thanks for getting us organised.

2XL
6th Apr 2001, 10:06
thegypsy you sure have an axe to grind with BM. Thats fine but remember no one is forcing you to apply or work with him, your choice. This aside, I have taken note of what you have said with interest so thanks.

The Prisoner
6th Apr 2001, 11:49
To reiterate, if the package was ever going to be anything to shout about, then why keep it such a secret? Were experienced f/o's expected to fill the LHS? I'm not 757, nor working in the UK, but I'd hold out on this one. Its always possible that the eastern european pilot market may be what the company are aiming at.No sure about immigration, though.

thegypsy
6th Apr 2001, 14:11
I am in fact not interested in this job with or without BM as I have no desire to return to BBB Bomber Blairs Britain!!

However if enough B757 rated Pilots apply who are not really interested and then turn down invitations to go for an interview then it might just help to push up the Anti!!??

thegypsy
6th Apr 2001, 14:17
Or for that matter BBB Bearded Branson"s Britain!!

2XL
6th Apr 2001, 15:00
BBB, Bald Bearded Bludgers ?

GEENY
6th Apr 2001, 16:54
757/767 rated and exp Capt says:NOT NEARLY ENOUGH!

flying headbutt
6th Apr 2001, 17:35
At present most of the aircraft flying for DHL out of EMA & BRU are A300-B4's & 727's. These are operated three crew- 2 pilots & a flight engineer so the average wages for one crew might be about 130k sterling per annum(before tax and not taking into account flight pay). Three or four sector nights are pretty normal except on the 757 the workload will be now be shared between 2 people. It seems DHL are onto a winner here as with the wages they're offering on the 757 they've managed to seriously reduce their wage bill per aircraft per annum. Not very well put but I hope you see where I'm coming from. They could easily afford to offer a much better package and I for one hope they will be forced to as it might have a knock on effect for the rest of us.

Ticker
6th Apr 2001, 18:18
There is one group of 757 rated people, to whom the package seems quite good deal as a means of topping up their pensions. That is the steady stream of retirees from BAL in the next few years.

It seems flying beyond 60 is not considered a problem by the interviewers, so 60k on top of your 45-55k pension with BAL plus the option to stop when you get p....d off might be OK.

I must add that it is not for me as I hate night flying.

OC41
6th Apr 2001, 23:15
Bernoulli

Thats a shame now because all the Kestrals will have to go back and be happy on their 2.18 an hour. Mind you if it was that bad surely you'd go to DHL?

Grass is green springs to mind.

Operational Crewing 41

skid
7th Apr 2001, 00:11
its not just the pay that is making the kestrals fly. Poor rostering,benefits,concessions,(piss poor)pension are the little rubs that get you down. That said 60k will certainly make a few birds stay in the nest, i think!

Shanwick Shanwick
7th Apr 2001, 03:06
Called Walton Churchill this afternoon. Package confirmed. Application duly withdrawn!

------------------
hhhiiisssssccrrrraaaacckkkllesssshhhhhh

getalife
7th Apr 2001, 11:30
Sent an e-mail to Walton Churchill some time ago. They did not bother to reply. But then with that package and my experience on the 757 I think they must have known that there is no way they could get me.

COWPAT
7th Apr 2001, 17:53
So, now we know the deal is anybody still interested?

upwiththebirds
8th Apr 2001, 02:52
Yes they'll still get people but maybe they'll need to spend a few bob on type ratings. After all its just another Boeing ( no rocket science required ! ). What amuses me is the conciet . Quote: "there is no way they could get me". And you guys who think you can renegotiate the package before you've even joined .....the arrogance is laughable.

ATOM ANT
8th Apr 2001, 03:32
DHL looking for experienced B757 first officer's eh? B757, B767 current, genuinely interested but nothing other than the standard 3-4 week thanks or no thanks letter, with the 4 week deadline approaching. Heard second hand interviewing last week, Is this true? Anyone with futher details? Should I bother?

thegypsy
8th Apr 2001, 08:48
COWPAT Why were you remotely interested in this job in the first place with your hour on type in command I assume?? This job may appeal to those who wish to come back to UK, a few ex Nigels on their 4th marriage! Cannot see anyone from within UK with a Charter Operator moving. Lifestyle will not be any better thats for sure!! No Slot problems that is for sure!!

Majorbyte
8th Apr 2001, 14:18
Cowpat,
I just had to respond to your comment of 'pay peanuts get monkeys', your arrogance is beyond belief I have to say, I have applied to DHL and do not regard myself as a monkey, do DHL a favour and look elsewhere.

COWPAT
8th Apr 2001, 14:21
Read the caveat in brackets mate, but then I suppose you only read what supports your preconceived ideas. I stand by my statement, complete with caveat IF applicable.

Wet Power
8th Apr 2001, 21:11
For info

DHL were interviewing last week and this week with sim slots pencilled in for 21/22 Apr with BA.

I know of a number of cancelled interviews so there maybe some last minute slots for those that are interested

upwiththebirds
8th Apr 2001, 22:53
Fair enough Cowpat. Sadly, as I'm not rated on the 757 I don't think I'm the kind of primate they want! Now where did I leave that Banana.......?

Rogaine addict
8th Apr 2001, 23:34
I'm led to believe that at least some of these 75s are going to be sent to DHL Airways as replacements for 72s. The new CEO (O'Gorman) has cancelled the next two newhire classes for the 3 seaters because we are "fat" on pilots. There are also rumors of A330s. In the past there have been lots of rumors including buying Airborne (this one surfaces regularly) buying Emery, being bought by Atlas to satisfy DOT ownership requirements, obviously none of which has materialized. O'Gorman has vowed to grow the airline and keep employees better informed as they have been pretty much in the dark previously. I bet many of you have heard that story before.

thegypsy
9th Apr 2001, 09:08
COWPAT if you want to return to UK then join DHL as you do not have stay as you are type rated. This salary is as good as you will get anywhere in UK or Europe, that is a fact so you had better get used to that or stay in your well paid?? job overseas.

COWPAT
9th Apr 2001, 12:39
Thanks for that gypo,

If I return to the UK it certainly wont be for the money, or the weather. Nonetheless there is a bottom line and 60k is well below it.
So yes I will be staying in my well paid expat tax free job thank you very much.

COWPAT

[This message has been edited by COWPAT (edited 09 April 2001).]

Altostratus
11th Apr 2001, 00:25
Is there not a danger that DHL could justify requesting work permits for non - EU pilots, if the positions are not filled in the fullness of time?

Georgeablelovehowindia
11th Apr 2001, 01:58
Altostratus: No, I really don't think so.
thegypsy : That wouldn't be Ivor, by any chance, would it?

Bernoulli
11th Apr 2001, 16:38
OC41, most Kestrels I speak to are happy with the Company (self included) and have no desire to leave. However there's only so long you can sit and watch your pay and conditions being steadily eroded. Anecdotally, Britannia are having to put over 30% of salary into their pension fund in order to meet their obligations to the Final Salary pension scheme. Now, that figure may be adrift by a percentage point or two but even if it is, it still makes the Kestrel scheme look very poor indeed.

Other sectors of the transport industry have managed to improve their renumeration above inflation and the grudging awards we have seen recently in the Touring Company have ensured that in relative terms we have seen our position eroded.

I think a good way to sum up the Touring Company is 'good people, good atmosphere, good fun but relatively poor renumeration'. And lets not forget, the bottom line is the bottom line.

thegypsy
12th Apr 2001, 09:22
George.... No it is not Ivor and if it was it would still not be!!! I hear tha Air Atlanta are hiring non EU Pilots on B767 on contract to Sabre/Excel so I guess this Government will let it happen to DHL as well

thegypsy
12th Apr 2001, 09:27
Talking of pension schemes. Money purchase schemes in this low interest environment and with interest now taxed within the schemes wont provide much of a pension which is why so many companys are going down that route as it is far far cheaper than a final salary scheme.

Dont worry
15th Apr 2001, 21:40
Hi, guys !

Is there still some hiring going on for DHL or did they already filled up all the Positions needed for the Start up ?
Would appreciate any response.

Nightflyer
16th Apr 2001, 22:57
Could someone let me know if they are taking type-rated over 60 captains. By the way it is not for me for those who know my non-de-plume.

VICCYTEN
17th Apr 2001, 13:04
Just off the 'phone to Walton Churchill re arranging an interview.

1) First phase of interviews scheduled up to end of MAY. Subsequent recruitment & interviews at dates to be arranged.

2) Package. Walton Churchill are now forbidden to disclose the package and are instructed to tell us that it will only be discussed at interview.

If the package was good, then it would obviously be used as an enticement to join. Therefore, whatever the package is, its not good. So not good in fact that DHL are frightened to disclose it prior to interview.
I for one am not going to waste time trouble and money attending an interview with a company that is afraid to disclose the package. Any thoughts ?

ps. See you at the Blue Fox interviews later this year.

[This message has been edited by VICCYTEN (edited 17 April 2001).]

COWPAT
17th Apr 2001, 15:58
I smell a rat here somewhere.

Possibly get you to interview then do the hard sell on you. Unless or until I receive details of the package from DHL or Walton Churchill, I will not be attending an interview.

Hope I,m wrong but I can't help but be reminded of a pilot recruitment seminar I went to many moons ago when the average jet F/Os salary was about 22000GBP pa. The Cathay guy stood up and stated that the Cathay F/O starting salary was 40000GBP pa, then sat down again.

The Point?

If DHL were proud of what they were offering they would advertise it.

Majorbyte
17th Apr 2001, 19:36
Well, I don't know about you guys, but I'll be more than happy to go to their interview, mind you, I've got 2000 hours on the B757 and still haven't had the 'call' so I guess there must be plenty of rated people out there.

PS: If any one from DHL reads this, I'm available immediately for an interview, just email me!

VICCYTEN
17th Apr 2001, 19:57
I,ve got 6000 hours 767/757, mostly LHS and 1000 of them in training. I only heard from them last thursday.

I think an awful lot of guys are expressing an interest but the more we know, the less we like.
Best of luck anyway.

thegypsy
18th Apr 2001, 21:11
I am absolutely amazed at the amount of excitement this DHL job is causing!! A job probably 4 sectors ,night flights only ,hanging around after each landing whilst cargo is offloaded in some cold bleak North European airport, based in EMA where probably very few applicants live anywhere near!! I cannot believe any B757 UK charter Captain is interested in this??
This is for those who are desparate and I mean really desparate who wish to return to Bomber Blairs Britain for one reason or another for a direct command where opportunities for such are becoming more difficult. Just dont look at this through rose tinted glasses.
I have seen the DHL crew room in Brussels at 3am and it is not a pretty site!!

thegypsy
18th Apr 2001, 21:48
pretty sight!!

Whossat Forrus
19th Apr 2001, 00:03
Gyppo,
I am intrigued by your vociferous responses on this thread. Are you a "legend in your own mind- would've made it if it hadn't been for someone who knew what they were talking about" type who is smarting after realising everyone else could see a light or did you simply get to see the DHL crewroom at 0300 (pilot speak for your 3am) via a telephoto lens from your favourite spot on the perimeter fence. Those of us who genuinely seek to fly with a new operation are optimists by nature, not desperate (it is spelt 'er' for your future reference) and can accept that less than top end pay packets will be the norm' to begin with. Once an operation proves itself in terms of sustainable profit margins and has the right balance of experienced crew bringing along the younger pilots in a way that induces long term commitment to the company, then shall the just rewards of reasonable pay and a reliable future employment prospects become the attraction of that company. There is no point getting in a shin kicking contest with a newly appointed management who are trying to generate the very conditions I have described. Life isn't fair, get used to it.

aviator57
19th Apr 2001, 00:28
Just what the hell is going on ? Just who is going to work for DHL?

THINALBERT
19th Apr 2001, 00:47
Not me

knows
19th Apr 2001, 00:56
Whossat Forrus - I'm afraid you may be considered naive if you expect conditions to imrove once you are "underway!".

I'm afraid Gypsy's last post sums it up - the package will fail to attract any of the current UK charter pilots. I 'd love to see DHL struggle to recruit.

COWPAT
19th Apr 2001, 00:57
Absolutely old boy.

gypo I,m afraid has it spot on. I too hope that DHL get what they deserve.

The old saying about peanuts and monkeys (with a few exceptions of course) springs to mind again.

[This message has been edited by COWPAT (edited 18 April 2001).]

thegypsy
19th Apr 2001, 00:59
WHO??? Thanks for the spelling lesson and 3am was for pedantic prats like you to pick up on. The rest of your diatribe sounds like the talk of a somewhaaaaaaat naive person. STILL IF THIS SUITS YOU THEN GO FOR IT!!
You have obviously not been in aviation very long if you think that in due course your loyalty will be recognised through your salary cheque or in any other way!!
If you ever get to see the DHL CREW ROOM AT 3am or 0300 if you cannot understand, then perhaps you will remember this !!
As I recall at 0300 the crew were all just in the middle of a 4 sector night with 2 more to go just to help your arithmatic and they all looked in pretty poor shape as they drank their soup and tea {FREE} from the vending machine!! I would not have been able to see that from the perimeter fence!!
As I climbed out of my shiny B757 after a 6 hour single sector from Sharjah I felt quite sorry for those guys. Do not expect me to feel sorry for you though!! If the cap fits then wear it.

rollercoaster
19th Apr 2001, 21:49
They called me today. The package is as stated on a previous page.

Naturally I decline the interview.

VICCYTEN
20th Apr 2001, 07:53
I,m going to the interview but only because,
1 Its very close to where I live and
2 To tell them in person why I will not be accepting any offer they may make.

Roadtrip
20th Apr 2001, 08:04
Maybe ACCS, GSS, and DHL will hire each others rejects?

thegypsy
24th Apr 2001, 12:10
Why has it gone so quiet on this DHL thread?? Is the excitement over??

man-flex45
24th Apr 2001, 12:32
Maybe the excitment is elsewhere.
But many of us should be grateful if the ones having gone to the DHL interwiew could give us any feedback on what is asked , said ...
Thank you

MF45

THINALBERT
24th Apr 2001, 12:39
Took the words out of my mouth.

DHL will be interviewing very soon. As the package will "be discussed (negotiated?) at interview I would be most keen to learn what has been said, promised, offered or put on paper.

squeakyunclean
24th Apr 2001, 15:04
DHL rang me last week to arrange an interview. Not going though. The reply to the question about the pay was '60K'. I assume she meant 60,000. Not enough and does not meet the description of 'An excellent remuneration package...' described in their advert in Flight. Should have said 'A very average remuneration package...'.

[This message has been edited by squeakyunclean (edited 24 April 2001).]

THINALBERT
24th Apr 2001, 16:09
I believe (medium confidence rumour) that DHL have been advised by Walton Churchill that there is widespread dissatisfaction at the whole recruitment process and that, as a consequence, DHL are "looking" at improving the package.

Watch this space!

heavydane
24th Apr 2001, 19:24
It needs to improve alot for me to move my 4000h+ B767!!!
80K + 20K might do it.

don`t go as is

DouglasDigby
24th Apr 2001, 21:47
Spoke with Walton Churchill a couple of days ago. Basically, no type rating = no interview yet. But, expect something mid/end May, IF you have some kind of reasonable experience/hours – this is for direct captain; don’t know about non-rated first officer. Overall money package “still being finalised” but starters for non-type rated captain, GBP55000, rated GBP60000, no details on years 1 – 2 (or if you get more once rated??), but 1.75% increment years 3 – 10. Hourly allowances while away = GBP2.15. It’s taken them much longer to handle things than first planned, as apparently there have been over 2000 applications to process!!

thegypsy
29th Apr 2001, 19:59
Out of 2000 replies and assuming only 2% are B757 rated and really want to join DHL, then they are up and away.
How many who join will want to jump ship and join Blue Fox or Newlines should they ever lift off???

sapco2
30th Apr 2001, 14:01
Does anyone know what the pension package is like?

COWPAT
30th Apr 2001, 16:45
Can't help you with pensions sapco2, but I can tell you that we have had 2 resignations today (1 Capt 1 F/O, - both 757 rated) to go to work for DHL.

Good luck

sapco2
30th Apr 2001, 17:01
I wondered about the pension. My wife is an ex DHL employee. The deal for office staff used to be: every 2% employee contribution, DHL add 7%. I.e. 8% yields another 28% - sounds reasonable to me, although the salary needs looking at!

herminator
30th Apr 2001, 17:07
Have pride in our profession, if you do not value your skill then managers won’t either.
I was telephoned and asked to go for interview last week. Politely but firmly I told the
lady that not for the terms and conditions reportedly on offer would it be fair to waste their time.
The pilot shortage will not go on for much longer. If these are the best DHL can offer in present market conditions what will they treat you like when the inevitable change occurs.
Have pride in your skill!

sapco2
30th Apr 2001, 17:14
Herminator, me too,

COWPAT
30th Apr 2001, 17:34
IF the DHL pension scheme is as mentioned above then it is a very very good scheme and would give me something to think about.

Consider, If on a salary of 60 000 you choose to contribute 6% of your salary, this means DHL would contribute 21% making 27% of 60 000 = 16 200 pounds/year into pension of which DHL would be contributing 12 600, or, over 1 000 per month.

Worth thinking about.

sapco2
30th Apr 2001, 17:45
I knew someone would get my drift!

OC41
30th Apr 2001, 22:43
thegypsy

You obviously don't know the in's and outs of CAP371 but there's no way it would allow DHL to operate 6 sectors at night and see the BRU tea room at 0300 in the morning.
There is a rule which allows UK operators to do 5 nights but they have to be less than 8 hrs duty (so 6.30 block to block). Considering that most aircraft also day stop at the hubs then you can see that at the very most your into 4 sectors.
The current DHL operators in Ireland/Spain/Belguim and wherever have FDP's that will allow multi sector x 6 rotations thru the night but that wont happen in good old blighty!!!!

COWPAT
1st May 2001, 09:32
So, what are house prices like around kegworth then?

sapco2
1st May 2001, 11:26
Cowpat,the east midlands has some of the best value housing stock in the country.

I am interested to know, are your colleagues able to confirm the DHL conditions of contract and are they both current on the B757?

Brian Clough
1st May 2001, 11:57
COWPAT

for christs sake don't bother with Derby - go to Nottm for many many good pubs !

sapco2
1st May 2001, 13:07
How about some feedback from those of you who agreed to be interviewed?

COWPAT
1st May 2001, 14:57
Conditions are indeed as rumoured. 60k pa and 1.75% pa thereafter + annual pay review. No information on pension. Both my colleagues are high time 757/767, 1 Capt, 1 F/O.

Any feedback on pension, duty pay and other general terms and conditions greatly appreciated.

sapco2
1st May 2001, 15:43
Who is the new chief pilot?

How much are they paying training captains?

How does the salary package compare with EAT's payscale?

COWPAT
3rd May 2001, 11:48
Dont know

Dont know

Nowhere near as good

sapco2
3rd May 2001, 12:13
Anyone know if the Brits working for DHL/EAT are being allowed to transfer to EMA and if so are they going to retain their salary, terms and conditions?

COWPAT
11th May 2001, 13:58
Anybody been to interview yet and got any facts they can post re pension etc?

Anti Freeze
11th May 2001, 22:36
Got the '"Interviews anticipated next 3-4 weeks, if you do not hear from us in this time you have not been successful" letter. Does that mean I should not give up my day job? (Mind you not giving up the "day" job working freight may work!)

Excuse me I'm having problems with this Fakin computer.

'Good workman always blames his tools', or thats what my dad told me to do !

You owe me a beer, Anti-Freeze, sorted it out for ya! All makes sense once more...6 :)



[This message has been edited by Sick Squid (edited 11 May 2001).]

sapco2
12th May 2001, 15:24
A friend has just accepted a job offer although still no contract!! He has apparently been told the pension is 15% paid by DHL and 5% employee. He was also offered a training position but again nothing in writing!

thegypsy
12th May 2001, 18:15
OC41 The middle of a 4 sector night means they had done 2 sectors whenI saw them at 3am or 0300 for some people who will otherwise interject with another 2 sectors to go. I know from the sharp end all about CAP371 thanks as do most charter pilots who are flogged to the legal limits where the guidelines are used by the airlines as the working agreement.

Anti Freeze
13th May 2001, 01:19
Thanks Sick Squid

Just off to get some coal for my computer !