Temporary Restriction of flying: NE Norfolk coast

[FNG]

Alas, those Tiger Moths and microlights will have to stop landing on the beach to go crab fishing. The affected area is mainly out to sea, towards the rigs, but it touches the coast from North Deanes to around Happisburgh. See below for details of the restriction:-

Between 17 May and 14 September 2004, the Cromer primary radar will be withdrawn for essential maintenance.
To prevent a potentially serious flight safety incident in the busy airspace over the Southern North Sea, the
Secretary of State has deemed it in the public interest to introduce Restriction of Flying Regulations under article
85 of the ANO 2000: Details will be included in an AIC, but the main points are listed below
With the exception of certain specific aircraft, between 0530 hrs and 2100 hrs (UTC) daily during the period 17
May to 14 September 2004 inclusive, no aircraft will be allowed to fly below a height of 3,500 feet above mean
sea level over the area listed in the AIC and shown on the map below, unless it is equipped with secondary
surveillance radar equipment capable of operating in Mode A, and operates that equipment in accordance with
such instructions as may be given to the aircraft by one of the notified air traffic control units. In addition, the
commander must obtain permission to enter the restricted airspace from one of these units
The Air Traffic Service units notified in the AIC to give permission to enter and issue transponder instructions will
include both Anglia Radar and RAF Coltishall.
Any extension to this Restriction will be notified by NOTAM. Details of Restricted Airspace feature in the daily
AIS Information Line message (0500-354802) and will be included on the Pre-flight Information Bulletins (PIB)
through the AIS Web site at http://www.ais.org.uk.

[Flyin'Dutch']

Most aircraft operating at and above the dazzling height of 3500ft will be TXPDR exquipped.

The Tiger Moths will just go underneath!

:ok:

FD

[FlyingForFun]

FD,no aircraft will be allowed to fly below a height of 3,500 feet above mean sea level:D ;)

FFF
--------------

[Flyin'Dutch']

Doh!

Grammar OK but I can obviously not speed read!!

Wel spotted!

:D :D

FD

[BRL]

Thanks for the info FNG. I will make this a sticky nearer the time. :)

[bar shaker]

A group of us are going to Cromer this weekend. We'll make the most of the beaches while we can then. :}

[Marigold]

This starts Monday after next weekend.

[bar shaker]

Full details are in Mauve AIC 20/M103/04.

It shouldn't be a problem to most, you just have to fly around the back of North Denes and stay inland until you pretty much get to Coltishall stub.

The decent landable beaches around Wells Next the Sea are unaffected :)

[FNG]

The quietest beach to land on is on Scolt Head, but look out for Mr Labouchere coming the other way in his Puss Moth.

[WorkingHard]

OK so what is the reasoning behind this. Are we likely to see more when radar is inoperative, is it the thin end of a very wide wedge? Who will benefit from this restriction? If radar is an absolute must for safety then why dont we have mandatory radar services all over the UK? etc etc. What am I missing please?

[bar shaker]

I can also see no reason at all for the restriction.

Yes there are lots mil boys over that area, yes there are big heli's going out to the rigs (of which there are many, see the AIC) from North Denes but how a few non transponder aircraft flying along the shore at 1500ft affect this, I don't know.

After all, if the radar is turned off for repairs, its turned off, what difference does having a mode A transponder make? If the can't see you, they can't see you. Unless there's something going on that that they don't want us to see.

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

I think the AIC is pretty self-explanatory; it makes perfect sense to me. ;)

[Saab Dastard]

If the intention is to ensure 1000' seperation between rotary traffic in the corridor and non Xpdr traffic, then it does make perfect sense to me.

Could someone tell me what HMR stands for and what is the status of the (assume) route? Is it similar to class F?

Thanks

SD

[Spitoon]

Can't say I know much about the area but if this is being done for the safety of aircraft operating offshore it sounds to me like there should be permanent protection through the establishment of a suitable class of airspace. Now, before everyone gets ansy about more airspace, if it's managed properly, no-one need suffer any restriction on wat they do unless it's not safe.

Just thinking out loud really .......

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

I think the intention is to provide the Anglia radar controllers with a "radar picture" where they can see all the traffic that is operating within that airspace. Consequently, they can provide an effective RAS/RIS. Ac which have a transponder will not be stopped from operating autonomously within this airspace; they merely need to confirm its operation with an approved agency as a condition of entry.

HMRs have no "status", they are within Class G airspace. If you make it class E or F, someone will have to provide an ATC service. From what I gather, the rig operators cannot even manage to set-up effective RT coverage.

[Saab Dastard]

WBS - thanks, but what soes it stand for? Helicopter M? Route?
:confused:
SD

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

Helicopter Main Route. UK AIP ENR 1.15 refers.

[WorkingHard]

WBS - of course the wording makes sense but I repeat - for whose benefit is this restriction and what is the reason? Just because Anglia is down for maintenance should noy mean ristriction in open FIR. There has to be much more to this than we are being told. AND if the radar is down then from where is the service provided for mode A signals?

[bar shaker]

I am also missing this one.

We need permission and transponders to fly through class G airspace in VFR conditions, because a radar is down?

Because of the transport role of the ND helicopters, I can understand the need for transponders in IMC in this area, but not on a fine summer's afternoon. That's what the front windows are for.

[niknak]

To put it in a nutshell/carrier bag or whatever takes your fancy:

1 - The radar head at Cromer Radar (located at Cromer on the north Norfolk coast) is being replaced, next week the whole system will be taken out of service while this happens.
This head provides both secondary (mode C) and primary (mode A) signals to Anglia and Coltishall Radar - the 2 providers of the East Anglian southern North Sea radar services.

2 - The Cromer radar head also provides SSR (mode C) to Norwich Airport.
At the moment and from next week, Norwich are getting/will get their SSR (mode C) information from the Debden radar head, near Stansted, Anglia will get theirs from Claxby, near Humberside, and Coltishall will get theirs from Honington near Lakenheath.

3 - Norwich and Coltishall will get the primary radar signals (mode A) from their own radar heads at the airfields, Anglia Radar will get theirs from Claxby to cover the southern north sea.

This means that each unit is operating at an extremely reduced level of radar coverage.

The nature of primary radar (mode A) is basically "line of sight", the further away from the radar head the aircraft is, and the lower it is, the less chance you have being seen as a primary signal.

With SSR, (mode C), much the same principal applies, the further away from the radar head and the lower the aircraft is, the lower the chance of it being seen on radar.
This has led to us having a very difficult time in seeing and separating any aircraft at low level on radar.

The majority of North Sea helicopter operations are, by the nature of the restrictive nature of helicopters, conducted below 5000ft.
The new airspace restrictions have squeezed the extensive military activities that take place over the North Sea into the area of rig helicopter operations.

All this, combined with the restrictions in being able to provide a full radar service, has led to the introduction of the temporary restricted area.

All Working Hard has to do is comply with the AIC and ask before flying over that bit of the North Sea that is very rarely used by any G/A aircraft, it's not all that difficult, just be prepared not to get the excellent radar service that normally prevails in that area.

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

Gents, the Secondary Radar comes from a SECONDARY Surveillance radar source - this is the interrogator aerial that communicates directly with that natty little box in the comm stack of a large number of aircraft. The imposition of this restriction will not have been taken lightly and a change in legislation (ANO) was most probably required. The people who gain are the commercial helicopter operators who, otherwise, would not have received any form of effective radar service from Anglia. You must remember that there are a significant number of "players" in this piece of sky (including UK & US Mil). A safety case would have been presented indicating that the provision of an SSR only radar service in this piece of un-regulated Class G airspace would not meet the necessary safety standards. Consequently, a restriction was imposed (mandatory utilisation of SSR) such that the radar controllers could guarantee that they could see all aircraft within the affected piece of airspace. There are no hidden agendas regarding this activity.

If you really want a full explanation, call the sponsor of the AIC (0207453 6540/6544) and, trust me, he will give you a comprehensive response.

[PPRuNe Radar]

Sledgehammers and nuts springs to mind .....

Can we get the CAA to mandate the use of SSR in other areas of poor cover in large parts of the UK ? After all, it must be unsafe :)

[Marigold]

FNG check your PMs.

[WorkingHard]

"All Working Hard has to do is comply with the AIC and ask before flying over that bit of the North Sea that is very rarely used by any G/A aircraft, it's not all that difficult, just be prepared not to get the excellent radar service that normally prevails in that area."

Of course we shall comply - we have no option. That is not the issue. As has just been said "Sledgehammers and nuts springs to mind .....
Can we get the CAA to mandate the use of SSR in other areas of poor cover in large parts of the UK ? After all, it must be unsafe "

If it is so unsafe for the operation of helicopters or mil or whoever because Anglia is down then seperate the helos and mil, after all very few GA will be in this area at all so I say again "what's the agenda?
There are many areas (including Norwich approaches) which frequently have no radar cover at all - at least no radar is said to be available so what is the problem? I am sure few will believe it is as simple as being portrayed.

[rodan]

Niknak - I was always under the impression that primary radar was simply primary radar, and that modes A & C were the two parts of SSR? Mode A = 4 digit code, Mode C = level information, no?

[WorkingHard]

WBS said
"Consequently, a restriction was imposed (mandatory utilisation of SSR) such that the radar controllers could guarantee that they could see all aircraft within the affected piece of airspace."

Unfortunately WBS the AIC cannot mandate the use of SSR by the Mil so you would still not be aware of ALL a/c in that airspace. Are you SURE there are no hidden agendas regarding this activity when you consider this?

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

The MoD have signed up to this. Under the Transport Act 2000, the Secretary of State cedes power to the CAA to ensure the safe provision of air navigation services; the MoD have agreed to broadly comply with the Act unless it is a matter of direct national security.

(see this link: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/7/DirectionstoCAA.pdf )

Consequently, CAA (DAP) is a joint and integrated civil/military organisation which formulates and implements common policy regarding the utilisation of airspace.

Call the number - I guarantee you will get an honest answer. (Don't call tommorrow because the individuals you need to speak to will be out of the office).

[niknak]

Sledgehammers and nuts?

I don't think so.

In this particular instance, the airspace is predominantly used by either the miliatry or north sea rig support traffic, very little G/A activity takes place. consequently, each day, each operator will make sure that their requirements are pre noted, and hopefully everyone will know about each other in an area of airspace which at the best of times is known for poor radar coverage at low levels.

The reason that we, and the majority of radar service providers are not allowed to give a service using SSR only is because of the risk of someone coming the other way not using their transponder, (very, very common!) or not having one at all, and the aircraft not painting as a primary radar return.

If anyone would like to come and visit my unit too see what I mean, I would be delighted to accomodate you.

PM me.

[WorkingHard]

WBS and Niknak- I am unlikely to come into that particular airspace in the near future so this is only of academic interest at this time. I, and I am sure others, am most grateful for the detail you provide. I do however have to disagree with WBS in that the document for which you have kindly provided a link does not in my view stae what you suggest. It does however refer to the REQUIREMENT for the CAA to provision LARS which it seems unable so to do for fairly large tracts of the UK. To come back to the original topic - it just does not sit well with the views expressed and we shall have to wait and see. Incidentally were either of you involved in the decision making process and is this why you seem so certain as to the reasons?

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

WH - We could argue about black being white until the end of time but I suspect this will get us nowhere. However, you mis-quote the document at the link. To be precise:

In particular the CAA shall:

(d) determine and procure the provision of a Lower Airspace Radar Service in UK airspace;

My final suggestion, call the number and you will get chapter and verse.

[10W]

Interesting ..... must phone the CAA chappies to ask for a similar restriction for the lower portions of the Scottish TMA ... airspace which is a damn sight busier and filled with much more heavy metal and people in aircraft than the Southern North Sea. Yet in which aircraft can freely travel without talking to an 'notified ATC unit' or having a transponder. We are also allowed to operate in that airspace with SSR only on occasions.

Be interesting to see how they wriggle out of mandating it :}

[WorkingHard]

WBS - I shall do as you suggest and call the number. I have to say this is most enlightening and I repeat the thanks for the detail so far provided.

[boomerangben]

I would imagine that the request for the TRA would have come from Colt/Anglia radar. I very much doubt it came from some faceless bureaucrat with a hidden agenda.

It makes perfect sense to me - trying to separate fast jet traffic recovering to Coltishal and slow moving helicopter traffic must be hard at the best of times. The near miss earlier this year between a helicopter and tornado would have made a clearer case for a TRA. It was in good VFR and it was close, very close. The discussion on whether fast jet pilots can really maintain a good lookout was discussed on the Rotorhead forum. But it seems that to give them an extra pair of eyes on a radar panel is a good idea. If that radar is operating below par, then safe guards need to be put in place.

[nonrad]

I thought the amount of fast jet traffic was minimal at weekends.
Why is it not just Mon - Fri if the reason is military jets??? Either jets are not the reason or the 'blanket' restriction should be changed.

[Marigold]

BRL weren't you going to make this sticky sometime soon?

[BEagle]

I would guess that the absence of this radar head means such reduced UK ADR coverage that 'they' are afraid of traffic sneaking in from the continent smuggling heavens knows what. So they ban it - by restricting the otherwise lawful movements of VFR traffic in Class G airspace.

[WorkingHard]

BRL - In view of the huge importance of the principle here is it appropriate to make it a "sticky" thread as Marigold has asked? It would seem to be the case but I don't know the rules.

Beagle - I have read with great interest your many and varied comments for a long time and you clearly have a knowledge of aviation matters exceeding that of many of us. Do you think there is more to this than face value. If so give us a best guess if not give us a view of what prompted it.

[BRL]

Thanks for the reminder chaps. Been a tad busy here the last day or two believe it or not.. ;)

[BEagle]

LL radar coverage of this part of the world has never been brilliant, in my opinion, particular whenever Neatisblunt was involved.

I once arranged for the Red Arrows to 'attack' Wattisham on their way back from a continental air display when I was planning an air defence exercise in the early 1980s. Despite providing them with the route and timings, the first the wonderful UK Air Defence Radar system knew of the air raid was when it was under way in the aerodrome overhead. They hadn't seen a thing, nor had they been able to position the F4s I'd tasked in the right place at the right time even knowing when 10 bright red Hawks were due to cross the FIR boundary!

I'm guessing that they're worried about the possibility of terrorists sneaking across at low level to launch attacks against places like, well, Sandringham for example?

[sycamore]

Aren`t there any "mobile" radar units left ? Why not send a Navy picket to sail up and down the coast all week ? Ahhhhh, stupid Boy, we don`t have any of those either !!!!!!!!!!!1

[niknak]

Working Hard, sorry for the tardy response, but no, I had nothing to do with the decision to implement this restriction, but I do have a vested interest as an acto who has to work in that area.

All unit managers and north sea operators (civil and military) were consulted, and given the chance to make an input, which they all did, and I think that this was what they all agreed would be the best way to do things.

It probably isn't perfect, but life very rarely is.

[WorkingHard]

Niknak - no apology necessary we all have lives to lead outside these pages and any response is always welcome. You and others pointed us in the right direction to get some clarification on this and I have learnt a valuable lesson. I spoke to someone in DASP and had the most interesting conversation. My terminology may somewhat inexact in what follows but the gist is correct. Essentially this restriction was assessed as necessary by NATS because of their rolling programme to update the radar heads. This left an area where the radar and atc services would be degraded. The specific area covered by the AIC is an area where NATS is MANDATED to provide atc services. Surprise, surprise, atc required in the open FIR !!!! It seems this is true and so in order to comply with the "licence", NATS had to place restrictions so that what remains of radar could be used to ensure a/c are seen. Military were very against this but of course the rig operators have a voice (unlike GA) that is heard and they know their rights.
Perhaps some of you guys out there with great knowledge can tell us all which other area are like this, i.e. where atc service has to be provided.
It was also very enlightening to hear about more controlled airspace being proposed, sponsored primarily by Eastern Airways.

[FNG]

The NATS Licence is a public document, which you may browse at your leisure:-

http://www.caa.co.uk/erg/default.asp?page=585

[WorkingHard]

FNG - thanks for the link. However you did not answer the question posed - namely "Perhaps some of you guys out there with great knowledge can tell us all which other area are like this, i.e. where atc service has to be provided"
Of course you may not know the answer and just posted a link to a very lenghthy document.

[FNG]

I might know the answer, but you would have to ask a lot more nicely than that. Oh, and stop taking the conspiracy pills.*


*OK, I admit it, the TRA is to conceal the fact that Elvis is flying in on one of the Bermuda Triangle aircraft, piloted by Lord Lucan, in order to visit Shergar in that place near Marham where Kennedy ordered them to keep the captured alien spaceship before he was killed by L Ron Hubbard.

[WorkingHard]

Is that the lawyers reply to distract us from the truth then? Do you really know the answer or do you require a fee to even answer that? I'm sorry you read my last post that way as it was not intended to upset or hurt anyone. However if you're going to take it personally then so be it.

[FNG]

Working Hard, do you work especially hard to be such hard work? I am more than happy to offer occasional legal answers here without thought of fee, but as you are determined to be so blunt, the answer to this one will have to be RTFM*. The second half of the post was, by the way, a joke. If you are really interested in conspiracy theories, I can recommend several thousand websites to occupy your time. Would you rather start with the Philadelphia Experiment, or with the CIA planted electrodes in my brain stuff?



*perhaps later on when I have drunk more coffee, I might post the page references, but Acrobat 6 is reasonably, well, acrobatic, or at least it is on my PC.


EDIT: There was a report on the Today prog on Radio 4 this morning about fast jet vs rig-helo conflicts: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/listenagain/ (0652)

[WorkingHard]

FNG - Unreservedly withdraw anything which may have offended. If you read my post after I talked to DASP you will see that I had simple reasons given and no conspiracy theory at all. It was a most enlightening conversation with a "bod" who is also a GA pilot so he understood the concerns expressed here.
Now, other than a fee (joke please), what else will tempt you to giving up the information. I like to think I am good at some things but trawling through documentation (did I hear you say diplomacy as well?) is not one of them. So PLEASE be a decent fellow and help.

WH

[FNG]

Peace, joy, harmony and understanding. From memory, pages 8 and 95 might do it: see the definitions of "Core Services" and "Specified Services". Anyone that wishes to point out that I have the page numbers wrong may award themselves whichever medal they find in the box by the door on the way out.


Edit: pages 9 and 96, so I claim the medal myself. The North Sea Helicopter Advisory Service does not really have any close parallels elsewhere in the UK or offshore. Otherwise, in very broad summary, provision of a service is mandated for the London and Scottish FIRs, for the approaches to the main London terminals, and for the oceanic area for which the UK provides ATS under international agreements.

[M609]

From a casual observer, and ATCO, it's seems that the root case is that the traffic levels dictate a higher degree of protection then what class G really gives, and that a higher then mandated service is defacto beeing exectued in the open FIR on a regular basis. When the tools of the trade is downgraded, here comes the restrictions.....and I quite understand that they are needed.


But then again, the UK colleauges hang their hat on the type of service provided and not the airspace, like the rest of the world do.

Hope this case works out for all of you anyway. :)

M609