Is This Forum Being Censored?

[Rusty A300]

Jetdriver

I guess it is a sensitive issue what can and can't be said in public. And I realize that many people around the world are activists with low tolerance for diversity, as it appears that you may be. But countries, industries and tools of those countries and industries, that espouse freedom, should be the most insightful of others opinions and methods of expression.

A person's intent can be encapsulated in the first sentence. Even conspiracy to commit illegal activity would be better exposed than censored. Most of us on these forums are educated with advanced skills in modern technology. It is an insult to dictate morality to people who define the term in their daily lives.

There are hot button issues [Existence of God, Religion, Use of Technology, Abortion, Equal Rights, Use of Violence, SEX, terrorism, technical data....etc.] that become internalized and points of confusion when withheld from outside acknowledgment. Censors (moderators) should be a focus point to keep a topic aimed in a constructive direction without consent to force their personal will on others, especially on the open Net and regardless of ownership when a facility is open to the public.

Obscenity is simply an expression of frustration that becomes quickly diluted by the act of expression. To deny expression only intensifies the need. Sometimes people become so entrenched in an issue they lose perspective. Censors (moderators) should have enough tolerance to comment on content without judging it's effect, validity or interest to others, let alone excluding content based on selfish opinion.

Even individuals intentionally obnoxious can be thwarted by acknowledging their intent. Conspiracy is best served in secrecy and I would feel uncomfortable believing someone was attempting to conspire against my interests. But, I would rather know that a plot was being devised over a friendly beer than to find deception in the shadows...

I thus ask the question: is this forum being censored, moderated or personalized?

[PPRuNe Radar]

Rusty A300

Anyone who does not abide by the rules they signed up to when registering with PPRuNe is liable to censorship or moderation action.

[Paul Wilson]

And of course it's Danny's train set, and he can invite along who he likes to play.

Also don't forget that if a lawsuit happens, it's Danny as "publisher" who gets to carry the can

[amanoffewwords]

http://www.computeroptions.ltd.uk/temp/censoring.gif

hth

nb. but seriously, I don't see why some editing shouldn't be done, it's a fairly open forum with a wide readership so the possibilities of upsetting someone or making statements that may end up being mis-interpreted are that much greater.

[Jetdriver]

Rusty A300,

Well there is a question ! Perhaps you should ask Danny as this forum and all the others on PPRuNe belong to him, and are ultimately adminstered thus. However since you ask the question I will attempt to answer it. I have to say that your stated dislike of moderation, censorship and the general suppression of your own expression is probably going to make any explanation redundant, but nevertheless...........

The "Questions" forum on PPRuNe is in a group of forums titled "Professional Pilots Forums". This forum is intended for questions that can be best answered by a professional pilot. The forum is given a flexible degree of latitude to include questions for other aviation professionals that may not be specific to professional pilots but might still have a significant level of collateral interest. There are many specialized forums on PPRuNe and in order to keep this forum defined, any threads that are better suited to other forums are likely to be moved to them. If this is felt to be "censorship, moderation or personalization", then yes it most certainly happens.

Dealing with the other points in the order you raise them :

It doesn't matter what your opinions or methods of expression are, nor does it matter how insightful of those things are countries that espouse freedom. This is a private site with rules of membership and accepted levels of behaviour and conduct. Given the level of membership and the standards that most people seem able to adopt and apply that would not seem to be an evident problem. The site owners are responsible for ensuring that certain restrictions apply to prevent themselves falling foul of legal repercussions and other unwelcome attention. Freedom of speech is not an enshrined right here, nor is it in the real world as one who chose test the limits of such would no doubt become rapidly aware.

A persons intent is most certainly NOT always encapsulated in the first sentence, indeed the intent can often be masked ! ;)
Many people on these forums are indeed educated with skills in modern technology. Morality is not an issue I can comment on as it applies to your question, so the dictation of it or otherwise is a moot point.

God, religion, sex, abortion and equal rights etc are often dealt with on PPRuNe, but in other forums so again the point isn't relevant here. You must take notice of the fact that this isn't "the open net", this is a privately owned website that is accessible and available to the public at large. That does NOT mean that the public dictate the standard or general rules of conduct. The owner does that and devolves some of the responsibilty for that to the voluntary band of moderators and administrators that carry out the function.

Obscenity may well be an act of frustration, but it is not an act that is well tolerated on this forum. As you have already pointed out, this forum is largely patronised by an intelligent and educated group of people. It is therefore not unreasonable to assume that such people can make a point or response that employs those abilities without the resource to obscenity. Where that proves not to be the case some editing of the offensive language may be substituted "********" thus. This is done to keep a subject on track. If minor edits are insufficient to resolve the problem ( not normally a difficulty on the questions forum ) then the thread or part of it can be moved to the administrators forum for further and equally informed and educated consideration !

This forum as with the others is moderated using a set of parameters that encompass the rules laid down by the site owners. It like the others is moderated by a person or persons with their own beliefs, morality, emotions and falibilities. As such and despite the best efforts to ensure that moderation is at all times even handed and fair, inevitably that will not always prove to be the case. Sometimes I get it wrong. Moderation is usually only noticed when the application of such causes one party to feel aggrieved. When that happens there is usually a polarization into those that support and those that oppose. In judgement of a dispute you are invariably only going to please one party. Sometimes that will not be the majority. As a moderator it is only necessary to satisfy the site owner even though in doing so (hopefully) you satisfy the majority.

If censorship therefore amounts to removing obscenity or irrelevant matter then yes it applies. If moderation means tempering ( by removal ) the extremes of free speech then yes that applies also. If it means spending around 100 hours a month keeping various forums tidy and interesting to the majority of the members, then that applies as well. If personalization means that the forums are each flavoured by the personality and character of the people that oversee them, then yes that happens as well.


I trust that answers your question, but that it in any event clarifies certain issues. Finally sanctions are rarely applied here but as you (of course) are no doubt aware, the facility exists ! :cool:

[Notso Fantastic]

<Finally sanctions are rarely applied here but as you (of course) are no doubt aware, the facility exists !>
Point of order please! I chastised someone for posting an internet myth is JetBlast ('when someone phones you and says they're an engineer and asks you to press 9, it could cost you 20 pounds' or somesuch rubbish). When I requested such absurd nonsense was not spread further, without using abusive language or otherwise breaking the rules apart from criticising the few who absurdly came to the defence of the myth spreader, I was 'locked out' of JB! There was worse said to me than I responded, and the sanction was taken on me. I am not impressed with Pprune Moderation!

[Jetdriver]

Having already made the point that this is a forum for "Questions" for professional pilots, I am being indulgent in allowing this thread to run in this forum and probably not for much longer.

Notsofantastic, I do not moderate jetblast and have no knowledge of the matters surrounding your posting. However I can only repeat what I have already said :

This forum as with the others is moderated using a set of parameters that encompass the rules laid down by the site owners. It like the others is moderated by a person or persons with their own beliefs, morality, emotions and falibilities. As such and despite the best efforts to ensure that moderation is at all times even handed and fair, inevitably that will not always prove to be the case. Sometimes I get it wrong. Moderation is usually only noticed when the application of such causes one party to feel aggrieved. When that happens there is usually a polarization into those that support and those that oppose. In judgement of a dispute you are invariably only going to please one party. Sometimes that will not be the majority. As a moderator it is only necessary to satisfy the site owner even though in doing so (hopefully) you satisfy the majority.

[ohyouareaone]

you may claim to be a rusty 300 but you shine to me - a little too subtle for some it seems

[Rusty A300]

I'm not about to engage in a match of Censorship-Ping-Pong with a self-righteous-can-never-be-wrong-always-on-the-defence PPRuNe Moderator! My opinion is is clearly stated at the top of this page. I merely wish to add the following in closing -

Freedom of expression (and thereby, speech) is one of the most fundamental rights that individuals enjoy. It is fundamental to the existence of democracy and the respect of human dignity. It is also one of the most dangerous rights, because freedom of expression means the freedom to express one's discontent (as I have done here) with the status quo and the possible desire to change it. As such, it is one of the most threatened rights (as you so clearly prove on a regular basis), with governments, (Aviation Discussion Forum moderator(s)) - and even human rights groups - all over the world constantly trying to curtail it. If that is how you define the verse which shall become your life's contribution, fill your boots up mate!

When all else is said and done; if it is MODERATING (and not censorship or personalizing) in which you find yourself involved, then perhaps you (and your members) might be better served, by less of THIS (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=124286&perpage=15&pagenumber=2) attitude, and more "...exchanges of trivial niceities."

[PPRuNe Radar]

Good luck with your own website and Forum where you can live in an ideal world :ok:

Here, you live by the rules of the site.

[FlyingForFun]

Rusty called Jetdriver a:self-righteous-can-never-be-wrong-always-on-the-defence PPRuNe ModeratorYet Jetdriver says of himself:Sometimes I get it wrongSeems to me that Rusty hasn't actually read anything Jetdriver said???

As for freedom of speech, Rusty, if you're ever lucky enough to be invited to my house, you stick to my rules while you're there, otherwise I'll show you the door. Likewise, when you or I are in Danny's house (or using Danny's website) we stick to his rules. Well, most of us do, anyway, and those who don't are asked to leave.

FFF
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[Rusty A300]

Thank you gentlemen. I am astounded by the intellect of your responses!

[Jetdriver]

It helps when you understand that Rusty's alter EGO was banned for a couple of days and he is still smarting about it.