Heathrow Question

[sla]

I have an ATC book (printed 1995) in which it says that when Heathrow is on Westerly operations the landing/take-off runways are alternated at 3pm each day. What I was wondering is why are the runways not alternated during easterly operations?

Thanks.:cool:

[Geffen]

no doubt someone will give a better explanantion, but it is down to noise when departing 09L.

[I'm not joking sir]

I believe, (cue being shot down in flames!) that it's due to the Cranford Agreement brief details of which...

http://www.hacan.org.uk/learn/HACANWhitePapercomments.htm

Apparantly the local council is trying to abolish it...

http://www.rbwm.gov.uk/press/33003_cranford_agreement.htm

[Gonzo]

Oh lovely, does that mean 09L for departure often? Great! :rolleyes:

[Jerricho]

Bring on mixed mode! Bring on mixed mode............ :E

[Point Seven]

Don't worry mate it will happen. Late 2005 I reckon...

P7

[TopBunk]

P7

A couple of questions re mixed mode.

1. Will the runways be split as in arrivals from north use northerly runways and from the south the southerly and same for departures.

2. Will all T4 traffic use the southerly runway.

3. Are there any planned improvements to the 09R runway turnoffs to help expedite flow.

Cheers

[Gonzo]

Yeah Jer, you like it now you won't have to do it!!!!:p

P7, I hope we're telling 'them' what we need to do to make it work, rather than 'them' telling us how it's gonig to work and giving us a load of restrictions to work with.....

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

When mixed mode was tried first back in 1965 (and I wrote a magazine article about it at the time) it didn't work because there was never an equal offering of traffic from both directions - ie from the north for the north runway and from the south for the south runway. The same happened with departures... You could end up with virtually SRO on one runway while the other was dead.

When it is introduced (again) can I please be guaranteed a grandstand seat to watch that little window in the side of the GMC man's head that reads his age going round like a fruit machine?

[Lost_luggage34]

Drummms fingers in anticpation of the White Paper .....

[Gonzo]

HD,

Hey, I'm already losing my hair as it is, I don't want to exacerbate the situation (P7, that means 'make it worse':ok: ).

[Jerricho]

Now Gonzo that isn't true! I always was a big fan of it!

Make you tower guys really earn your money :p (Is this why P7 is hiding in Ops?)

[FlightDetent]

Strange, EDDM does exactly these north/south separated OPS. Well yes, it's the dreaded non-:p dependent parallels:E. Now, sorry for that. :ouch:

But what puzzles me: LHR/FRA to me seem to have flow sooo dense I've considered them to be level in peak throughput. Almost. FRA even have the RWY crossing ballet in place and do "mixed" ops, even mixing the arrival streams. Still, I always thought that LHR had things better sorted out. Now some indicate otherwise. Oh dear, I almost forgot about the 18 FRA RWY. :sad:

Nevermind, out of curiosity, what would be the benefits of mixed mode on LHR compared to present state of affairs?

For me, single arrivals/single departures make it easier to brief and plan thus fostering my nerves greatly(nee AMS!). On the other hand, the 2,5 miles or whatever it really is, gets sometimes quite thrilling wake-wise. Also, upon ours decent remark of still speeding 220 at 10 DME (last instruction outbound LAM and having complied with all "callsign only" instructions), I feel strange to be told "A..&..B..&..C.. and in fact, make it 160 now. A fast reduction, please," only to be "asked" for speedy exit out of 09L once the wheels spun. :hmm:

Cheers,
FD.

[Hobo]

A bit easier at FRA to do late visual switches as the two main runways are very close together. The R/Ws at LHR are almost exactly a mile apart.

Slightly off topic - I took off at FRA about 10 years ago on 18 (?) and just as I rotated we hit the vortex of a747 that had recently overflown to land on 07R. ASI went haywire and definite soggy feel to controls for a split second. Not something I had considered and not in airfield notes. Put in report, nothing happened but I was always cautious from then on on 18.

[Scott Voigt]

Shoot, come here to DFW where we run them in three abreast and then one string to the crosswind <G>. We take them in from four corner posts and then mix and match all of the runways to keep them all hard pressed when there is a push on... Lots of weaving about the sky to get aircraft around and down <G>...

regards

Scott

[ILS 119.5]

Can I have either 09R or 27L for all departures and arrivals, please.

[FlightDetent]

Can I have either 09R or 27L for all departures and arrivals, please.
:ok: Our hotel is also close the northern, :}

Scott, I have always felt like it, but only now get the pieces together that I don't want to do longhaul. :E

FD.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I don't think we'd stand a chance of doing what Scott gets up to, but it must be great fun.

There are too many namby-pamby anti-noise freaks over here who have virtually total control over how Heathrow ATC functions.... and most of them have moved in long after the place was built.

[Euroc5175]

I had heard that the Cranford Agreement is due to expire shortly (2004/2005).

Work has taken place previously (5 years+ ago) looking at Mixed Mode, and the file has now been dusted off as the Mixed Mode concept is explored once again - for both Heathrow and potentially Stansted.

[Point Seven]

Don't Stansted do mixed mode now anyway?!

Gonzo

If I was a ginger I'd WANT to lose all my hair.

P7

[Jerricho]

It's good to see you have worked on your interpersonal skills while in Ops there P7. :p Even if you do speak the truth?

[Point Seven]

Jer

You know me mate - the little Leprechaun had better be ready if he's gonna call me.

P7