transporting deceased onboard airliners?

[EightsOnPylons]

is this a morgue on board?
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/529497/L/

[wbryce]

there was a large topic on airliners.net about this.

I think it has more of a purpose for passengers that pass away inflight.

[fokker]

Sadly, dead folk are transported just like any other piece of freight; it quite saddened me the first time I saw a (full) coffin, wrapped in hessian on the ramp and then forklifted onto the aircraft. I suspect the only concession would be if the family was there for some reason. At the other end, the coffin was (carefully) forklifted into the hearse for onward transport.

The only difference form a box of spanners is that the captain is given a Notice to Aircraft Commander (NOTAC) informing him that he is carrying 'human remains'.

:(

[747FOCAL]

wbryce,

That is not for dead people, though I suppose one could be put in there. I had a guy die next to me on a flight from Seattle to Phoenix and they booted two people out of First Class and put him up there underneath one of the stews blue overcoats. I helped pack him up there. :)

[tyfilou]

The other difference with cargo is that a deceased body has to be accounted for as a person on the flight plan!

With the travelling retired baby boomer people getting older, it will be interesting to have a morgue for LROPS with A 340 and A380.... as statistics for having a deceased person arising in flight's going to increase with the lenght of flight, number of people on board and ageing of population....

(sorry for english faults... not my first language...)

[BlueEagle]

Even more sad, fokker, is watching a coffin being unloaded from the bulk hold on a B747 via a conveyor, getting about one third the way down the belt before gently sliding off the side, hitting the tarmac and shedding it's contents! It has happened and more than once.

[EightsOnPylons]

Thank you for your replies. I found the corresponding discussions at airliners.net

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1450255/6/
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1451448/4/

[Fright Level]

Perhaps it's the new Japanese hotel style crew rest area?

[LGW Vulture]

I'm sure I've seen an IATA cargo handling manual which explains that when transporting human remains in the hold, do not place next to or near live animals!! :uhoh: :uhoh:

[BlueEagle]

Don't know if it applies to all animals but HR and dogs are a definite no-no. Dogs, it would seem, know straight away that there are HR on board and don't stop howling.

[ABO944]

The other difference with cargo is that a deceased body has to be accounted for as a person on the flight plan


I dont think thats correct!

It is shown on the loadsheet as HUM/weight. Just another bit of revenue im affraid, not a passenger as we know it.

I have also witnessed a coffin sliding off a belt loader and opening up on the ramp!

No one would help me put the old girl back in!

She never thanked me either!

[simonp]

" She never thanked you either" I can only imagine your reaction if she had!

[Notso Fantastic]

<Dogs, it would seem, know straight away that there are HR on board and don't stop howling.>
Yes- this is strange. I've had several dogs and they've all been very 'disturbed' in the presence of dead things and greatly relieved to get away. They definitely understand a lot more than we give them credit for.
This is not a word of a lie. We transitted Perth Australia in a Classic 747 with a dog in the hold. Whilst doing our checks, probably not the brightest loader in the world appeared on the Flight Deck and asked the Captain: "Captain, this radioactive package has got written on it 'not in the same hold as livestock', and we've got a dog in the hold. Can we store it on the Flight Deck?". One of only 2 occasions in my life when I have been totally unable to speak.

[Yarpy]

Best one I had was on my command check:

VERY dim dispatcher opened the flight deck door and asked:

"Got some explosives for the rear hold; that alright with you?"

I have transported human remains in the RAF and a civil airline.

I recall the RAF required a figure for 'Souls on Board' which included the dead infant in a tiny little coffin strapped to the floor of the cabin behind us.

A civil airline just carries HR as freight. Quite undignified really.

[Bluejay]

For clarification:

Human Remains are carried as Cargo, they should be treated with the utmost respect at all times (I cannot talk for colleagues on the Ramp or at outstations).

If a HUM is manifested for travel as cargo then the following rules should be applied (this is certainly how we delat with them at LGW):

1. The HUM is wheeled out of the morgue on a trolley and taken to the build beds (Cargo ULD on a rollerbed system)

2. The HUM is gently lifted at both ends and carefully put onto the blades of a forklift truck

3. The HUM is then gently lowered onto the ULD and strapped into place.

4. The pallet is then netted and covered in black plastic. the build card on the ULD is annotated with HUM to show the Ramp crew and anyone else who cares to look that Human Remains are on that ULD.

HUM in my experience never went as "Bulk" Cargo, they are not put near ANY live animals (AVI) and any hazardous (HAZ) cargo that is manifested for that service should be built on a separate ULD, if this is not possible and has to go on the smae ULD as the HUM then it should be as far from the HUM as possible.


Quote:

A civil airline just carries HR as freight. Quite undignified really.

I agree in a way but if this is the only way to get the HUM back to the UK or out to where it needs to go then its the only way

[Flap Sup]

Fokker, its a NOTOC (NOtofocation TO Commander/Captain).

However, its up to the individual airline to define if a NOTOC is required for a HUM.

Bluejay,

HUMs are often transported as bulk load, although seldom in the bulk of a containerized AC.

brgds FS

[HZ123]

Usually it is all the movement around the a/c that start the dogs off and nerves. Probably they can detect that many of the loading staff only have two speeds dead slow and stop.

[el dorado]

Never done it on an airliner because I've not yet had the pleasure of flying an airliner but have done it on a BN-2 Islander in the Caribbean. Seats out, box in. Came from NY to St. Maarten, N.A. en-route to Antigua. I seem to recall being told that the cost was the same as a standard ticket but she got to lie down the whole way. I'm sure the loaders/unloaders of the big a/c did it fairly competently but I and a company helper had to manhandle the very heavy box (thrice layered and sealed within a metal box inside the absolutely huge aluminium outside coffin) into the BN-2. The only way in was slightly on end, definitely on the side, with some ominous clunking noises from inside. Rather glad it was a daytime flight!

There was also the "morgue smell". Hard to describe but I guess they try to provide a sort of frankincense-and-myrrh athmosphere to the proceedings. Of course the other end was even more shambolic as we had to wait for the completely late undertaker to turn up in what looked like the hearse out of the Jamaican Bond film (don't remember the name), with the sun beating down on box and getting behind schedule.

No idea what she looked like when they opened it up for family viewing but she probably needed a hairdresser after being turned upside down and sideways.

Not really my favourite flights but the customer is always right, especially when you're doing charters.

Thought for the day!

el dorado

[davethelimey]

I believe that repatriation of remains is actually quite expensive, and is included in most health/travel insurance packages.

Anyone have a figure?

[Fright Level]

Used to fly Chicago to Italy regularly and many of the flights had a HUM on the loadsheet. I used to think they were huge gangster figures being sent home to be buried as they were always of the order of 200kg on the loadsheet until I learned it's the lead lined boxes they are shipped in.

[ratsarrse]

This thread has answered a few questions for me.;)

One more, though. Someone dies midway through a fairly lengthy flight. The flight is full. If I was sitting next to said corpse would I be stuck with it for the rest of the journey? Or is it possible to lob the deceased in the hold? Er, respectfully lob in the hold.

[BlueEagle]

When this happened to me we got a doctor on board to certify death then placed the deceased into the nearest toilet and locked it.

[747FOCAL]

Airline's new fleet includes a cupboard for corpses
The Guardian (UK) 05/11/04
author: Andrew Clark
Copyright (C) 2004 The Guardian; Source: World Reporter (TM)


It is always inconvenient when a passenger dies on an aeroplane - not least for the person sitting in the next seat. So Singapore Airlines has attempted to take the trauma out of such tragedies by introducing a special cupboard to store any unexpected corpse.

The airline's new fleet of Airbus A340-500 aircraft boasts a discreet locker next to one of the plane's exit doors which is long enough to store an average-sized body, with special straps to prevent any movement during a bumpy landing.

Cabin crew have been instructed to use the locker in the event of a death on a long-haul flight - particularly if the aircraft is busy, with no free seats on which to lay out the deceased.

The aircraft came into use in February, operating the longest non-stop route in the world: a 17-hour, 7,900-mile journey between Singapore and Los Angeles.

The length of the flight has forced Singapore Airlines to think carefully about its handling of any medical emergencies - particularly because the route spans the Pacific Ocean, with little opportunity for an unscheduled landing.

An airline spokeswoman said: "On the rare occasion when a passenger passes away during a flight the crew do all that is possible to manage the situation with sensitivity and respect.

"Unfortunately given the space constraints in an aircraft cabin, it is not always possible to find a row of seats where the deceased passenger can be placed and covered in a dignified manner, although this is always the preferred option.

"The compartment will be used only if no suitable space can be found elsewhere in the cabin."

The airline intends to begin a second route next month using the same long-range aircraft - the flight between Singapore and New York will skirt the north pole, offering equally little scope for diversion.

Richard Maslen, the assistant editor of Airliner World magazine, said the compartment was an interesting feature of the new aircraft, which seats 180 people.

"As far as I'm aware, this is not something that's been thought of in other aircraft designs in the past," he said.

"Obviously, these things do unfortunately happen in the air and it's good to see that they have been thought about in advance."

[ft]

You'll want to note the body down on the passenger list though. What if there is a crash? "Oh yeah, we've gotten everyone out now. Unfortunately, one was dead." While someone is still left in the wreckage alive...

Hm, I seem to recall a specific instruction from my ramper days to load coffins so that the body would travel head first.

Cheers,
Fred

[RUDAS]

i think anybody flying over 14 hrs can expect pax to start expiring,either of boredom or dvt or perhaps both.you tried sitting in a Big Airways 747 lately? Thank God i frequent the pointy end!

[PAXboy]

FT: Hm, I seem to recall a specific instruction from my ramper days to load coffins so that the body would travel head first.

I wonder ... in the UK the standard practise is always 'feet first'. This means that a coffin in a hearse has the feet in the middle of the vehicle with the head at the back. Whenever the body is carried, it is with the feet first. I think this stems from the religious idea that the dead will see the sun rise on the morning of resurrection or something.

Whatever the origins, this has now been so accepted into British society that it is seen as disrespectful to carry a corpse other than feet first.

[compressor stall]

Coffins? We had the luxury of those sometimes. Other times it was just a body bag.

In a C210 as well....

At least bodybags are easier to load.

The noises and smells emitted from the bag when climbing to alt are something else though...:yuk:

[RUDAS]

COMPRESSOR STALL

You've ruined my lunch!:yuk:

[HZ123]

Flying to the UK the corpse should not be moved as it may be a scene of crime. It can only be assumed that death occurred by natural causes. In probability it may be practical to move the remains but on BA a/c there are not many lockers etc to place them in.

[Engine overtemp]

HZ123
Flying to the UK the corpse should not be moved as it may be a scene of crime.
First I've ever heard of that! Where did you aquire that little nugget from (you are possibly right but I would be interested to know).
I think you will find that BA has exactly the same number of lockers (toilets) to place bodies in as any other airline. :O

[*Lancer*]

If a deceased passenger is left in the seat for the sole purpose of maintaining a crime scene, that would suggest police investigators board the aircraft and conduct the beginnings of a criminal evidence search... That very very rarely happens. Usually the body is just carried off.

With 400 passengers on an aircraft, its a statistical certainly that not always all will make it to their ticketed destination!

[Daifly]

In the UK people are always buried with their feet facing East (I think that's the same basis at the sunrise mentioned before).

Apart from Vicars who are buried feet West to face their flock.

You learn something new here everyday! (I had a very good upbringing, where did it all go wrong!!?)

[gingernut]

I used to work for a recovery service, which was responsible for bringing home travellers who became ill abroad. My job was to escort the patient during his travel home. I was advised, by one of my colleagues, that if a patient expired whilst in the airline seat, the best thing to do was to place an oxygen mask over the patient, and have a discrete word with the crew.

Thankfully it never happened to me, so I was never placed in such a situation.

I can see the logic however. Its sometimes very difficult to tell the difference between a patient who is "nearly dead" and "dead", even to the trained eye.

Sounds a bit callous, but could prevent distress to all concerned ?

[BlueEagle]

On some flights out of the Middle East many were coming for treatment and sadly some didn't make it. As these were night flights we would do as Gingernut suggests, oxygen mask and leave them in their seat, if possible.
On arrival LHR it was not allowed to disembark the pax immediately however, we had to give a short PA and wait for the doctor and a policeman to confirm there had been no foul play.

[EasyBaby]

thankfully i've never been in a situation of handling a body (been very close though!) But our airline isn't allowed to carry human remains only the powder form! :\

So if one should pop their clogs before landing should we toss them out since we cant have them on board?! :E

EB;)

[niknak]

Some time ago a friend flying a C404 on night mail was asked to transport a coffin (occupied) as well as mail bags. Unfortunately, he had to make an unscheduled stop enroute due to a tech' problem, but couldnt get in touch with company to tell them.

When he landed, the engineers told him they'd have to unload all the cargo to access the origin of the fault, but would replace it all when they resolved the problem.

Being considerate engineers, they put the coffin in a discreet area out of view, but forgot to tell the oncoming shift about it. Their oncoming colleagues fixed the problem, reloaded the mail bags, and off went my mate - minus the coffin.

Arriving at destination, hearse rolls up at the stand alongside the Royal Mail vans, and the awful truth dawns upon the pilot, who spent a good 30 minutes trying to convince his boss he hadn't carried out his own committal of the deceased.

Meanwhile, ashen faced engineers find coffin in crew room at dead of night..........:E

[fourplay]

Coffin left behind:


Brilliant ...God I love listening/reading true stories.
Better than fiction any day.

Keep em coming :} :} :}

[Old Smokey]

It seems that Aircrew have the same fascination with the macabre as anyone else! Thank God we're normal.

A TRUE story from the 1970's in New Guinea.

There was a serious mining accident at Kieta, with a great number of people killed in the land-slide. Recovery of the bodies took weeks, with the last recovered well ripened in the tropical heat. The 2 airlines, TAA and Ansett, had a steady stream of coffins as freight out of Kieta, until the coffins ran out, whereupon the 'well ripened' victims were bagged in plastic and carried in cardboard boxes. On one such flight, the plastic bags burst, issuing forth great quantities of ooze, and the most horrific smell.

With gagging / vomitting passengers, and the pilots using oxygen, the aircraft landed at Buka, and help requested from the local hospital. A coffin was made available, but, being a Sunday, no staff were available to assist. The cabin crew said she could help.

With minimal and (very) unwilling conscripted help, she unpacked the contents of the cardboard box, transferred them to the coffin, and re-sealed it under the wing of the DC3. After suitably cleaning up, she announced that the flight could depart when ready.

One fact that she hadn't told her colleagues was that her previous employment was as a mortuary attendant.

Now THAT's passenger service beyond the call of duty - the type that other airlines only talk about.