Ground weather radar

[Fuji Abound]

The routing was Norwich to MAY, plenty of CBs around with blue sky in between or a broken overcast; the TAF mentioned the risk of small hail.

It wasn’t too much of a problem to work between the downpours until reaching Southend. The rain looked torrential to the west and just as I was about to ask Southend who were providing a LARS service offered something like we have a lot of weather out to the west on your track but it looks clear to the east. I always find Southend provide a great service.

Their weather radar was correct and working to the east until around Tunbridge Wells provided a good point to get back on track. Gatwick radar was as helpful as ever but pointed out with their new radar no weather information was any longer available.

I cant remember when I last asked Gatwick for some weather information in flight – maybe a couple of years ago – but it has obviously all changed.

I am interested to know whether this information is no longer available to some controllers, why this should be so, and whether or not there is any way of knowing which control areas can provide weather information and which can’t.

It seems to me a retrograde step for this information to have been lost but I am sure there is a good counter argument.

[FlyingForFun]

I'm sure this subject would be better in the ATC forum than here... the guys in there are likely to know the answer, rather than just guess, as I'm about to do...

Primary radar will often pick up a return from weather - it's just the nature of the beast. And I don't think it takes too much experience for a controller to be able to recognise a return that is from weather, and inform pilots as appropriate.

Could it be that Gatwick have turned off their primary radar? Would make sense - I can't see they get too many aircraft in there without transponders. But, like I said, just a guess.

FFF
----------------

[360BakTrak]

It all depends on the filters within the processor.......some radars are better at filtering out weather clutter than others while some can switch this facility on-and-off as required.
As far as I know, and I might be wrong, all SSR equipped units have to have primary displayed as well as secondary.
A radar service will be limited by the controller when the service is being provided using secondary radar only. Dont know if this is applicable within TMA's and airways though.
:confused:

[slim_slag]

Was flying around DEN once talking to Approach who had a nice fancy dopler radar setup and they missed totally some very nasty CBs that I could see.

Likewise talking with SOCAL they thought I was heading into some level 2's where there wasn't any such thing.

Nice when it works, which it usually seems to, but I think ATC needs the right kit and it's not widely available.

[Fuji Abound]

FFF you are correct and I nearly posted their but i thought some of the replies would be of interest to us lot and I am afraid I am guilty of not checking the controller forum very often.

It would be very intersting to hear from any controllers though as I know a number do post on this forum.

Many thanks.

[eyeinthesky]

From an Area Radar (London Control) point of view (and Gatwick Approach use these facilities):

Weather returns are filtered out by the processors as they cause an unnecessary amount of clutter which impinges upon our ability to see traffic and also loads up the displays and stops them showing the important bits. We can get an idea of where the weather is after a while as the aircraft tend to avoid that bit of the sky... We also have access to the MIST display which shows the rainfall radar from the Met Office. But this is historical really and just shows us the general areas of highest rainfall. It does not allow us to decide where to send aircraft.

The main point in all this is that if you need to avoid weather: ASK before you turn, and DO IT EARLIER rather than later. If we are relying upon radar rather than vertical separation and you suddenly pipe up that you need to go right 20 degrees that can cause a tightening of the sphincter!

With regard to primary radar, we still have it and it is displayed long with the secondary. NATS wanted to withdraw primary cover on the en-route radars on the grounds that all our traffic has transponders, but the military and others objected on safety grounds and it is maintained.

[Warped Factor]

Weather is filtered from all the radar displays in use at TC, with no option for it to be switchable on/off by ATC. Has been the case since TC started back in '93.

So no advice or info on avoiding weather from Heathrow SVFR, Thames, Gatwick, Essex or Luton I'm afraid.

WF.

[englishal]

About time we got a service like AnywhereWX in Europe. I'd pay for it (depending on whether it was inflated "EU aviation" prices or not):D

http://www.anywheremap.com/pages/awm_anywherewx.htm

[Pie Man]

The Watchman Rasterscan displays at RAF LARS units have weather filtered out only very,very heavy weather can be seen using 'background video'. The old displays could be 'tweaked' to show some weather but with new technology we have lost that option.

Pie Man

[A and C]

Now this is were the Mode S will help , if NATS will put in the equipment you will be able to put realtime WX radar pictures onto the map display of your GPS via a data link.

The system is up and running in the USA.

[BEXIL160]

A word of caution here...

The FAA, a Government Organisation, provides virtually ALL the ATC services in the USA.

The FAA has access to the excellent NEXRAD weather radar system, and presumably will make it available to all via the delights of Mode S.

All well and good, except...

NATS was privatised in 2001. It isn't a Government Organisation anymore (although they do hold a share). What incentive has NATS to provide ANYTHING to GA? It already pays the MoD for what little Met Office info it recieves (MIST), and isn't about to share it with anyone not prepared to PAY. It's a private organisation.

Hate to say "I told you so", but I and my ATCO colleagues did say that this sort of thing would happen.. :{

Rgds BEX

[Warped Factor]

Likewise, don't expect anything like the FAA's TIS service (http://www.faa.gov/and/and300/datalink/fis_ga/tisgws.htm) in the future unless you've got your credit card handy :(

WF.