Provision of ATS ?....... PIK ATC (Merged)

[Mr. Sloan]

Is there any truth in the rumour, that PIK maybe looking to NATS
to provide ATS at the tower again ?

It would be good to see NATS back at EGPK after 13-odd years.

Mr. Sloan

[Legs11]

Not just NATS sloanie;) :) :ok:

[pikman]

Heard a rumour that SERCO are having a look around in the near future with regard to bidding for the contract at PIK.
Does anyone know anything about this?
Maybe NATS need to pull their fingers out if they don't want to miss the boat on this one!;)

[rogerirrelevant]

Rumour circulating that SERCO are preparing a bid for EGPK ATC contract.
Anyone else heard this or know anything about it?

[Mr. Sloan]

"Heard a rumour that SERCO are having a look around in the near future with regard to bidding for the contract at PIK."


I most certainly hope that your are wrong pikman . I feel that
would definitely be a retrograde step, with regard to the provision of ATS at EGPK !



Mr. Sloan:sad:

[Red Dragon]

Mr Sloan,

Why?


Red Dragon

[off watch]

Red Dragon
Try entering "SERCO" into the forum search & read the comments about their management style - then you'll understand !

[Red Dragon]

Off Watch,

I fully understand how Serco operate, I work for them and have done for a considerable length of time. I think you'll find that the search results will only produce a series of opinions from uneducated NATS controllers who will believe anything they hear and believe the only provider worth talking about is NATS. What they fail to undertand is that they are in the "business" of ATC now and are now in the same boat as Serco ..ie having each contract make a profit. And as I've said on here before we all have the same license and do the job to the same standards. As for the way Serco do business, take a look at the company as a whole, their strength and their successes and then compare that to NATS. Serco win and retain contracts on merit and a sound track record going back decades. Naturally there are the odd characters who beilieve they have been hard done by, but they exist in every organisation.
A more open mind is needed here me thinks.

Red Dragon

[off watch]

Red Dragon
"And as I've said on here before we all have the same license and do the job to the same standards"

True , but not everyone is paid the same

"Serco win and retain contracts on merit and a sound track record going back decades"

So, they lost the Liverpool contract because .... ?

[Push me Pull you]

Seems that NATS have a golden opportunity to return to PIK and implement centralised approach in Scotland.serving all three airports..single McSky and all that...huge efficiency gains for ATC and the real beneficiary is the customer...wake up NATS...

over @ out

[Findo]

Seems that NATS have a golden opportunity to return to PIK and implement centralised approach in Scotland.serving all three airports

Absolutely no chance

[niknak]

Could there possibbly be a bit of confusion here?

Until recently a firm called Omniport had a minority shareholding in PIK, they recently sold that to the major shareholder, but retained the contract to manage PIK on behalf of the owners.

Omniport recently bought a majority shareholding in Norwich Airport, and alledgedly, they are seriously investigating the contracting out the provision of ATC.

A formal tender document has yet to be issued, but both NATS and Serco have sent their top neddies round to sniff out the place, and it's my understanding that Serco are going balls out to get the job, as it'll be their biggest civilian regional airport contract in Europe (aside from Luxembourg) if they do.
I understand that NATS management are also under pressure to win the contract, and from what has been said by them so far, their bid will be very competitive.

Apparently we'll know "later this year" :hmm: :zzz:

[caniplaywithmadness]

The PIK contract would be great for NATS however a centralised approach function for Scotland (or PF, PH, PK) would not be ideal, as NATS would cease to be competitive for the Aerodrome contracts at those airfields and no doubt the likes of Serco could come in and bid a whole lot lower.

It works well in London and the SE, but McNerc won't have the space for a Scottish TC and I reckon that's the way NATS want to keep it.

[Push me Pull you]

Red Dragon
"And as I've said on here before we all have the same license and do the job to the same standards...
yes very true...in terms of technical standards all ATCOs should meet and apply the same safety management criteria in the terms of their licence

Lets not kid ourselves that the service provision, the standard of of the service that ATC delivers to the customer (who pays the bills)does not continue to vary significantly not just between units but sometimes across watches in area centres/tracons etc

Nats as you say is in the commercial world and learns fast..they had the sense to involve the customer base as shareholders.....you can get any contract if you bid low enough..this then means costs are cut as opposed to to controlled...end result things are done on the cheap or not done at all if they are not considered "essential"...the airport operator and the service provider hide behind their duty to provide the most cost effective service to their shareholders. Who suffers ? just the customer as he gets second rate service...but who cares about that as long as its cheap to run and the shareholders are happy....

and so the cycle starts...technical standards are maintained perhaps but service standards decline..but who cares that a fine profession is declining too because at the end of the day it will be cheaper..whilst all this happens the ATCO will adopt the posture of a lemming and explain away poor service as managements fault...ah so it goes on..

meanwhile quietly in the background the customers who pay the bills will develop airborne systems to restore service standards..guess what guys it was important to the customer after all..but now things have changed..the automation is cheaper than the ATCO and we need the most cost effective solution..

try thinking outside the box folks..maybes the NATS and SERCOs of this world should collaborate not compete because the most cost effective solution i suggest looks like a call centre in India paying £100 pm

PmPy to standby

caniplaywithmadness

Vision.sir.

Cant provide a more efficient service because there is no room in a building that hasnt left the foundation stage...unreal..
maybes if its all too difficult NATS should ask SERCO to do it because you can bet your next pay rise that if you did they would have no trouble in finding premises..you could build a TC anywhere and cost effectively too.. Glasgow perhaps

...airport contracts not a problem in SE so why not in Scotland..The new Nats should learn the can do concept instead of cant do because...or those call centres in India will take over....and u know who would get those contracts..

regards your average customer PmPy

[Chilli Monster]

PmPyNats as you say is in the commercial world and learns fast..they had the sense to involve the customer base as shareholders..... I thought the way the 'customer' got involved was it offered the biggest chunk of change for the company - not the way you describe it.

'Chicken & Egg' springs to mind ;)

And for what it's worth. As I sit here in California on my five weeks paid leave from Serco I have no problems with them as a company at all. Happy squabbling guys :)

[Findo]

caniplaywithmadness - the new Prestwick centre won't have room for a Scottish TC ? Completely wrong.

[spekesoftly]

Back in the early 80s, the Glasgow ATC building had a fairly extensive 'make-over', including a new and much enlarged Radar Room. It's generous size was allegedly to accommodate a future combined APC/Rad function for Glasgow, Prestwick and Edinburgh Airports.

[PPRuDe]

Chilli Monster

Mildly disagree with your observations re NATS customer relations...Nats forged strong links before privatisation and the airlines did not bring a lot of readies to the party..Nats now has to listen to these airlines now they are sharehoders..

Your parting comment about squabbling sums things up..having spent a considerable time reading some controller postings I am firmly of the belief that had the aeroplane had been invented before Rome Burned then NERO would surely have been an ATCO

Negative comment seems to be genetic with a fatalistic trend to castigate their employers, their colleagues and managers..in my opinion this damages their profession and does nothing to prepare them for the future demands of the aviation industry.

The NEROs are fiddling the same tune over and over again and blaming their management for every issue under the sun...its time some of these highly paid, intelligent individuals delivered constructive contributions to their industry and ensured their future before the much alienated management find a cheaper back box to replace them..what happened to the flight engineers..the atc engineers.etc

Having got this off my chest I am off to investigate the costs of setting up one of PmPys call centres..I may not be an ATCO but I know a huge potential in global terms when I see it..Thanks to all the NEROs whose ongoing activities continue to erode the barriers to competition and open the door to serious competition.

Only kidding..or am I..you will never know....

regards to the good guys you are still the majority

[royman]

Serco's contract at Liverpool was not renewed. The owners, Peel Holdings, decided to take ATC inhouse to save money.
After all thats been posted in recent months on here about Liverpool I wonder if it was the right decision.