"Undesirable" SQ Capt forced to leave Singapore

[Beer Can Dreaming]

Singapore throws out 'union activist'
7:18 AM April 4

A Malaysian pilot accused of being a union organiser at Singapore Airlines (SIA) lost his last-ditch appeal to retain his permanent residency there and has been given two weeks to leave, media reports said Saturday.

Captain Ryan Goh's personal appeal to keep his status was rejected by Home Affairs Minister Wong Kan Seng, who had earlier described him as an undesirable immigrant, the Today newspaper said.

Mr Goh, who also holds Australian permanent residency rights, told the newspaper he felt "very sad" because he considered Singapore home.

Immigration officials last month stripped Mr Goh of his permanent resident status after he was singled out by Senior Minister Lee Kuan Yew for instigating a revolt in the SIA pilots' union over a labour dispute with management.

The unrest led to the ouster of the union's leadership and government warnings against the pilots' confrontational stance.

"How would you feel when you have to leave home? I feel sad, uncertain. It's not like moving from hotel to hotel. It's moving home," Mr Goh told the newspaper.

"I did not go through the appeal process just for the sake of going through the motions. I tried hard to convince the authorities that I was a value-adding resident."

SIA said Mr Goh can no longer work for the carrier.

The airline said it would "make the necessary arrangements with him concerning his cessation of employment with the company," according to the report.

Source: AFP

[Dambuster]

Always so eager to blame the poor old Malaysians arent they?
I recall a few months ago when a Singapore Airlines B777 ran off the side of runway 04L at Singapore in a downpour the official company press release included words to the effect that the pilot was "a Malaysian Captain".
How altruistic these people must be.

[proplever]

I'm not mentioning any names 'cos I'd get into strife with W, but there's a pilot group here in Oz that could do with a confrontationalist in their ranks. Think they should offer this bloke a job?

Might stop 'em from taking the lowest offer around!

[Capt Fathom]

It's not an original concept, as I seem to recall someone by the name of Bob Hawke claiming a certaining group of people to be 'political dissidents', sometime in the late 80's ! :E

[dingo084]

Well' that didn't take long.

The 4th response manages to create a connection to the one subject that eventually crops up and ruins most threads.

Oh well, as I said it didn't take long.

W, might as well lock this now and save some time (and bandwidth)

ding:yuk:

[LetsGoRated]

Actually Dingo, it only took the 2nd response to "create a connection"....... incredible!!

:ok:

[Captain Stoobing]

From an outsiders perspective SQ seems like an fairly unhappy place at present. I was in Singapore recently and saw that nearly everyday there was at least 1 article in the newspaper regarding the SQ crews and there battles with the airline.

Maybe we don't have it so bad here!

Capt Stoobing.

(PS I am not passing an opinion on SQ just stating what I saw)

[Whiskery]

There are only two rules for peaceful and uncomplicated living in Singapore.

Rule # 1. Do NOT get involved in any dissent with the Singapore Government.

Rule # 2. If you are considering taking on the Singapore Government refer to Rule # 1.

Keep the faith:]

[Triple 7]

Yea whiskery, just walk the straight line and dont look sideways. At the end of the day we make this place the way it is, sure if it was not for the people we all would not have a job flying the jets. What comes around goes around as they say in life. Money makes money.

There is no business, Like Show Business.

[Capt Claret]

777,

Would you mind translating that into English please? ;)

[Whiskery]

CC I would guess that 777 works for SQ and is saying, in a round-a-bout way, DON'T rock the LKY boat.

His reference to show business, I interpret to mean that, SQ has become a bit of a circus !;)

[Triple 7]

Claret, OK Sure you want english. How about RIVET 8 Arrival Runway 16 right, Flight level 370....

Now what you do is from RIVET at 42 DME SY , track SY R- 229 to BOOGI. Cross TAMMI 20 DME SY at or below 9000 FT. Expect radar vectors to final approach course on passing BOOGI 10 DME SY. How easy it that ....

Claret, what kind of engines do you use there old boy ?
Nothing is better than a pair of Rolls Royce Trent 892 pushing me along for the ride up top.

Anyway i prefer a Penfolds St. Henri Shiraz to a glass of cask wine claret......lol

Its no circus here, all is well, its only a circus when your have clowns running you show.

Cheers and see you up top...i'll eat you up with my thrust...

[itchybum]

Mr Goh, who also holds Australian permanent residency rights, told the newspaper he felt "very sad" because he considered Singapore home. Another angle on the story... Why has the jouno seen fit to bring this to the readers' attention?

And if he considers Singapore home then why does he need Australian residency rights?

I, for one, hope the ******** doesn't end up over here. He can retire, go live with Mahatir and whinge about the place over a grape knee-high. Leave the residency rights for some legitimate refugee who really wants to live here.

[404 Titan]

itchybum
And if he considers Singapore home then why does he need Australian residency rights?
Be very careful what you say because you might tread on your dick. For all we know he may be married to an Australian Citizen. He obviously had Singaporean residency because he worked for Singapore Airlines, probably for a long time. I call Hong Kong home. Does that mean I’m not Australian?

All this gentleman was responsible for was the ousting of the S-ALPA board when it became apparent they weren’t representing the members during last years SARS crisis. It became obvious to most in the Union that the board was becoming a lackey of SIA management, (something it had probably been for a while). You have to ask yourself, if this had happened in Australia, what would have happened? Nothing because he didn’t break the law. He was trying to represent the members of his union in a country where most workers have very little rights and protections like you do in Australia.
:*

[Triple 7]

Atleast you understand there is more to flying and life,than being in australia, if it was not for asian airlines growing and needing crews you all down there would have had no chance in hell of making it to the jet age.

20 million people is so small in the terms of world aviation, you can thank all the airlines and crew required up here in asia to grow so we can hire more down under people.

I know its a hard deal for some, but in the end we all have a job and doing what we like best.

Catch you up top, matey. We will Chit chat more.


Flying is the SECOND greatest thrill known to man,
LANDING is the First.....................

[Kaptin M]

And if he considers Singapore home then why does he need Australian residency rights?....Leave the residency rights for some legitimate refugee who really wants to live here.

Perhaps one (or both) of his parents are Australian citizens, itchybum. The family name (Goh) appears to be of Chinese origin, however a lot of the ABC's (Australian born Chinese) have been here for a couple of generations longer than some of Western-sounding surnames.

The poor old S.M. - officially, "Senior Minister", but according to some posters on the Far East Forum, Senile Minister - must be feeling more than somewhat challenged by Captan Goh, if he needs to resort to expulsion from the island state!

IMO, Singapore Airlines seems to be losing "direction".
A once strong airline, renown for having the (average) newest fleet of aircraft in the world, a healthy Safety record, great inflight service, and a desirable work environment for non-Singaporeans, SQ has been on a strong downhill slide over the past 3 years or so. Singapoor Cargo now offer one of the crappiest contracts around.
Sick Air (the A320 SQ regional) are likewise offering 3rd world salaries.
A significant number of expats and Singaporeans have VOLUNTARILY resigned - something previously not experienced by SQ.
Conditions for expats are now almost the same (or even less) as those offered by Third World, developing countries, and the Safety levels, by some reports, plunging.

You might have RR's on the wings, Triple 7, but like the rest of Singapore, you'll probably find when the gloss rubs off they are, IN FACT, only reconditioned Isuzu's.......and that bottle of Penfolds St. Henri Shiraz, is in fact a (Lucky Plaza) COPY, lah!20 million people is so small in the terms of world aviation, Yeah, and 3 million is LESS than 1/6th of that "so small" number, lah!

Can't think of a better place for the ex-AN "retirees" to have ended up!! (There you go again, Dingo089 - 4

[itchybum]

if it was not for asian airlines growing and needing crews you all down there would have had no chance in hell of making it to the jet age Now that I've picked myself off the floor and wiped the tears of mirth away, let me say that, in general, I have no idea at all what
-it is you're talking about,
-mushroom you're smoking or
-planet you're from.

But I do know that without western civilisation and technology you all up there would have no chance in hell (or out) of making it to the iron age.

more to...life than being in australia
So why are so many of your brothers heading this way in anything that'll float???

I've been there before and I can tell you there's a tiny little island state up north somewhere suffering from a long-term nation-wide outbreak of Tiny Weeny Small-Dick Syndrome whenever they look toward the Southern Cross. :ok: Don't worry matey, some Aussies might head that way and take your cash (notice the SGD's not doing so well) but we don't want to hang around afterward.

In fact I think the TWSDS is less a syndrome than the norm... :yuk:

As for the theories on Mr. Goh's status......... yeah. Right. :hmm:

[404 Titan]

itchybum
But I do know that without western civilisation and technology you all up there would have no chance in hell (or out) of making it to the iron age.
Hate to burst your bubble but the Chinese and other Asian countries were way ahead of the so called “developed countries” sailing ships three times bigger than their European counterparts to the middle east 200 years before Captain Cook was even born. Today Asia is the powerhouse of most of the worlds computer and semiconductor industry. Now lets see what value added products Australia produces???? I can’t think of any. Not very clever are we because we sell all the raw material to make them but instead we let the rest of the world do all the high value work and then re-import the finished product.
So why are so many of your brothers heading this way in anything that'll float???
As to your remarks about boat people, most of them are from the Middle East and Pakistan, not Asia.
(notice the SGD's not doing so well)
If you have a close look at Singapore’s trading partners, most of it is with the USA. Now have a look at the exchange rate between the US and Singapore. It has hardly changed in the last two years. As someone that use to be a foreign currency dealer for a large Australian Bank in the late 80’s this would indicate that the Singapore government has been intervening in the FOREX markets to keep the SGD artificially low to drive exports with the US and other countries and allow the economy to expand. Australia on the other hand has seen its dollar rise to levels that is hurting exports and if it doesn’t come down soon could see Australia’s economy slow dramatically. :ugh::uhoh:

[itchybum]

...sailing ships three times bigger than their European counterparts to the middle east 200 years before... Yes and flying into Asia you can still see them in use. I wonder if they drive them the way they drive cars. What else??

Ok, electronics. Yes they do have very cheap labour up there, don't they? I agree fully.

And their "copy" industries (watches, clothes, perfumes and aftershaves, DVDs, music, etc, etc, etc...) have really flourished, mainly as a result of this technology, that as far as I know, was developed in the west.

...boat people, most of them are from the Middle East and Pakistan, not Asia. ...apart from the previous ones from Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia, etc, etc, etc. But I was speaking metaphorically. They don't all turn up on a boat and wearing rags but they are all keen to live in Australia. Why? Because it's a great place, that's why. Even if we don't lead the world in semi-conductor copying and production, video-piracy and animal cruelty.

exchange rate between...US and Singapore...hardly changed in... last two years. use (sic) to be a foreign currency dealer for a large Australian Bank in the late 80’s Is this why you're no longer a trader: The SGD was about USD .50 in 1990. It's been as high as about USD.73 around '96 and is back down to around .59 now. That's as far back as Yahoo will trace it but if you want to take it further in dogged pursuit of some vitally-important, half-glimpsed, distant victory, be my guest.

The main goal of my mainly tongue-in-cheek statements was an answer to triple 7's moronic mumblings. Personally I think this guy is fishing for bites but he reads like someone’s slow-witted mongloid brother has seized the keyboard for the day, typing his crap about his Trent donks and his thrust and STARs. Big donk, small donger, obviously. What a knobber, as my little nephew would say and he's only 6yo.

It could even be No Reds, back to baffle us with his bull****e. It looks a little similar to his ravings. But he’s definitely not a pilot. No pilot I know would spout that kind of tripe. Maybe a groundling of some variety.

As for little plots of land in the north, that’s just the way it is. I can’t help it, I’m not the one with the tiny weiner. And if they don’t like it they can lick my big long Aussie white one, of which I am justifiably proud

[balance]

Bugga. Claret, did you cause ALL that? I've just re-read the entire thread to try to figure out what caused this little spat, and yes, Claret, it can be traced back to you questioning 777 on his mixed metaphors. That seemed to send him over the edge!:}

A point which he failed to realise, BTW.:ok:

Now it has degenerated to this?

Now, be careful here itchybum, 777 will pull out the old "R" word next. It's what people do when they are losing an argument (ie they have a small lizard!) and can trump the other by calling him/her a racist.

Me? I'm going to go grab a bottle of wine, yup, maybe even claret, put my feet up and watch what happens next! Keep it up!:E :E :E

[404 Titan]

itchybum
Yes and flying into Asia you can still see them in use. I wonder if they drive them the way they drive cars. What else??
I guess you haven’t been to or seen the Hyundai shipyards in South Korea. To make such a stupid comment obviously reflects this. They build the biggest bulk carriers, container ships and tankers in the world. They build more of them and in the shortest time than any other shipyard in the world. The quality of the workmanship is also second to none.
Ok, electronics. Yes they do have very cheap labour up there, don't they? I agree fully.
Yes in some countries they do. Not though in Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan or South Korea where most of the high tech electronics are made. Where is the computer you are now typing on made?
Is this why you're no longer a trader:
It was a means to an end. I had no intension of being a currency dealer or accountant for the rest of my life. Those qualifications have come in handy though especially in making my savings work for me. Pilot’s tend to be very bad at making good investment choices but to date I have been very fortunate. It is also a comfort knowing that if I loose my license or medical tomorrow, I have something to fall back on. Do you?
The SGD was about USD .50 in 1990. It's been as high as about USD.73 around '96 and is back down to around .59 now.
You have just proved my point in my previous post.
The main goal of my mainly tongue-in-cheek statements was an answer to triple 7's moronic mumblings. Personally I think this guy is fishing for bites
He may very well being fishing for bites. Personally I don’t care. I was responding to the dribble coming out of your mouth or a*se as the case may be.
:yuk: :E

[Z Force]

And what's happened to the original thread?

[404 Titan]

Jizzmonkey

Yes I do. Obviously you don’t. While there is a larger disparity between high and low income earners, the average is about 15 – 20% higher than in Australia. Even more when you take into account the much lower income tax we enjoy up here.

Now back to the original thread. It’s typical of the dictatorship regime in Singapore to single out someone for standing up for his or her basic rights.
:yuk: :*

[itchybum]

404 Titan Not...in Singapore...where most of the high tech electronics are made Where does this production take place in Singa??? I've been there and they don't have enough room to swing a cat. And if they did, they'd rather eat the poor moggy anyway. Production? Nothing bigger than a pot of noodle and fish-head soup.

Speaking of cats you're flat out finding one with it's tail intact up that way because they locals all cut them off, since, i'm told, the cat is considered a perfect creature and they can't stand this. Civilised hey??? Bit hard to swing a cat with no tail.

I guess you haven’t been to or seen the Hyundai shipyards Well I was hoping you would never corner me on that because, shamefully, I have to admit I haven't been to the shipyards. Does a tour of the Boeing Plant in Seattle count?
build more...in the shortest time than any other...The...workmanship is also second to none. Can anyone else see the obvious contradiction in these statements?

Second to none. Nor 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, etc, etc, etc... And how do you know this, anyway? Have you "sailed" one yourself?

Why is it they can copy the biggest hyundai video-piracy wrist-watch-copying, bear-bile milking, tiger-testicle chomping, rhino-horn-crushing, high-tech, bulk-carrier shipyard, pinnacle of civilisation in the world but they can't erase the fetid stench of their cities or stop people hawking bright green TB-riddled gollies left right and centre? I wish I lived in Asia...

You do realise that to manufacture chipsets or SDRAM is to simply set-up a machine in a plant, switch it on and install a slave-wages monkey to jump up and down screaming and throwing dung whenever the fan belt flies off... don't you? Were you picturing hundreds of thousands of orientals hunched over soldering irons in a room the size of my closet? ...and eating satayed cat-tails for lunch?

All this industrial determination up there is purely shlonger-driven. They have a pathological envy of our wanger-size. That's why they'd rather use a hole in the ground than urinals side-by-side... the ultimate test of 'manhood'!! (and civilisation???)

I have something to fall back on. Do you? Yes I do and I'll let you in on it too. I call it Loss of Licence Insurance and Salary Continuance, to the age of 65. Now let's see... Lose me ticket and do I:

(a) go back to work at the bank looking after other peoples' money for another 20 years or

(b) sit on my fat white arse spending my own.

Now back to the original thread.
Now back to the original thread. It’s typical of the dictatorship regime in Singapore to single out someone for standing up for his or her basic rights.
Yes I agree, they are @rseholes.

PS jizzmonkey what's an SOH??? :ok:

balance, how's that... I go to bed thinking we're all done here only to find....

[balance]

Yup, cat fightin' and bitch slappin' good fun! Yee haaa!

Keep up the good work, fellas!

[404 Titan]

itchybum

Ouch:ouch:

Now I know why you call yourself itchybum. The amount of diarrhea that comes out of you’re a*se is staggering. :yuk:

If you are serious, which I doubt, we can debate this on another thread instead of hi-jacking this one. :ok:

Jizzmonkey

I don’t disagree with you. Read again what I said. I used the term “AVERAGE” for a very good reason. The general rule in this town is if you have a qualification, i.e. engineer, accountant, teacher etc you earn very good money. If you don’t you’re screwed. There are people who earn obscene amounts of money and there are those that work their backsides off to put food on the table. Show me a country where this doesn’t happen to some degree or other.

Now lets get back to this original thread shall we.

:ok:

[Kaptin M]

"Show me a country where this doesn’t happen to some degree or other."

Show me a country where its "Leader" feels so threatened by a "union organiser" that it resorts to expelling him.

If we are to believe what we've heard, Captain Goh was "ex-communicated" for showing up the executive level of ALPA-S as being SQ management puppets, and NOT acting in the best wishes of the membership - the pilots.
For having blown the whistle, Captain Goh was singled out by LKY for "special teatment".

Whilst his (LKY's) communist style of standover tactics worked on the developing Singapore of the 60's and 70's, most educated Singaporeans feel that they have now matured sufficiently enough to be treated as ADULTS rather than CHILDREN (an analogy LKY uses to describe Singaporean citizens).

Singapore is NOT a democracy. The serialised voting ballots attest to that, and any area that shows a swing away from the incumbent government is financially punished.
Let's talk a bit more about this shall we, 404?
Not though in Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan or South Korea where most of the high tech electronics are made. Where is the computer you are now typing on made? In almost EVERY country - including those you have mentioned - the answer is CHINA.
Singapore used to produce some electronic goods, transistor radios, etc, but that was when their coolies were cheaper than the rest of the developed world.
Once Singapore "arrived", and the Sing dollar appreciated, the contracts were awarded to countries where unskilled labour was a cent or two cheaper.

Poor old LKY is clutching at straws if he thinks he can resolve the whole SQ problem by expelling Captain Goh - he was only the most visible, vocal mouthpiece for the seething mass of underlying pilot discontent.

[itchybum]

the dribble coming out of your mouth or a*se The amount of diarrhea that comes out of you’re a*se is staggering Having resorted to this form of defence, I think most people would see you as having capitulated, and most ungraciously at that.

And why do you have a fixation with my @rse??? If I ever drop my wallet on the floor around you, remind me to kick it across to the wall before I bend over to get it...

Fairly unimpressive the way 404 lowers herself to personal abuse in an effort to sink the boot in, then, without adding anything constructive, patronisingly signs off with:Now lets get back to this original thread shall we.Anyway, technically this IS still the original thread. Original topic? that's another thing but I don't expect that sort of discenrment from the above after seeing the style so far.

KaptinM, handing over... this was fun for a while but I need more to stimulate me. Sorry Jizzm-onkey and balance. Get someone with more style and less senseless personal abuse I'll try harder.

I notice the 777 wally, to use the precedent of KM's own terminology, has slid off back under a rock.

As for the original TOPIC, I stand by my original view. They are @rseholes up there and not just the Penile Minister and SQ management either. I sympathise with the drivers that have to put up with that life.

[404 Titan]

Kaptin M

I think you have taken me out of context. If you read my posts carefully I agree with you. That last comment of mine "Show me a country where this doesn’t happen to some degree or other." was in regards to wage earners not the politicians. Yes you are correct about the fortunes of the Singapore economy. They became too expensive and a lot of the work went to China or Malaysia. Since then it would appear that the Singapore government has tried to push the value of the SGD down. Whether this revitalizes the Singapore tech sector is yet to be seen. It will certainly revitalize their waterfront industry, something Singapore does very well, which has been feeling the pinch of late from Malaysia.

itchybum

You and I may have got off to a misunderstanding. From reading your last post you and I may be in agreement. Your first post led me to believe that you agreed with what the Singapore Government has done. Maybe you would like to clarify your comments further. If infact we are in agreement then I apologize for my attack. What has transpired in regards to Captain Ryan Goh is disgusting and shows the length the dictatorship in Singapore will go to squash any dissent.

[BlueEagle]

Your knowledge of Singapore is a bit scant isn't it?

Some of the higher high tech stuff did move away but there are still acres and acres of industrial estates producing a very wide range of goods, an average of 200 ships in any one day sitting off shore unloading and loading cargo is testimony to this! (Not to mention the trade figures!)

Oh, by the way, the cats are BORN with weird tails, we have two with us, they are definitely NOT mutilated at birth, it's in their genes!:ok:

And I agree, the treatment of Capt Ryan Goh is quite stone age and disgusting.

[Traffic]

No Tail of Two Cities.

For anyone interested in facts ....they are called Manx cats and are quite common in Singapore and Hong Kong. I assume they originated in the Isle of Man.

LKY only picks on people who can't fight back. In this case they pull the guy's right of abode.

You would be surprised to find how many fair burghers of Singapore and SQ pilots hold residence in another country. This was also a shot across their bow.

If someone really wants to show LKY for the pious hypocrite he is then start digging around some of the property deals at the back of Orchard Road.

[Whiskery]

The number of local SQ pilots joining China Airlines would suggest "Island" residents are starting to think for themselves and are no longer intimidated by the LKY bully boy tactics. :ok:

[Taildragger]

What surprises me about this thread is that people are surprised by the Pilot in question being kicked out because of his agitation.
It's well known that the long arm of LKY reaches into every pocket, HDB Block, Politician, Singaporean Citizen, Expat, the lot.
He has, in particular, got a thing about SQ Expats, and firmly believes the airline can do without them.
That is a huge debate, but while he thinks like this and while he is the puppetmaster, you have got to play his game.
That is the case whether you work for SQ, or any other company.
keep your mouth shut, and never, ever, respond to the Taxi driver who takes you from A to B in Singapore, when he grumbles about the "Guvmin Lah" Keep your head down and your ,mouth shut....the money is good, and it's a free currency to change into homeside dosh. I must say that if you cannot submerge your thoughts in this way, do not go to Singapore. The idea that it is a free country is utterly false, and I would say that just about every expat has a story to tell.

[lame]

New Aussie life for banished pilot

21:12 AEST Sun May 2 2004


AP - A Malaysian-born pilot who angered Singapore's founding father, Lee Kuan Yew, has begun a new life in Australia after the government ordered him to leave by May 1.

"There is no regret - bit of mixed feelings - more sadness than anything else," former Singapore Airlines pilot Ryan Goh told reporters before flying to Perth late on Saturday.

Well-wishers saw Goh off at the airport security gate, while his 12-year-old daughter, Kelly, fought back tears as she kissed her father goodbye.

After 26 years in Singapore, Goh will live with his wife and their three other children in Perth. Kelly will stay in Singapore to continue her schooling.

Goh's troubles began after he led a vote in November to dismiss pilot union leaders who had accepted proposals by Singapore Airlines - which is majority-owned by the government - to slash wages, lay off staff and force employees to take unpaid leave.

Lee angrily confronted Goh at a meeting with pilots in February, accusing him of stirring up trouble within the union.

Lee ruled Singapore from its independence in 1965 until he stepped aside in 1990, but still has considerable clout under the title of senior minister. Days after the meeting with Lee, Goh was ordered to leave Singapore.

Authorities branded him an "undesirable immigrant," and Goh said he now cannot enter Singapore without applying for permission.

Singapore banks recalled his loans and seized his children's trust funds in "a knee-jerk reaction" to the expulsion order, Goh said.

Singapore Airlines fired Goh last month after he lost two appeals to keep his residency rights. The airline agreed to fly him and his family to Australia, he said.

Other airlines have offered to hire Goh, but his options are limited because he needs advance permission to transit through Singapore - a regional air hub, he said.

"Was I a scapegoat? It depends on who you ask really," Goh said, without elaborating.

Singapore Airlines laid off hundreds of workers after suffering its first quarterly loss in last year's second quarter, then imposed a 16.5 per cent pay cut and unpaid leave.

The airline rebounded with a record $S306 million ($A250 million)) profit in the following quarter - which frustrated some employees who felt they had sacrificed too much.

[itchybum]

Great .