Passing Level when checking in.....

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Yes or No ?

After the initial squawk ident on departure, on an intial call to every new sector do we really need to say the passing level

Cheers.

:ok:

[expedite_climb]

No....

.... but I dont know where it says that.

[Papa Lazarou]

It is pretty useful to approach controllers when aircraft are checking in and joining a hold. It equates to a level vacation report when 400ft or more below a flight level. This helps keep things moving, particularly if radar returns are garbled, by releasing levels for following aircraft.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

In the UK (well, certainly in the London TMA) level checks are required on first contact with approach sectors as a double-check that the level which the a/c is descending to is the same as the one it was released to approach by the previous sector.

It's called "belt and braces".

[Lon More]

Yes, especially when transferred to a different unit. It verifies the Mode C flight level indication. if you don't give it we, at Maastricht , were required to ask it.

[expedite_climb]

HD, but not a passing one ?

Lon More - often still climbing is Maastricht out of london, and I never give the passing level again, the 'C' is already verified is my understanding. Nobody has ever asked for my passing level in this situation.

[FWA NATCA]

G,

The reason for the altitude report is to verify that the altitude that your transponder is sending is what we are seeing. It's the same with the Radar Contact when you depart, or are identified when you initially call on, it is to verify that you are who we tagged, or the computer auto tagged.

Mike

[Papa Lazarou]

As usual, off we wander...

[PPRuNe Radar]

UK AIP ENR 1.1.3 Para 1.1.1

The initial call changing radio frequency shall contain only the aircraft identification and the Flight Level. ................ (snipped)

Note: When changing frequency between any of the London Control, Scottish Control or Manchester Control Centres, pilots are required to state their callsign and Flight Level/Altitudes only (plus any other details when specifically instructed by ATC). When the aircraft is in level flight but cleared to another FL/ALT, both FL/ALT should be passed. Similarly when the aircraft is not in level flight, the pilot should state the FL/ALT through which the aircraft is passing and the FL/ALT to which it is cleared.

[Jerricho]

As usual, off we wander...

Ha! Course you would never go off on a tangent, would you now? :p

[ferris]

ICAO Doc 4444 requires a transponder check when passing from one 'unit' to another.

[eyeinthesky]

Most SID charts, especially those in the UK, require that you pass: Callsign, SID, altitude passing and cleared altitude on first contact.

This is for obvious reasons: To check your Mode C agrees with the level you report and to make sure you are going to stop your climb at the same level as the Contoller expects unless you are given further climb.

As for en route, we are also required to check that the level that showson strips and radar is the same as the one you say, and if you don't report it we are supposed to check. This is especially true if climbing or descending.

Is it really that difficult, even when passing through high levels on transfer to Maastricht, to say "Passing FLxxx for FLyyy"? It is certainly preferable to a nasty which might occur if you are not climbing or descending as well as the controller anticipated.

[BOBBLEHAT]

London TMA

NO except for : to the first radar unit on departure.

We'd prefer your cleared level, without knowing this we cannot (or should not) issue any executive instructions.

I'm sure someone will contradict me.

[normally left blank]

The "passing call" is perhaps also beneficial for other traffic to keep sit. awareness?

[Phoenix_X]

Eyeinthesky said:

Is it really that difficult, even when passing through high levels on transfer to Maastricht, to say "Passing FLxxx for FLyyy"? It is certainly preferable to a nasty which might occur if you are not climbing or descending as well as the controller anticipated.

No, it's not that difficult! The question is, do you want us to do it, or do you think we're wasting the frequency doing it. It's not such a strange question, is it? (And BTW, I was always tought not to use Passing .... CLIMBING/DESCENDING ... instead of FOR to avoid confusion :D).

So judging from this, do most of you agree that reporting passing lvl when changing center (not station) is generally a good idea, and will please most countries/centers, and will not displease too many others?

[Sonnendec]

Hello.

In Canarias, we are supposed to get the callsign, position and flight level on first contact when coming from another FIR. The reality is that a lot of pilots dont report all that info, and telling you the truth, it doesnt make much difference if thw traffic comes from a radar environment (i.e. Lisboa Control).

If we have doubts, we just confirm the info with: IBEXXXX, radar identified ten miles to XXXXX level 330...". With the "radar identified" the pilot is dismissed of any position and level reports, as long as the radar signal is continuous and accurate.

On the non-radar area, the pilot has to give us the ETA for the next two points and the flight level (mandatory!), because this is the information we use to give separation in the non-radar areas. If we believe the information that the pilot is giving us is not accurate, we usually try to cofirm it with the pilot, and if the difference persists, then we just inform the pilot that his separation will be based on the information he is giving us (and most of the time they double check the estimates and find the gap).

Controlling an airspace divided between radar and non-radar environment is extremely interesting, if any of you get to come to Gran Canaria, make us a visit at the ACC, we are open 24 hours a day ;)

Best regards.

[5milesbaby]

The UK En-Route sectors can assume a validated Mode A and therefore verified associated Mode C readout when an a/c is transferred from a unit/radar position deemed capable of doing such tasks, this includes Terminal Control unless its first contact from Tower (on departure). Therefore a passing level is not needed on contact, however the current level if in the cruise or cleared level if climbing or descending MUST be passed before any executive instruction can be given, this is to ensure you are complying with the last expected instruction. If you are at a level and have been given a clearance for another level but not yet left, both levels must be reported (ie Maintaining FL###, cleared FL### when ready to be level by.......) Any Mode C inacurracies must be passed on to each sector in turn so no phonecall means Mode C all in order.

[dvdr]

In short ,yes, report your passing level and cleared level everytime. If you are in level flight report it. Better safe than sorry. In the uk we are meant to allow the pilot to report his level on transfer and if they dont we should ask or confirm the level.