Survival kits

[MLS-12D]

Just wondering what sort of survival equipment people carry when they fly.

I'll get us started, with a list of the contents of my own kit that lives in the back of the 'plane and is checked twice a year (April and October):

Mosquito and black fly repellant (“Deet”)
1 mosquito net
Sunblock lotion (SPF 45)
Multi-vitamins
First-aid kit (includes 2 army field dressings)
Ibuprofen 800 mg
Superglue
Toothbrush
Comb
1 pair leather work gloves
2 pairs wool socks
1 pair underpants
1 wool toque
Compass
3 tea candles
200’ duct tape
Water purification tablets
2 1-quart canteens, with covers and 1 canteen cup
4 breast milk storage bags (300 ml. capacity)
20’ small gauge copper wire
50’ paracord
300’ dental floss
2 sail needles
Assorted fishhooks and sinkers
1 set bear-bells
1 pen launcher
10 pen flares
3 bear bangers
1 signal mirror
1 Fox 40 whistle
1 strobe light, with spare battery
1 8’ x 8’ orange panel
1 Pocket Chainsaw (http://www.unbelievablesaw.com/)
1 hatchet, with file
1 Leatherman Supertool 200
1 sheath knife, with diamond sharpener
1 Landshark survival bag (http://www.corpairparts.com/)
1 12’ x 12’ tarpaulin
50 matches in waterproof (35 mm film) containers, with sandpaper for striking
2 disposal lighters
1 single-handed fire starter (http://www.ultimatesurvival.com/catalog/prod_detail.php?pid=6&PHPSESSID=a88432d49986f1293e6746bae2d72b18), with tinder
Magic stove (http://www.magicheat.com/), with four fuel canisters
15 energy bars
20 bullion cubes
beef jerky (sealed bag)
hardtack (http://www.k12.nf.ca/greenwood/Heritage/G6-7/Industries/Purity%20products.htm) (indestructible!)
2 flashlights (1 AA-cell, 1 D-cell), with spare batteries and bulbs
1 portable AM/FM/SW radio receiver (http://www.alpharubicon.com/prods/radioworthbuying.htm) (with handcranking feature)
1 survival manual
1 copy of Lansing, Endurance: Shackleton’s Incredible Voyage
Rucksack

I don't carry a firearm, since they are bulky, heavy, and vulnerable to theft.

What do you carry?

[FNG]

A fine kit list for bush flying, but you have omitted the lemon spoons (the informal ones should do).

Do you get Ray Mears' survival progs on Canadian cable channels? He's a specialist in outdoor skills, and features various true tales of wilderness survival, including one of a floatplane pilot in (I think) Alaska, who got stuck at a lake with minimal kit. He made it, but had a rough time.

For flying over the rugged and inhospitable terrain of south eastern England, my survival kit consists of a mobile phone, shoes stout enough to walk out of a muddy field in, and a spare clothing layer, regardless of outside air temperature, as you experience (at least) mild shock and get cold after a forced landing. Hopefully the first aid kit will not go up in smoke with the aircraft, which doesn't have a fire extinguisher. If flying over Essex I take some brightly coloured beads or other wampum in order to trade with the natives (assuming they don't eat me first).

A few years ago some people got lucky after they crashed in the Scottish highlands in winter and were found by the rescue teams despite having wandered away from the beacon equipped wreckage. What was surprising was that they were dressed and equipped for an afternoon watching the telly, despite their chosen route over some of Europe's most lethal mountains. Similar to people who set off from car parks for walks into the hills and wonder why they get hypothermia in their shorts and flip flops.

[IO540]

Gosh, and there was me lending my life raft to a local school who were doing a fly-out to France in four planes, with no life rafts and several life jackets short... the CFI told me in strong terms that they were doing was NOT illegal.

That's an impressive list MLS!

[Monocock]

300 feet of dental floss?

:}

[Kolibear]

Impressive stuff that DEET. I sprayed some on a painted door once. 12 hours later, the paint had blistered. Shame its noe so good on mozzies.

FNG - I've got some nice beads I'll trade you for a new mobile! ;)

Credit card & mobile phone are the best survival kit I can think of.

[englishal]

FOr flying in the mountains of SW England, I normally carry a mobile telephone, and a packet of tobacco with lighter. I'd hate to get stranded somewhere withough being able to spark up :D I normally carry enough money to be able to head off to the nearest pub to get hammered to celebrate still being alive as well.

For further afield, I carry all of the above plus an ELT, and one of those shiny survival blankets. For the long journey across the channel, I also carry a liferaft, life jackets, and may wear a dry suit.....

EA

[Genghis the Engineer]

I think that there's an important point here which is being missed.

MLS lists an extensive survival kit which is appropriate to flying across large amounts of Canadian wilderness but would be somewhat overkill where many of us fly - alternatively if you were flying routinely over desert a similarly extensive, but probably quite different, survival kit would be appropriate.

But, I'd also guess that MSL knows how to use all of that kit.



So, anybody carrying survival kit really should (a) be carrying kit appropriate to the trip, and (b) know how to use it.

For the record, if flying over the Scottish Highlands / Welsh Mountains (or walking in them) my standard kit, from memory is something along the lines of:-

- First aid kit
- Survival bag + silver blanket.
- small tablet stove
- Water sterilising tablets.
- Lifeboat matches + lighter
- Torch
- Beef stock cubes, coffee, tea bags, powdered milk.
- Parachute cord
- Swiss army knife.
- Mobile phone.

In the south of England that would be down to the first aid kit and swiss army knife. Over water anywhere add lifejackets, for long water crossings add a dinghy, for water in winter, a drysuit.

But, I have been taught how to use all that stuff, and let's be honest, after you've found yourself "stuck" is not the time to read the survival manual MLS carries, except to relieve the boredom whilst waiting to be rescued (alternatively, you could use it for lighting a fire :O ).

G

[englishal]

Water sterilising tablets.
Why on earth would you need them in Wales or Scotland? Everybody knows that it rains 300 days a year in both those places, and rainwater is as fresh as you'll get:D....Good list mind you, though I'd replace the Beef Stock Cubes with a French stick, some Pate, nice bleu cheese and a couple of cans of cider....Might add a fly fishing rod, so I can do a bit of salmon poaching, you could then smoke it and have it with the French stick ;)

[FNG]

tsk, tsk, Al, have you forgotten your survival training? A perfectly serviceable fly fishing rod can be fashioned from the elevator control rods of your smouldering aircraft. Drinking from bonny brooks and braes is OK unless there's a dead sheep (or, as they say in Welsh "leisure centre") lying in the water upstream, and there usually is.

Joking apart, Genghis is talking sense as usual.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Problem with Pate and French Stick is that, apart from being a little bulky, they aren't all that useable after 2 years in my survival pack, whilst Oxo cubes are usually still okay.

Regarding sterilising tablets - my standard army mess tin is about 3 inches deep. I can either (a) scoop it full of water and add a steritab, wait 20 minutes then use it, or (b) leave it out and wait for 3" of rain. Even in Scotland that usually takes a bit longer than 20 minutes.

I tried fishing for a while, with full tackle I've only caught anything on about 1 trip out of half a dozen before I gave up for good. That has never given me great confidence in it as a survival method.

G

[Kolibear]

MLS-12D,

As a matter of interest - how much does that lot weigh?

Who prompts the next question - what are you flying?

[MLS-12D]

300 feet of dental floss?This is not primarily for dental hygiene, but rather for fishing line, sewing, and generally tying jobs such as shelter construction (in case I run out of paracord). Dental floss is very strong for its size, and 300' takes up almost no space or weight. It's cheap, too.

As a matter of interest - how much does that lot weigh?It's been a while since I weighed it (admittedly I should be more diligent about Weight & Balance), but not that much, really. If you review the list carefully, you'll see that all of the gear is pretty small and lightweight (no canned food, for example). Fortunately there is a lot of compact gear manufactured for hikers, mountain climbers, etc.; it's all readily available and can be used by pilots, too. Even the fuel canisters are quite small. The biggest item in my kit is the hatchet (http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/gb_hatchet.html), and that is not heavy.

Who prompts the next question - what are you flying?Cessna 170B.

Anybody carrying survival kit really should (a) be carrying kit appropriate to the trip, and (b) know how to use it.
Agreed (although I would amend Genghis' comment to read "anybody flying really should be carrying survival equipment appropriate to the conditions and know how to use it").

Let's be honest, after you've found yourself "stuck" is not the time to read the survival manual MLS carries, except to relieve the boredom whilst waiting to be rescued.Agreed: a book is no substitute for proper training. However, I don't have perfect recall, and a manual makes a good aide-mémoire.

The book about Shackleton is to relieve boredrom, and also to remind myselft that it is possible to survive some pretty awful situations, given the right mental attitude.

P.S. A couple of years ago, I read an article in Soaring magazine about survival kits for gliders flown in the American west (Nevada, Arizona, etc.). Most of the gear listed made sense to me: except for the loaded 9 mm. pistol and extra magazines! :rolleyes: A gun like that is essentially useful for anything except shooting human beings ... methinks the author had seen one too many reruns of the movie Mad Max 2 (aka The Road Warrior).

[ABO944]

3 Bear bangers! They must be big hefty guys!

Do you actually take-off with all that load?

:D

[Monocock]

MLS-12D

Where do you sit to fly this C170?

:oh:

[NinjaBill]

Fly it? why would you want to do that when you can go camping instead

[Saab Dastard]

I find it absolutely INCREDIBLE and INCOMPREHENSIBLE that a Hi-Viz vest is not only NOT the first item on the list but isn't even ON the list!

This surely is the most important bit of survival kit in any aeroplane, anywhere in the world. More important than fuel, even.

:)

Smiley added for those from parts of the world that don't understand sarcasm or suffer "Sense of Humour Inoperability Trouble". There's an acronym there, if only I could think of it...

SD

[Megaton]

One man life raft
Heliograph
Water
Hi energy sweets
Gloves
Headover
Personal locator beacon
Razor blade
Fishing line
Hooks
Waterprrof matches
Guide to emergency signals
Miniflares
Night and day flares
Sea sickness tablets
First aid kit

And some more water.

Sincerely hope never to use any of it.

[Evo]

Hell, i've seen Alive. Mountain flying requires a well-fed passenger... :}

[MLS-12D]

Ham Phisted: sounds good, except that you might consider replacing the one man raft with one ostensibly designed for two (those raft manufacturers seem to assume that an average raft occupant is 4'6" tall and weighs 75 lbs).

Also, I would suggest supplementing the sweets with a few well-chosen energy bars that will provide a more sustained energy release as well as some vitamins and minerals (can you say "scurvy"? :}).

Finally, you should have a knife: a razorblade isn't really enough. If you're worried about puncturing your raft, get something like the Spyderco Rescue (http://www.thecuttingedge.co.nz/Spyderco/spyderco_rescue%20details.htm), or the Myerchinuk Shark (http://www.myerchinuk.com/a566p%20detail.htm). Stay away from the huge, double-edged, saw-toothed "survival knives" that appeal to the teen-aged set.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

And ... not exactly a piece of survival equipment as such, but don't forget to tell the passengers how to turn on the ELT. Ever since that story about a plane crash in the Alps (IIRC): the pilot was killed in the crash, the passengers survived, but the ELT didn't go off by itself and when the wreck was found four days later the passengers had all died of exposure. If they'd been told to press the red button the chopper would have been with them in an hour - that little bit of knowledge would have been worth any amount of survival gear.

[MLS-12D]

A Hi-Viz vest is ... surely is the most important bit of survival kit in any aeroplane, anywhere in the world. Not IMHO. Matches (or other fire-starter); a knife; and a signal mirror, in that order.

[Genghis the Engineer]

MLS, don't let it trouble you. A great many airport operators in the UK have become somewhat obsessive about hi-viz vests, to the point of fining pilots who don't wear one for walking (probably about 20 yards) to their aircraft. This has made a great many of us rather sarcastic on the subject (one British flying magazine will sell you a yellow hi-viz vest with printed in large letters on the back "I'm wearing this vest to protect somebody else's a**s*"). It wasn't a serious comment, but unless you've flown from any medium sized English airports in the last couple of years, you'd not realise the context.

G

[MLS-12D]

Genghis,

I gotcha. I didn't realize that it was a tongue-in-cheek comment.

Actually, there is something to be said for having at least one piece of high-viz clothing in the old survival kit. One of those MA-1 jackets with reversible orange lining would not be a bad idea; or, if one flies a float plane, one of these (http://shop.store.yahoo.com/ultimategear/nomflotfligv.html) might be prudent for full-time wear (although it won't meet the legal requirements and would need to be supplemented with a normal May West in the back of the 'plane).

[Megaton]

MLS

Thank you. I do actually carry an knife as well and there's no need for a two-man liferaft since the bloke in the front has got his own! :p

[Kolibear]

Don't forget the GPS.

[Wide-Body]

All these Knives. Are you people not aware of todays security situation. Hand them in Immediately and report for re training :E


Wide

[LowNSlow]

As i mostly fly epic cross country trips like my last one of Luton - Old Warden (12 mins up the A1) I tend to carry a less than comprehensive survical kit. ;)

I always carry a jacket for the same reasons Genghis mentioned. I always carry a small tin of cigars and a lighter plus I always wear footgear that I can walk a decent distance in. There's a Leatherman multi tool in my bag.

If I venture further afield then I carry some choccies, crisps (chips for the chaps on the West coast of the pond) and drinks of some description. I always arrange to call somebody upon arrival from my mobile.

I'm building up to getting a hi-viz thingy from Flyer as I think the logo on it is amusing and sums up my feelings perfectly.

[FlyingForFun]

I'm building up to getting a hi-viz thingy from Flyer as I think the logo on it is amusingAnd for the benefit of those of us unfortunate enough not to have come across this fashion accessory, the logo on it is.....??????

FFF
-------------

[LowNSlow]

FFF not like you not to read the whole thread. :p

Genghis posted:

one British flying magazine will sell you a yellow hi-viz vest with printed in large letters on the back "I'm wearing this vest to protect somebody else's a**s*

[FNG]

Tsk, tsk, poor lookout, FFF, scan above.

edit: Lownslow beat me to it.

[FlyingForFun]

I shall consider myself suitably reprimanded :O

Since I've handed in my notice now, I can't even use the excuse that my boss doesn't understand how important these things are, because even my boss doesn't expect me to do too much work for the next few weeks. So I get a big "Must Try Harder"!

FFF
---------------

[stiknruda]

At risk of dilluting a very humourous topic with data pertaining to survival; last year I was considering popping over to Ireland to enter an aeros competition.

Having taken a quick peep at the chart, I realised that there is an awful lot of very cold water to cross (abvout 62 miles if memory serves me correctly).

I posted a question on the Mil Aircrew forum asking about heliographs and mini flares and had some very useful feedback. I just wish that I'd retained some of my survival kit (which I stored in a tobacco tin!) when I was "in".

I see that Ireland are hosting another comp in early summer so may well need the contacts that the post unearthed.

As for the hi-viz vest, I'd rather chew silver foil than wear one.

Stik

FNG/Monocock - you are very funny guys!

[Genghis the Engineer]

At risk of giving Nick some free advertising, the yellow jacket in question may be found here. (http://www.flyer.co.uk/shop/department.php?Submit=Accessories&department=5)

G

[LowNSlow]

I can understand your reluctance to wear a yellow hi-viz stik . Oooooohh I can see it now, yellow jacket next to a purple Pitts. Arrgghh the clash, the clash ;) ;) ;)

[Genghis the Engineer]

Can you get one made in dayglo purple?

G

[Confabulous]

'Can you get one made in dayglo purple?'


Well, that's the image of the macho test pilot out the window! ;)

[Saab Dastard]

New Thread:

PURPLE hi-viz vests

:)

MLS 12D, glad you get the joke about the hi-viz vests. ;) I thought that the Smiley added for those from parts of the world that don't understand sarcasm or suffer "Sense of Humour Inoperability Trouble" was a bit of a giveaway, myself.

I'll just put "Joke for English people" next time. :)

I'm not laughing at you MLS, sir, honest - I just found it very funny, is all.

SD

[Danza]

I’ve got a question/idea that nobody else has touched on, what about the fluorescent marker dye packs for water?. You know, the kind that turns vast quantities of water that attractive yellow colour to help being spotted by the rescue people. Are these available to buy or are they a purely military thing?.
I can remember reading a story about an RAF crew crashing in the Welsh mountains on a training exercise during WWII. One of the crew had the rather bright idea of releasing the dye into a stream they had crashed close to, the dye eventually made it down stream and into a lake. This was then spotted by the mountain rescue people, who followed the stream and located the crash.
If this is not available, as a substitute you can always use potassium permanganate (available form all good chemists), this can be used to stain water purple. Useful if crashed in high mountains and need to stain a large area of snow (no jokes about yellow snow please ;) ), it can also be used to sterilise things and light fires. Although slightly less useful if you are stuck in a field in Devon.

[MLS-12D]

No offence taken, Saab.

From previous threads, I have a slight knowledge about the requirement to wear high-viz stuff at some UK aerodromes. I also recalled that some people feel very strongly that this is a great idea and that the nay-sayers are reckless fools ... it's sometimes difficult to know whether they (or, in this case, you) are serious or not.

Cheers,

MLS ;)

[jackyboy]

For the information of FNG and anyone else flying over Essex.

Since the pound is strong against the dollar, Brightly coloured beads have taken a fall as well. (About 5000 to the pound)

Having checked with the tribal elders, the good news is that brightly coloured blankets and Fire water are still strong.

You may wish to update your kit :D

As for colouring the water. A British chicken tikka the night before and a good ditching should see the water turn a nice colour.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Well, that's the image of the macho test pilot out the window

I meant to match Stik's Pitts you cheeky blighter.

Anyhow, macho test pilots tend to get weeded out very early, the old ones (which I aspire to be one day) tend to be quiet unassuming chaps with no egos and unassailable reputations - bit like John Farley really!

Sadly none of that does apply to me, but I'm not sure that the word macho does either. Ho Hum.

G

[MLS-12D]

3 Bear bangers! They must be big hefty guys!
A bear banger (http://www.moderntradingpost.com/tru_flare/) is a noisemaker, intended to scare off curious bears. See the description here (http://aix1.uottawa.ca/~nduffee/bruce/mcrae302.html). Unfortunately, there are not alway effective: see generally this story (http://www.tahsisbc.com/news/2002_10_bears_invade_tahsis.htm) and this one (http://www.snfc.ca/Menip/Menip%2036.htm); but better than nothing. Where I live, there are only black bears, which in my limited personal experience are usually more scared of people than the other way around, although admittedly there are occasional isolated attacks (typically, but not always, involving a sow defending her cubs).

I don't regard a bear attack as a primary survival concern, although if you watch Anthony Hopkins and Alec Baldwin in The Edge (http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/1997/10/00edge.html), I would forgive you for thinking otherwise! BTW, they certainly did a great job of skinning out that huge bear with a small jack knife. :D

You can find some survival equipment for sale here (http://www.bestglide.com/index.htm). Note the lists of required kit for Alaska and Canada, in the "Articles/Info" section [actually the list for Canada is out of date, but still contains some good suggestions].

They also have pre-packaged survival kits for sale. Personally, I think that preparing your own kit is a much better idea (among other things, you can customize it to your specific requirements, and usually save some money whilst not compromising on quality); but certainly a commercial kit is almost always better than no kit at all. See here (http://www.equipped.org/avsrvkit.htm) for reviews of various commercial kits currently available.

P.S. Stay away from the "Brunton Pocket Survival Kit", which is an impractical piece of nonsense (much better to spend the same amount of money for a basic compass). See further here (http://www.equipped.org/brunton_kit.htm).

[LowNSlow]

MLS neat links. I think I need some bear bangers Bearbangers: 15mm Signal Cartridges with exploding flare insert. Rim and center fire. Perfect for: Pest control and distress signal. they sound like just the thing for the next time I meet my ex.

Some people will do anything Debbie Chomeczko protectively hugs her two children Calvin (left) and Jaime (right) while they observe the bear up the tree in her neighbours yard. to get into the newspapers / TV ! Don't think protective hugging would be much defence against an irate black bear though......

[MLS-12D]

This is from Flying Know-How by Bob Buck:

I carry emergency equipment in my airplane. In the Skylane it's a small red nylon knapsack. In it is water - about 5 quarts except when I'm going to fly desert country, then it's a lot more; also signal flares, signal mirror, a first-aid kit (not a store one, but one put together myself after talking it over with a doctor friend); food concentrates that have an indefinite shelf life, like pemmican, bacon bars, tropical chocolate - enough to last me a few days. I have a space blanket, matches, snare, fishing line and some hooks, one of those wirelike saws that wrap around their own handles, and a few other knickknacks. It sounds like a lot, but it's only a package about 15" by 14" by 9" and weighs 13 pounds. It sits back in the corner of the baggage compartment and is never removed except for periodic checking and bringing up to date. The water is in tough plastic containers that never leak. In the winter the water in them freezes when it's in a subfreezing hanger or tie-down, but it unfreezes and doesn't bother the containers. More than once I've felt a lot more comfortable knowing that stuff was back there.

[windy1]

This survival business got me thinking about what you should do about the plane you just survived in.

Assuming you walked a safe distance away and used your mobile to let the key people know (or used the aircraft radio on 121.5 to call the nearest airliner if no mobile coverage) - then what?

Ask the farmer to keep an eye on it?
Make camp nearby until the recovery crew arrives?
Unscrew the Garmin, phone the insurers, go home
Others????

On reflection, I suppose a successful forced landing is one where you have these questions to deal with.

[MLS-12D]

It has obvious limitations, but Victorinox's large survival kit (http://www.tankards.com/Update/survival_kits.htm) would certainly be better than nothing, and might fit the bill for light-duty survival situations such as are likely to arise in the UK.

[FJJP]

Honestly! Daft idea suggesting dental floss for hygiene to a Canadian. Why, don't they just tear a leg off a passing caribou and after eating the raw meat, gnaw on the bone until their teeth are clean? I mean, 'I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok.....etc'!

[FNG]

It is the vogue, this season, to revive threads previously thought dead. I have dug this thread up partly in order to eat it, as I have just crashed in the woods, but mainly in order to mention an interesting book called "Flying the Mountains", by Fletcher Anderson. It goes without saying that one cannot learn any sort of flying from a book, but this one makes for an interesting read whilst waiting to be rescued, or eaten by killer moose, despite getting away with more split infinitives than Captain James T Kirk himself.

The best bit of advice in the book so far is: "Fly like a girl".

Statistically, it says, women pilots have accidents because of loss of aircraft control, but men have accidents because of rotten judgments, and pressing on regardless. As with driving, so with flying: women can't park, but men have more accidents than women, and worse ones, too.

[High Wing Drifter]

300 feet of dental floss?
:}
Hey don't knock it. You can use it to set rodent snares and garotte deer. The 200' of gaffer tape, with the right training, can be used to construct bear traps. :D

[witchdoctor]

Is that so the bear bangers can have their fun?:}