Returning to base

[Ian_Wannabe]

Hey, just a little thought I've had whilst thinking about my QXC.

If I’m getting a little uneasy with the visibility whilst flying from A to B and I decide to make a 180 and return home, what's the proper phraseology that I use with the controller to make sure he/she is aware of my intentions?

Would something along the lines of "G-xxxx", request return to EGCJ because of reducing vis" be ok??

I don’t think I’ve ever been told what to do in this situation :confused: Sorry if its blindingly obvious

Cheers

Ian

[Chilli Monster]

Nothing wrong with what you've said, however.

Who's the commander of the aircraft - you or the ATCO?

You don't request it - you tell them you're doing it!

[Final 3 Greens]

Ian

IMHO it depends who who are talking to.

If you are talking to an AFISO en-route, e.g. London Info, I would say "G-ABCD, position, level, now returning to EXXX." You might add a planned routing such as via Town A and Town B, just to hlep the AFISO get the picture.

If you are flying under an ATC clearance (e.g. transiting controlled airspace), you would need to request the change, although if it came to stick and lift - e.g. you were about to fly into IMC and are not instrument or IMC rated (or just don't feel prepared to do it), then you can tell the controller what you need to do and if necessary do it before the clearance, although you may be called on to justify your decision afterwards.

However, this is very much a last option to take - if in your judgement the aircraft would be endangered otherwise, because you do not know what other traffic the ATCO is working and how he/she is playing the game of 3D chess ad may be causing them a problem.

[Mr Wolfie]

Ian,

I decide to make a 180 and return home

I'm probably teaching grandma to suck eggs, but don't forget that to return to base will probably not require a simple 180 heading change, but you should treat it as any in-flight diversion and allow for wind direction & speed.

I had to return to base on the first and second attempts at my QXC due to low cloud draping itself across the mountains of mid-Wales. The most difficult part was in actually making the decision to abort as there is a certain amount of expectation and thus added pressure that you will go from A>B>C>A as planned. The fact that you are considering the possibility in advance means that you shouldn't be too fazed by it.

Good luck and enjoy it.

Mr. W

[montster]

And don't forget to call your destination aerodrome when you get back to base to let them know you're not coming!

[knobbygb]

I can see where Ian's coming from with this question - I assume it's the actual RT phraseology that's the problem, rather than anything else.

When learning to fly, RT is the most nervewracking bit, and we are taught to use the precise CAP413-style stuff. The problem comes when you get your license and find there's no 'correct' phrase for "circling over my mates village so he can take pictures".

The controllers who normally give me a FIS seem quite precise about knowing my operating altitude, intended destination etc. (and quite understandably - they're trying to provide the best service they can, both to me and others - they nearly always call out traffic even though a FIS doesn't demand this of them). The thing is, if I just want to buger about and fly around the open FIR willy-nilly it can seem a bit restraining having to keep people updated and I must admit that for this reason I've recently taken to not always getting a FIS when I perhaps would normally have done so. It's quite liberating for a low hours PPL who's used to constant radio chattering. Doesn't seem quite 'right' though.

[FlyingForFun]

Although I agree with all the replies so far, not many of them address Ian's question, which was what to say on the radio!

Ian, if CAP413 doesn't tell you what to say (or if you can't remember the exact wording), then English works fine!

Also, if you're not returning to base, but diverting to a different airfield, make sure they know it's a diversion - many airfield will waive the landing fee. I've used r/t along the lines of "G-XX is a PA28, originally from A to B but diverting to you due weather, 5 miles south at 1000' request joining information" in this situation. (Obviously request joining instructions, rather than information, if it's ATC.)

FFF
-------------

[Evo]

"G-XX is a PA28, originally from A to B but diverting to X due weather..


Last time I made this call the controller (at Bournemouth) asked me to clarify if I needed assistance or wanted to declare an emergency. Might just be worth adding that it's no big deal in the original call to keep their blood pressure down :)

[FNG]

knobbyg writes:

"when learning to fly, RT is the most nervewracking bit"

Arrrrrrgh. Talking. In English. On a radio. How hard is that? Harder/scarier than not crashing in a crosswind?


Also:-

"I've recently taken to not always getting a FIS when I perhaps would normally have done so. It's quite liberating for a low hours PPL who's used to constant radio chattering. Doesn't seem quite 'right' though"

Arrrrgh again. What's not right? You could always, if you wanted to, check in with London Info, get the QNH but state "no service required", or monitor D&D, or (gasp!) turn the radio off.

[Evo]

There's a lot to be said for turning the radio off or switching to 121.5. There's also a lot to be said for talking to people who can give you useful information. Plenty of people blunder around through IAPs or the under aeroplanes doing upside-downy things without a word with the locals who could warn them off. The skill to be learned is, I think, when to talk and when not to.

[Stoney X]

knobbygb, your post has cast some light on a discussion I had a few weeks ago with somebody else (you know who you are!)

FNG, please don't mock knobbygb. I too found RT the most nervewracking bit about the PPL. Give me a scary crosswind any day! When concentrating hard on aviating, just about getting the navigation bit right and then having to find the spare brain capacity to get clearance to enter a control zone, well, it's just not so easy for some. It's nothing that a bit a practice and experience won't solve of course but we all had to start somewhere. I do however agree with the point you are making.

Ian_Wannabe, good luck on QXC. Hope you don't have to return to base too early.

Regards
Stoney X

[Chilli Monster]

If you are flying under an ATC clearance (e.g. transiting controlled airspace), you would need to request the change, although if it came to stick and lift - e.g. you were about to fly into IMC and are not instrument or IMC rated (or just don't feel prepared to do it), I don't think I've ever seen such a simple question turned into such a mish mash of confusion!

If it's phraseology we're talking, and even if it's inside CAS at the time (unlikely, but possible on a zone transit):

Ian - Approach, G-ABCD is diverting back to (name of departure airfield) due to unsuitable weather.

Approach (or Zone/Info/Control/Uncle Tom Cobbley and all) - G-ABCD, Roger (plus any routeing instructions they might require if inside CAS).

You've given him a pretty good clue in your transmission what you can and cannot do. Believe me - we pick up on such things

Couldn't be simpler :)

[Final 3 Greens]

Chilli

Please will you let me know which Info stations give routing instructions?

[Chilli Monster]

F3G

Read and interpolate the reply - and don't try to be a smart arse - it doesn't work ;)

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Approach, G-ABCD is diverting back to (name of departure airfield) due to unsuitable weather. And the reply:

"Turn approved."

???? - from a MATZ controller when I was in the open FIR???? Just as well he "approved" of my turn seeing as I was half way round it by then.

[FNG]

It's just a military controller habit of speech, Gertrude. They mean no harm. They know that they can't really boss us around, not least because talking on the radio is so hard that our brains explode whenever anyone does so. I've often had that nice bloke at Marham say stuff like "Traffic, 2 miles, 4 o'clock, under my control" meaning: another blundering puddle jumpist not unlike myself is flying a similarly random trajectory somewhere else nearby in the middle of nowhere. Brace for impact.

[Ian_Wannabe]

Hey - Thanks for the replies and the good luck everyone :ok:

My mind is reassured - all I need now is the reassurance of the wind, fog,haze.... bla bla.... :}

Thanks again!
Ian

[Final 3 Greens]

Ian W

Approach (or Zone/Info/Control/Uncle Tom Cobbley and all)

For the sake of clarity, Info stations do not give clearances, only informtion. Please excuse me if you were aware of this anyway.

[FNG]

If we are being hyper-pedantic, London Info do pass clearances issued by other Air Traffic Units (for example clearance to enter an Airway), but don't issue clearances themselves. Ooooh, picky.

[Final 3 Greens]

FNG

If one was being very picky, you might classify the passing on of clearances from other ATSUs as providing information ;), but that would be missing the point.

It's useful to know that London Info do this, although Ian W probably won't be seeking too many airways clearances on his QXC :D

[YYZ]

My rabbit likes sardines.... Im sorry was i getting off the topic:rolleyes:

[aiglon]

Oooh, handbags at three paces :)

Aiglon

[Whirlybird]

I'm not sure how many hours I flew before I realised that radio use was simply about communication, but it was a lot. Before that I too found RT among the hardest things about flying - it's common, FNG, however illogical, and I know that from the point of view of student, PPL, and instructor, at one time or another. Even some instructors don't seem to know how to ask ATC if you can orbit to take photos of your mate's house; they mumble about "general handling" etc. But plain English works well. If you want to photograph a house in the circuit, ask, for permisiion to do just that. If you just want to bimble about, general handling in the area of xxxx ix a good way of putting it. I think carefully about turning off the radio; it's quite crowded up there...why not tell someone what you're doing; they won't bother you unless it's necessary. But to get back to this communication thing, these days I just relax, tell them who I am and where I am and what I want, and never mind the phraseology - and everyone seems happy. I'm still not sure why it took me so long to be able to do that. :confused:

[Whirlygig]

knobbyg writes: "when learning to fly, RT is the most nervewracking bit" Arrrrrrgh. Talking. In English. On a radio. How hard is that? Harder/scarier than not crashing in a crosswind?

FNG - try hovering AND talking ;) ;)

When your workload is high and you're concentrating on flying the thing, then speech is the first thing that goes out of the window so finding RT difficult ain't surprising or unusual.

Cheers

Whirlygig

[Whirlybird]

whirlygig,

I definitely agree! And the trouble is, not a lot of ATCOs realise that. They see us hovering and it looks easy, so they don't realise that it's taking all our hands and feet, a lot of concentration, and that at the same time we're possibly coping with a crosswind (LOTS of foot work needed for hovering in a Xwind, for those who don't know), trying to work out where to go in an unfamiliar place, and making sure we don't blow over any light PFA-type aircraft or hit anything with this long tail which we can't actually see. :eek: They direct you on some complicated rotary-only route into the airfield, and then give you taxi instructions as you're approaching and coming to a hover. That's OK...but they expect an answer too!!!! NOW, not when you've actually come to a hover and feel more under control!!!!! At least with a f/w aircraft they don't give you taxi instructions till you've landed the thing.

OK, so I'm exaggerating just a little bit as usual to make my point. ;) :) But whirlygig has a good point, which is true more generally. When the workload is high, talking is just one more thing. And for low-ish hours pilots, f/w or rotary, the workload is often high. And to try to talk on the radio under those circumstances may be just one thing too much. And if you don't do it well, and feel an idiot, or the controller gets annoyed, it becomes harder the next time...and so on........