Bad Passengers........

[BRL]

I remember reading what someone had written in another thread recently about taking someone up and them being a pain in the bum. Can't remember the finer points but I am sure some of you have taken up 'the pax from hell', so, tell us all about it here if you wouldn't mind...... :)

[Monocock]

I have actually decided I can't bear passengers full stop. Passengers who can fly sit there mentally criticising everything you do and non-flying passengers sit there asking a string of annoying questions!

More seriously though, I did have one passenger who I nearly had to smack in the chops.

He was 9 years old and his daddy was a client of mine. I promised to take him flying which I duly did. He asked if he could have a go and I agreed once I had explained what effects the movement of the stick had. He nodded as I explained (clearly not taking it in).

I told him he had control and he pulled back on the stick so hard that I'm surprised the elevator didn't fall off. I took control and politely bollocked him. Once things had calmed down he took control again and did averagely for 10 minutes as I kept a lookout.

On the return to the strip I told him it was time for me to take control and he woldn't let me!!! He absolutely refused to let go of the stick exclaiming that he could land it as daddy had flight sim and he'd had loads of goes and never crashed yet! (as if that was supposed to fill me with confidence).

I expalined there was no way on God's earth that he would be landing the plane and that if he didnt let go of the stick I would have to tell his Dad that he had misbehaved. This didn't work. I told him that i'd have to make him sit in the back but his retort was "just you try". I told him that there was nothing else I could do than to call a MayDay and say that I had been hijacked!! (by a 9 year old)!!

He just stared ahead gripping the stick with both hands and screaming at me every time I tried to prise his hands off it.

The only thing I could do to get him to stop was to say, "Well that's it then. I'll be off, good luck".

He looked at me strangely and said "wadya mean". I replied "Well I don't carry 2 parachutes and if you're landing this then I reckon I'm safer taking the parachute" as I went for the door handle.

He let go, started crying, and grabbed my arm within a split second!

We landed within 5 minutes and his father wanted to know what the tears were for when his son jumped out. The boy replied "I really hate him Daddy, he's horrid"........................

What would you have done? This boy was obsessed.

Moral of the story.........make sure you know the kid you're taking flying. There are some pretty horrible ones out there!!

[Andy_R]

Nice one Monocock

Thanks for cheering up a dreary afternoon at work :ok:

[Maxflyer]

I hope you got an order out of his Father before the trip from hell!!!

[Penguina]

:eek: :eek: :eek:

My God! That brat sounds a little abnormal to me. Remind me never to take a kid without really having a parachute...

[360BakTrak]

Bad Passengers........my old man. 30+ years as an Aerodynamicist and he cant stand flying in light aircraft! Doesn't trust em'....even though he knows in incredible detail how and why these metal things fly!:p

[Mr Wolfie]

Monocock - that's the funniest post I've read in ages.:D

Brightened up a very dull afternoon.

Mr. W

[Monocock]

The worst bit is that I still have dealings with his pa and there are frequent hints about "When might I be able to take their daughter flying".

If she's anything like her bro' then i'll be searching for a size SMALL straight jacket on ebay before she comes near my plane.

[mazzy1026]

Possibly the funniest thread in a while - what an annoying little b**tard - I think next time an inverted flight may be in order, with no seatbelt and the accidental unclipping of the canopy :E

[IO540]

While this kid was a right brat, it has to be said that children can get frightened and nobody should fly with a child in the front seat (especially if there is no other adult in the plane) unless they are pretty sure about the kid's mental stability.

I wouldn't take my children up alone (oldest is 10) yet.

[bookworm]

I remember reading an accident report from the US many years ago in which a father was flying with his son who had recently been hospitalised for mental illness. Unknown to the father, the son had stopped taking his medication.

In the cruise, the son suddenly and unexpectedly pulled the mixture control to ICO. The father, somewhat surprised, managed to keep the engine going by restoring the normal state of affairs. Not satisfied with this, the son then reached across, turned off the magnetos, removed the key and threw it out of a window.

The father made a satisfactory dead-stick landing, AFAIR with no injuries sustained by either party.

[IO540]

Actually, bookworm, the same situation could arise with adults too :O

I would think there are more mentally unstable adults than there are mentally unstable children.

Thankfully it happens rarely, if ever, otherwise nobody would want to instruct. But with no FDR, no CVR, one can never tell.

[FlyingForFun]

Apologies if you've heard this one before - I'm sure I must have told it a dozen times, at least half of those on this forum.

An instructor once told me of a trial lesson he did - the woman grabbed hold of the controls immediately after take-off, pressed the push-to-talk button, and started reciting the Lords Prayer over and over. He had to physically wrestle the controls from her and return for a very prompt landing. Once safely on the ground, he asked her what she thought she was doing (although I don't think he phrased it quite so politely), and she told him that the only reason she wanted to fly was to be closer to God. He suggested that she might like to find an alternative way of getting closer to God next time.....

I think I must have been fortunate not to have had any bad stories about pax so far. Many of my pax have been pilots, though, and those that haven't have all been close friends and family - people I know very well. And no children, except in the back seat with their parents. That will all change once I find myself a job as an instructor, though, I'm sure :eek:

FFF
--------------

[BRL]

Interesting to see IO540 will not take his kids up even thought hey are 10.

How about everyone else? What age have you taken your youngest up at..?

[Wide-Body]

Ok it’s time to disagree with the general tone of the thread. I LOVE taking people up for their first flight. I am so privileged to be able to fly, to share this is a huge blessing. I fortunately own shares in a Chipmunk and YAK 52, also operating a Rallye. The amount of fun, joy and understanding this has given has outweighed the one Bad experience I had with a PAX. My own fault and I’m sure that no one wants to hear my day of making a T^&t of myself. Over the years there are now 3 ATPL’s as a direct result of a pax flight with me. (Lost aBl**%y good estate agent and Bank Manager as a result).

Most Bad pax can be attributed to a poor attitude by the pilots. My experience to qualify this statement is from flying frightened Pax in gliders to being part of a fear of flying course in a pax jet. I almost feel incumbent so show friends and acquaintances the privilege of flight that I treasure so much.

Regards to all

That old romantic called WIDE

[Mr Wolfie]

Mr Wolfie previously said:

"Monocock - that's the funniest post I've read in ages".

Actually I've changed my mind. I've just read the Survival Kits thread started by MLS-12D and that is even (unintentionally) funnier.:D

[FNG]

Cheers, Wide, you old softie you. I must confess that I enjoyed Monocock's merry tale, however.

360 Baktrak: my dad too! He's not an aerodynamicist, but he is an engineer. He knows all the theory, but is still convinced that flying is the work of Beelzebub. He's been up with me once, and insisted on going straight back down. My mum, by contrast, loves it, and would have me flying inverted rejoins if she had her way. My wife hates flying generally, but likes flying in small aeroplanes. Does a very good hostie job on longish trips, but won't go upside down (if airline pilot anecdotes are to be believed, real hosties don't mind which way up they go).

I haven't had any any dodgy passengers, although occasionally I get mildly cheesed off by friends who enjoy the flight but then insist on playing up the idea that it's all horrendously scary when talking to other friends who are dubious about getting into small aeroplanes.

[kabz]

I took my daughter (age 7) up and she loved it, though she kept trying to hurry me through the runup and pre-takeoff checks.

Once in the air, despite my attempts to level off smoothly, loud 'rollercoaster-style' screams came over the headphones.

The final insult to my piloting skills were a series of complaints about how bad the landing was ... :{

[140cherokee]

Have flown with my daughter since she was six (now 10). She even came along for dual lessons during my PPL, happily sat in the back reading a book whilst I did circuits! She's probably the best passenger I have; never complains, loves turbulence, gentle on the controls, and thinks all my landings are wonderful!

140

[Monocock]

My two (3 and 5) love flying and the oldest has been coming with me since she was 2. I even bought her a log book which we have filled in each time she has been!

So far she has amassed 76 hrs as PIC


(That's Passenger In Childseat in her language):D

[mazzy1026]

Sorry to bear off track a little but I am really curious as to the regulations on letting other people "have a go" of the controls (if you are a PPL holder. Are you allowed to let them have a quick touch ?

[Evo]

Are you allowed to let them have a quick touch ?


Yes - I find that letting first-time passengers discover that the aeroplane is fairly idiot proof and stays in the air despite me rather than because of me gets them to relax a bit. The more confident also get demos of a stall and PFL - the "worst" things that can happen to us. That way they can understand that we really aren't flying around seconds away from a Daily Mail style crash into a school or busload of nuns...

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

Let's not go THERE (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112205) again! ;)

[IO540]

BRL

I have been up with lots of people and all appear to have really enjoyed the flying; I never had any problems, and that includes my children who have been up a number of times. Generally I prefer to fly with somebody rather than alone.

However the sole pilot is responsible for the plane and for getting the whole lot safely back and that applies regardless of any passenger emergency; adults in that situation would be left alone to look after themselves but kids cannot.

If you are a single adult in a plane with children and something happened, then you could have a problem dealing with it.

Obviously it depends on the kids' maturity, and there is only one way to establish that. But there is no doubt there is a lot more responsibility involved. A number of GA accidents (obviously only ones where somebody survived to tell the tale) have been linked to pilot distraction by passengers; I recall reading one report recently where a pilot appears to have completely lost the plot due to passengers being sick, etc.

I find the biggest problem by far with passengers is something completely different: you (the pilot) may have a few days to spare, but they need to get back to work the next day and you cannot risk a flight in anything resembling suspect weather. On two occassions I nearly bought an airline ticket for a passenger (the cost would have been huge) but in the end we flew back the next day. Such is life if flying abroad without a full IR...

[BRL]

Hi there. I wasn't having a go, honestly. I know lots of pilots who have taken young children up and they are comfortable with that. The reason I find it interesting is I think you are the first pilot I know who does this and I was wondering if this was the same with other pilots. :)

[stiknruda]

One of the babes in the office where I used to work, saw the picy of my Pitts on my desk and told me how much she'd like to "loop the loop".

A few days later I find myself house-sitting a nice S2A with an open front seat. I remember office babe and invite her down to come out to play.

Introduce her to the aeroplane, brief on the sortie, strap her in (one of the few pleasures in tandem aircraft) and taxi out, pre-flight check including a final check of her harness and off we go. Up to FL nosebleed and a last check to make sure that she is ready:

We do a gentle barell roll, "More, more!", through the headset.

Loop - she still wants more. I start running through quite a nice positive G sequence that I use to warm up

Loop into P loop into roll off the top into split S into stall turn into a super-slow roll into 1/2 reverse Cuban into up 45 into a 2 turn spin.

She's still happy but I feel it is time to head back. We are chatting away and I tell her that we'll be landing very shortly and identify the strip for her. At this moment I can see/feel (against my toes) her arse squirming around.

We land taxi back to the hangar and I shut down. I tell her to remain where she is (tube and fabric aeroplanes are very vulnerable to slightly dizzy pax). As I stand on the lower wing and lean in to help her unstrap I realise that BOTH seatbelts, crotchbelt and shoulder harnesses have been unbuckled and then re-buckled wherever was most opportune.

"Err, the seatbelts, have you been fiddling with them?"

" Yes, of course," she replied somewhat indignantly, "everyone knows that after take-off you can undo them and then you must do them up again for landing. I have been in a plane :( before!"

"You've been in an AEROPLANE before?"

"Yes, me and Denise from the typing pool went to Ibiza with Monarch and that is what the Captain told us!"

Just as well we didn't try anything negative:eek:


Needless to say I know let my front seat pax know of this tale SO that it couldn't happen again



Stik

[skydriller]

Stik,

That is an absolute classic:} :} Do tell me this was a Blond babe, as that is a classic blond moment.....

SD..

PS.. do you mind if I tell everyone I know about that one.....with suitable embelishment naturally:D :E

[FNG]

Ha! Great story, Stik, and just think, if we'd split-S you off into a "People in Purple Aeroplanes" Forum, so few of us would get to hear it (although I for one would be prepared to buy some purple paint in order to join the forum).


PS: [In annoying arsy safety-nazi voice] "Oi! that's HaSell with an S!""

[Wide-Body]

Ok, it’s confession time. Last post written after one night in Bangkok, so that explains the sentimentality (at least did not phone girly and told her I love her 50 times!). To go back to the original question of bad pax, I have only had one. It was such an experience for both of us it is worth repeating. It was 10 years ago but it still makes me cringe.

It was the day of the local club airshow, with all local flying to be concluded by 1300. I had been baited by bigmouth boyfriend of a mate of mine about pilots, flying etc, etc. He was a computer programmer who believed people should be run by Machines. Got to airfield and had to do a tailwheel change, now running tight on time. Elect not to fly due time (god the boy has brains), get baited by computer bloke about pilots again decide to fly (No he doesn’t). Strap the mouth in without my usual lengthy safety, fun etc etc briefing. Taxi, Checks, go, get to 50 ft, mouth grabs controls. :uhoh: Before you say hit him with big stick, it was a tandem ac with him in the back. He says he feels safer holding on to the stick, I ask him to let go. Ac in an increasingly nose high attitude; speed dropping. Can not overpower controls, start to get very firm verbally, speed 45kts dropping. :{ Keep ball in the middle, now getting very verbally concise. After letting mouth know he has 5 seconds to live, get back controls. I land immediately and taxi in. Not fully paying attention, I nearly taxi into the back of a visiting 172 who had parked on a taxi way (no forward vis directly over the nose). :O

I made so many mistakes, that day and have gone over them many times (so no assassinations please). Lessons learned were many. Main points, NEVER rush, ALWAYS brief and finally ……………..better not say or all the computer programmers in the world will seek revenge. ;)

Please do not let the horror stories put you off flying pax especially youngsters (better they turn into pilots not programmers). :D

Regards to all

Wide.

Stik: a brilliant story, but worth taking seriously in my YAK

[mazzy1026]

Stik did you wallop her afterwards hehehehe :E

[LowNSlow]

The only baddish one I had was when I took my girlfriend up in my new (read ancient Cessna Aerobat) wonderplane. I was well aware that she is a nervous passenger in anything and everything.

Take off was normal, gentle climb out, gentle rate 0.25 turn onto downwind, then POP, the bloody oil filler flap catch let go and the flap started waving around right in front of her. Huge screams from the right hand seat and a death grip on my upper body as she threw herself across the cockpit and embraced me. I didn't think that I'd manage to fly the curved approach into Popham's 26 in this position so rapidly went into assurance mode and settled for a death grip on my right arm instead. The oil filler flap was flapping merrily around but we plopped onto the ground OK. Fair play to her, she let me taxi to the hangar, beg some gaffer tape (the catch was knackered) to tape the flap down and do another circuit with her. She went on to do a few lessons but it never really gelled with her.

[BRL]

Bloody hell Stick, that is an amazing story. I bet I am not the only one whose jaw hit the deck when reading it...!!!!:ooh:

[TC_LTN]

Not too long ago I was doing Luton Radar and was free-called by a callsign requesting zone transit. Unfortunately, because of the noise of the children screaming in the back of the aeroplane I couldn't make out many of the details or even be sure of the complete callsign. After several attempts I explained politely that unless the pilot could shut the kids up I would not be able to offer a service. He acknowledged this and still with his finger clasped to the PTT switch, turned around and told the kids to "shut the f##k up"! This seemed to do the trick and he continued to transmit, for the forth time, his flight details. Unfortunately, I was laughing so much that I had to ask him to repeat them two more times before I could offer him the transit clearance he was requesting!

[IO540]

This is why an intercom which has a pilot-only setting is really useful. Especially on longer flights where one can't really expect the passengers to listen to ATC conversations with great interest.

[--o-o-0-o-o--]

On the subject of passengers.....i sometimes think of "worse case scenarios", and what i'd do....... but i like to think that if there were any serious doubts on passenger's mental states...then hopefully i would sus' this out before taking them flying.
I brief my passengers ( i think quite well).... and emphasize the fact that they will probably feel turbulance etc, more in a relatively small aeroplane, compared to the airliner......the passengers then seem to revel in the fact that they have not been at all affected by the turbulance etc...and feel very happy with themselves.
I have never taken a child flying......my sister has two kids around 5 years old.......but to take kids up this young would worry me a little... ( screaming kids in the back.....not good ).

[BeechNut]

Kids have been the least of my worries. Two of my three sons (ages 12 and 14, started flying at 7 and 9), do a credible job of holding heading and altitude, doing good coordinated turns, etc.

I've also flown a ton of Young Eagles around with nary a hitch except for the odd kid that tries to clown away his nervousness in front of his mates.

The adults are another story! I wasn't sure if I should post this in the "when you nearly became another statistic thread", but it really is a passenger from hell story.

The location was CZBM, (Bromont, Quebec, Canada) where I kept my PA28-140 (and now keep my Beech C23). Nice 5000 ft of blacktop, LOC/DME approaches, etc, with a built-in permanent crosswind or so it seems at times.

This day was sunny, hot, and particularly gusty. Took up a brother-in-law's mate. Did a nice preflight briefing except I forgot one essential detail: those pedals on the floor are not footrests!

So we take off, gusting crosswind from the right. Plane starts to veer to the left of the centerline (bad: glider strip in use parallel to the blacktop), so I crank 'er in to the wind, when the bird promptly tries to settle out of ground effect back on to mother Earth. No problemo, probably just a downdraft. Build speed back up, crank her into the wind again, and once more: mush back to earth. Hmm. Well let me tell you, even at 70 mph 5000 ft goes by in a hurry.

Now we're at the sweating, "what the f**k is going on?" stage. No more runway to play with, sick PA28 refusing to climb and a scared stiff passenger on his first light plane ride. Scared so stiff in fact....wait a minute, why is his left leg straight out and rigid??? Yep. He was depressing full left rudder. I hadn't noticed the rudder skew because typically I'd be applying right pressure at full power anyway with my left leg dangling; I don't feel movement so much as pressure and I had normal pressure application. Sho' 'nuff, the ball was askew.

The idiot had me doing a full rudder sideslip to try and stay on runway centerline. Now a PA28 on a hot summer day is no great performer. One in a sideslip is simply going in one direction: back down to Earth! So I yell out a "get your f*****g leg off the pedals" and whack him a good on on the thigh. Off came the leg, and now the good ol' PA28 rediscovered what it was built for and lept into the air and into a normal climb. B*****d didn't even offer to pay a share of the fuel for his ride.

You can be sure that now my briefing includes a "keep your hands and FEET away from the controls at all times". On occasion I might invite someone trustworthy to try the controls in SMOOTH weather.

I won't go into the barfing passengers stories (never happened to me but a buddy that flies my plane had it happen to him). Learned long ago, with novice passengers: smooth air, rate 0.00001 turns, etc.

Funny too: your best mates that you'd take up flying even if they took a vow of poverty, always offer to pay for some of the fuel. The passengers from hell, go free (and only once!).

[Flash0710]

Evenings used to be spent after a hectic day by going out for a local flight and taking up anyone who frequented the airfield bar.

A father had asked me if i would mind taking his two daughters for a fly.

This is something i had no hesitation doing ( always for the ladies)

One of the daughters were how do we say " educationally Constrained) But this was in no way going to be a flight safety issue and both girls were placed in the rear of the ac

Told the girls we would pop up to canary wharf and the dome etc and get a nice early evening view of London.

Once clear of the field begin to talk to Thames requesting a couple of orbits of the dome etc trying to sound that i would be able to cope with all instructions recieved by him. Daughter in the back though was obviously having a good time and began to make cooing noises in the back which cut through all other forms of sound.

"Sounds like you are having a party up there" said the thames controller....

Hmm said i.

No drama tho and as wide says its all about what you make it.....

Enjoy

Keep em coming.:E

[Cat.S]

The only one that caused me any anxiety was a friend I took on a return trip from LPL to Shobdon. Gave him all the usual briefings before both take offs and even gave him a reminder on finals about not touching anything. Just as I was in the flare on the homecoming to LPL, (there was quite a strong crosswind so I was crabbing in) he decided to stretch his legs and pushed really hard on exactly the wrong rudder pedal!

[redsnail]

Since I have carted pax for a job it's a tad unfair. Got a lot of barfing and terrified punter stories. However, this kid takes the biscuit.
Scene, Cairns to Dunk Is in a Twotter. I'm the FO. Since the captain does all the paper work it's up to the FO to brief the pax. Since Dunk is a holiday destination I try to keep the brief short, fun and informative. I saw this 10 yo girl from a fair way back on the tarmac as they were approaching the aeroplane. Nothing like hearing "are we going in THAT little plane?" to really unerve the sometimes spooked punters. Remember, they've just walked past the Ansett 767s, 737s and one or two 146's. This little terror asked why we couldn't go in one of those. My reply "well, we could probably land it, but it would never take off again"
Any way, start doing the brief, you're all familiar with it, seat belts, life jackets, exits etc and all the time she's interrupting me and generally carrying on. (Thanks parents NOT for shutting her up). Zoom down the coast to Dunk and plonk it on the runway.
It's a shortish strip ~800m and so the brakes are used.
In the Twotter the big brake disks are exposed and easily touched if you have a go.
What does this little girl do when she gets off the aeroplane? Makes a bee line for the hot disks. I practically grabbed her and shooed her away from the wheels. Glared at her parents and shook my head. She would have lost all her skin on her hands and screamed her little lungs out if she had have touched them.

More importantly, she might have damaged the disk.

[QDMQDMQDM]

I took my eldest up in the back of the Cub aged only just four. Although I did take the stick out of the back, he can reach the throttle and open the door if he wants, so I slightly scared him stupid before we went up!

No problems so far and he loves going off camping with the plane. That's very special.

QDM

[loftustb]

I agreed to take a youth flying who had a "learning difficulty" - a boy whose behaviour in the air was perfect. Only after we landed did his "carer" tell me that his difficulty was spontaneous bouts of uncontrolable rage...........and she was amazed that he hadn't thrown a wobbly in the air. What on earth made her think that he was a suitable passenger in a 2-seat aircraft???????? Next time I'll ask more questions before agreeing.

[Flyin'Dutch']

Some interesting stories, but most passengers are obviously 'normal' folks. Or at least not more derailled than the pilots hauling them along!

:D

I love taking people if they are genuinely keen but flown enough folks around that just wanted to have a go so they can have the tick in the box.

As for kids, they are usually fine. The youngest I have taken any of mine was 5 months and that was just for a quick circuit to see that all was well (think mum was more worried about how nipper would be than nipper)

Make sure that they are safely restrained in a car seat or something of that ilk and if possible make them wear a headset (a proper one so that you can talk to them - funny concept for them so be ready for some funny questions)

One of my best moments so far was taking my then 2,5 year old up in the Condor and fly for a BBQ to Bourn. Singing all the way there and after landing she said: 'That was super' Snuggled up on the way back soundly asleep after T/O.

Will never forget those moments.

Have fun!

FD

[sunday driver]

Great stories !

I still have flashbacks of my daughter (then 8) grabbing the stick in the club T67 - fortunately at a significant altitude.

But

At risk of being a miserable b####r,
for my own protection, these days I would only take up other people's under 16's of either gender in a tandem cockpit, or in a 4 seater with another responsible adult along as well (preferably a matronly type).
A sad reflection on the times we live in.

S. Driver

[Aileron Roll]

Was giving a guy his first twin engine lesson afew years back, his Father who was an Aircraft Engineer came back seat for a ride. He spent most of the hour yelling Instructions at his son, and telling him a much better way to do things..........

After the flight he showed his son a 2 hour preflight inspection, covering everything I had missed !

After telling Dad he was not welcome for the next flight he let go with how little I new, I happily gave him the phone numbers for my boss, and the CAA, to voice his concerns.

I never heard back from either, but Son did very well when Dad did not fly back seat again !

[KCDW]

Over the past 4 years, I never had any problems with the girls (now 10 and 9) in the back… until yesterday in fact.

The difference? I rented my first ever plane with headset connections in the back, and thought they would enjoy the flight more if they could talk to me and Mrs KCDW.

What a nightmare. Screams, giggling, endless comments like “chocks away”, and “tally ho”, and “this is Pink airlines, and we are your hostesses today”, just as we are taking off and landing. Pointless questions, like: “are we in France yet?” (we were off to Duxford).

I lost count of the number of times I almost said “shut the f**k up”.

Mrs KCDW summed it up perfectly. “Children should be seen and not heard, and we’ve got it the other way round”!

[Aussie Andy]

I lost count of the number of times I almost said “shut the f**k up”. Along those lines, I am ashamed to admit on one occasion, with my two (then) 8 year olds in the back of a Warrior, and my wife asleep in the front, as we returned from a visit to Leicester...

I had just switched to Cranfield to listen out for a gap in the r/t so I could call... passing through a shower, slightly poor vis etc. The girls in the back were carrying on a bit - teasing each other, e.g. "she pulled my hair", "no I did not", etc. (I'm sure all parents will know what I mean!). Annoyed that I couldn't concentrate and exasperated at being ignored when my shouts at them to "shut up" were ignored, in the end I resorted to "making my presence felt" by taking a swipe at them in in the back seats, whilst flying with the other hand. Didn't connect (of course - what do you take me for!?) but this eventually had the desired effect on the girls... but not a great affect on my flying! :ugh:

Since then I prefer to fly whenever possible in an a/c which has an "isolate" function on the intercom :ok:

Andy

[Ace Rimmer]

Old man Rimmer exposed me to commiting aviation when about eight or nine - J3 Cub within one or two flights it was effect of controls...turns the circuit and then landings (rollers and three pointers) Later he got me doing flight planning for cross-countries he had a 310 in those days - nav, fuel planning the lot - I loved it couldn't get enough (bear in mind this was a kid who hated doing maths at school and was always late with homewortk - if done at all). Of course in doing so the bastard did infect me with aviation-itis. On balance I'd say it's a good thing to expose kids to it early (depending on the kid - there is a certain Rimmer niece that is staying firmly on the ground no matter how many time sister-in-law hints)

On the other hand there was the time I took one of Mrs R's brothers for a fly. I should have known (he has the personality that the word to$$er was invented for) he noticed that the departure from 21 at Shoreham takes you a bit over the water Quick as a flash he says " We're over water - do we have lifejakets?" seeking to reassure I say "No we don't if we lost the engine - I'd aim to land either on the beach or possibly in one of those fields there". "No" says he "if we are over water we really should have life jackets" I go on to explain that if I planned any longer over water flying that not only would we have life jackets in the aircraft we'd be wearing them. But surprise, surprise that's not good enough "Well I think if you are over water at all you should have them... if the engine stops..."
By this time we are over Littlehampton (from whence the Mrs Rimmers come).. And he still won't stop crapping on about lifejackets (obviously the river Arun is playing on his mind).

So I decide to demonstrate a PFL - in a effort to allay his fears that we will plummet to earth if the the engine were indeed to cease... set up for Ford no worries at all (in fact I'm rather pleased with it) break off at 500' while explaining to B-I-L that you see all would be well - we'd just have a bit of a walk back to Shoreham blah blah.
"That's all very well but what if the wings fall off what then"?

"Well" says I "the only thing then would be to have a word with your boss" (he's a priest)
Long pause.....then "You mean there are no parachutes? We should have parachutes"
And so on and so forth - in fact he dosent stop going on about parachutes and lifejakets for the remainder of his stay (another three days!).
:{

[FNG]

Serves you right for going flying with God-botherers. They ought to realise that aeroplanes are the work of Satan and leave them alone. Why didn't you just chuck him out? Angels can fly, can't they?*


* You'd have to check with Keef on this one, but I'm pretty sure that it was St Augustine, or maybe his pal Gregory the Great, who said "non angli sed angeli sunt" which roughly translates as "watch your angle of attack, they're anglicans".

[stiknruda]

FNG - you are wrong!

St Augustine is the home of one of the States' foremost aerobatic females, Patty W and also boasts a renowned vendor of fine aerobatic aircraft.

Gregory - wasn't he a spotty Jockenese teenager?

(Have replied to your PM)


Stik

[Ace Rimmer]

FNG too right - problem was Mrs R wanted him out of her hair and when Mrs R decides somthing then you do it...or risk...well it's too terrible to contemplate. Let me put it this way the roth of Mrs R will make even a strong man weep an plead for forgiveness

[Saab Dastard]

I doubt that my mother will ever want to fly with me (she gets airsick if she goes in the loft on a windy day), but she came out with a classic when I told her I was starting to fly gliders, several years ago.

"Isn't that a very dangerous sport"? she asked me, very concerned. When I told her it was sailplanes, not hang gliders and possibly safer than driving to the airfield, she immediately said "There you are, driving to the airfield AS WELL!".

Mothers, eh? :)

SD

[oscarmike]

Mothers, eh?

Quite - quote from my mother in law shortly after I got my PPL - upon see two passing ATPL's (four gold bar jobbies) at an airport as we were about to fly off on holiday "Of course, they are PROPER pilots.............. !!! " :mad:

Regards

OM

[whitingiom]

Keep em coming boys & girls!

I am laid up at home with crutches and can't get out until at least next week!

Your stories are far better than day time TV, and I think I've seen all the programmes on Discovery Wings now!

[FNG]

I'm reviving this thread to mention a passenger who was not exactly bad, but did get a bit worried.

I went flying with a friend who is a bit of a technology geek. He knows a bit about flying, and loves techno gadgets of all kinds. As he's a bit of a Special Forces Counter Insurgency Spook wannabe as well, he loves all the "Roger Mike Charlie Victor Vector" rubbish that we get to do whilst flying.

Off we went in a very smartly turned out Bulldog intending to footle about over Essex. I collected an FIS from Southend and floated about a bit near Chelmsford. The aircraft had just had a dodgy alternator fixed (or, as it turned out, not fixed). My friend noticed the alternator warning light before I did. The ammeter confirmed that there was no positive charge. I reduced electrical load, recycled switches etc, but to no avail. No big deal. The battery must have been a bit flat after the previous alternator failure, and we lost the radio very quickly (although the transponder was still able to kick out a 7600 squawk, which was seen by D&D, of which more later).

I pointed out to my friend that, although we could not visit anywhere, we could still fly about a bit if he wanted to, as neither the wings nor the engine are powered by electricity, but he was very keen that we should land immediately and, to be fair, the emergency drills do indicate that this is what you should do. Back we went to North Weald, waggled our wings to say hello, and landed flapless with no difficulty. Quick phone calls to our destination and to Southend and a nice call from D&D who had spotted the squawk and were concerned that we were OK (thanks again, guys). Then it was time to adopt Plan Beer.

My friend had been quite rattled by what was, to me, a minor matter of trifling importance. The weather was clear, we were in the open FIR, and North Weald is uncontrolled. My friend also told me that he had generally felt that the aircraft was less safe than the Cap 10 I had previously taken him up in. Odd, that, as to my mind the Dog has a reassuringly chunky feel, and some people have thought the dainty wooden Cap a bit flimsy (wrongly assuming aluminium to be tougher than wood). My friend said that this was because the Bulldog's panel looks so decidedly old-tech (despite a nice stack of modern nav/com boxes in front of his seat). Perhaps this was in reality down to my rough flying (also, as I fly the Dog less often, and it is a little bit more complicated than the Cap, I had a checklist on my knee, which I don't in the Cap).

A number of points: (1) We are used to the quaint appearance of oldish aeroplanes, but to people used to modern car interiors, they probably look pretty bonkers. (2) Although I do fairly detailed passenger briefings, including what to expect if something goes wrong, you can't go into every possible eventuality, and in any event to do so might cause needless anxiety. (3) Notwithstanding these points, my friend is a bit of a wimp. Too techno-oriented for his own good. Nice leather jacket and gloves, though.

[Boing_737]

I would love to see the state of the cockpit when "something gores wrong" (come to think of it, how does something gore right?)

That'd give your passengers something to think about, although they may be to pre-occupied removing the offending gore from their eyes and ears:E

[TheKentishFledgling]

Nice thread - thanks for bring it back from the dead FNG, I'd not noticed it before.

Scary story from stik and monocock....!

tKF

[FNG]

I'm very keen on bringing things back from the dead these days as I'm told that if you do there's a chance that Kate Beckinsale will kick the door down wearing some spray-on kung fu vampire-hunter kit .

[PilotOnline]

Although this doesn't quite compare to some of the other stories on this thread it still amazes me when I think back to it.

Last year I agreed to take an old friend for a flight over to Gloucester then for a quick bit of sightseeing over our old home town before going to look at Silverstone etc as he'd been asking for ages. The first hint of a bad day came when I was re-fuelling the plane before the flight and he came over and asked me in a rather loud voice "are all pilots geeks then?" :* I rather curtly replied no and thanks very much for that insightful comment but maybe we should get going before we get lynched.

Things went ok after that until I asked him if he was enjoying it to which he replied "well, yeah it's ok but not very comfortable" I personally think PA28's can be quite comfortable with only 2up (I'm not that big!)

At Gloucester, ready to make my call for the return leg, and suddenly the control yoke moves fast back towards me and then starts waggling around. Quick look across to find my friend helpfully 'checking controls for full free movement!' shortly followed by some pressing of buttons on the radio stack. I decided at this point that we were going to head straight home, tried to get a zone transit through Brize and was told to remain clear etc so as I replied I hear my friend pipe up with 'Why can't you tell those f*****s to b****r off!' Thankfully I managed to let go off the ptt switch quickly enough before the swearing started.

Thankfully the rest of the flight went uneventfully but it will be a long time before we go up again!

[Circuit Basher]

Pilot Online - great story! Just a quicky, however: on all the GA aircraft I've flown, the only mic which is active is the one for which the PTT's been pushed, so pax chatter should not go out. There are probably installations which are not wired in this manner, but with the vast majority of spamcans, you should find that this is the system (in fact, Geng the Eng will probably be able to quote somewhere in the regs where the CAA specify that this is a requirement!). :D

[MikeJeff]

I've never had a problem with a pax yet. Although having an SRG inspector in the family as caused one or two ATSUs along the way to have a problem!

It's kind of funny the way none pilots have such different perceptions of flying! For example "are all pilots geeks!" I'm trying to pursuade a fantastic young lady to come and aviate with me. She's a bit cautious of flying, and I learnt that people like that need to convince themselves they want to come, rather than getting bullied into it..(any tips on that would be much appreciated!). However, she's off white water rafting in a month or two! Naturally, I was mock offended that she would do that but be scared to get in an airplane! Her response made me laugh though.."I really couldn't get into aerial EXTREME SPORTS"???? Now I don't know about you, but going to Guernsey for Fish and Chips never seemed like an extreme sport to me!!

[PilotOnline]

Circuit Basher

I thought that was the case also but I'm sure I've heard transmissions before where a student is making a call and gets stuck and occaisonally you can hear a prompt from the instructor picked up by the student's mic! That's what worried me. Can that happen easily or does the person sitting next to you really have to shout to be heard?

[Juliet Papa]

Ahhh Mike...

Maybe when she refers to 'extreme sports' she knows what you have in mind...

:E

JP

[MikeJeff]

Hello stranger!! how's your share working out? Seem to be spending most of my time in Mia's CP these days!

as for extreme sports - I thought that watersports thing was out secret!!! :O

[Keef]

Oh dear! The Boss looks after me well, which is A Good Thing. I've had a fair quota of scary moments but survived them all.

A few years ago, we had a very large, rugby-playing Curate, who explained he'd never flown in anything, and my task was to rectify this in the near future. A day was duly chosen, and he was thoroughly briefed on what it would be like and what to do/not to do.

On the chosen day, we duly installed ourselves in the trusty G-UTSY, I briefed him again (just in case) and we taxied out. "You OK?" "Yes, fine." "OK, let's fly! Remember to keep your hands and feet well clear of the controls at all times!"

30 seconds later, airborne, and gear safely up, I glance right. He's sitting there, whitish green and covered in perspiration, with his arms locked on the coaming. This is a seriously large gentleman, and those arms locked on the yoke would have led to a rapid end for us both.

"Are you OK?" No reply.

Keef calls Tower for an uninterrupted and immediate return and landing - all gentle stuff, no tight turns, and we land safely. I was petrified that he would do something else, but he stayed locked to the coaming all the way down.

Phew!

He asked to have another go a few weeks later, but no way am I ever going to try that!

My two daughters, on the other hand, thought it "cool" when they were teenagers, and "boring" thereafter. They do still occasionally fly with me, but only if we're going somewhere they want to go.

Basic rule of survival is that first-time passengers, unless known to be cool calm and collected, go in the back.