pax versus cargo

[slicer23]

Hi, I'm doing a research paper on the differences in crm between passenger carrying operations and freight operations. I'm having a little trouble finding information on this subject.

Some things I'm looking for are crm costs to the airline for training, crm training for new hires, and any other crm related information.

Any help in pointing me in the right direction would be appreciated. thanks.

[wheelbarrow]

There is no difference. It's going to be a boring paper.

[redsnail]

The main CRM difference is you don't have to worry about the "cabin" when you have a problem. So you don't have to worry about briefing the FA's. Note, the FA's can be a good source of info too so freight pilots lose that. You don't have to worry about talking to the passengers and using non alarming language.
Between the flight crew, ops, ground crew there's no difference.
To sum up, you have less people to communicate to.

[alf5071h]

I sense that crews have different approaches to each operation. After investigating a limited number of incidents I conclude that cargo crews accept higher levels of turbulence, fly closer to the edge of storms, and are generally less aware of safety threats that would have an effect on a passenger, than would the corresponding pax crew.

[Phil Squares]

alf5071h.....

I fly both pax and freight. I can tell you the only one I am really thinking about is me. I would challenge you on your statement about cargo crews.
From my perspective, a mishap can occur if you have 400 pax or 100 tonnes of cargo. It doesn't make any difference at all!!!!

:ok:

[Daysleeper]

alf5071h
make sure you are comparing like with like. Your analysis would be flawed if you compare a central african cargo operator flying 50 year old ex-soviet military freighters with a western european passenger operator in a brand new airbus.

[alf5071h]

Daysleeper, as I said - within my experience - I judge that there are differences between pax and cargo ops. The specific operations that I investigated included a high profile European and a Far-East branch of a similar high profile cargo operator.

Clearly it is not possible to make exact comparisons due to the differences in each operation, excepting perhaps the experiences represented by Phil Squares, a mix of pax and cargo. I firmly believe that my comparisons are balanced as far as practicable.

However, your posts raise interesting questions:

Q1. Is the operational culture of a particular cargo operation more influential than the national culture (location) as suggested by Daysleeper? i.e. Europe is better than Africa (I am not slating the good operations in Africa).

Or

Q2. Are the operational cultures in mixed pax/cargo operations beneficial to managing in-flight hazards, as opposed to pure cargo operations? The premise is that in my experience, pure cargo ops showed a lower standard of airmanship than for those operators of the same aircraft type in a pax operation.

If the answer to Q1 is yes then this may represent the classic difference in standards around the world, and thereafter the many different approaches to CRM possibly due to national, corporate, or individual culture. In addition this may indicate that good African operators, indeed any operator pax or cargo, has a good culture in one form or another – and that this culture probably includes good CRM.

Whereas a yes answer to Q2 suggests that pax/cargo crews have appropriate awareness of hazards during pax ops. This awareness is transferred to cargo ops and is indicated by a more professional approach in dealing with in-flight hazards i.e. turbulence, CBs.

Negative answers would require explanation of the existence of good cargo operations in Africa (Q1), or why are the risks in cargo operations much higher than pax operations (Q2)? Arguments for and against are in the link.

There is evidence that cargo operations are less safe than pax operations; a detailed study is here, with selected quotes below - An Analysis of the Safety Performance of Air Cargo Operators (http://www.flightsafety.org/pubs/fsd_2001.html). July 2001
Other studies show a similar difference e.g cargo ops and ferry flights have five times higher CFIT risk than pax ops.
The accident rate for cargo operations conducted by major operators is more than three times higher than the accident rate for passenger operations conducted by major operators;

In Africa, the accident rate for cargo operations conducted by state-owned airlines is two times higher than the accident rate for cargo operations conducted by privately owned airlines.

There is no difference between the accident rate for passenger operations by state-owned airlines and the accident rate for passenger operations by privately owned airlines;

When the types of accidents that occurred in cargo operations and in passenger operations are compared, there are no significant differences in the relative distribution. This indicates that the higher accident rate for cargo operations cannot be attributed to a single cause;

Compared with accidents in passenger operations, accidents in cargo operations occur more frequently in the takeoff phase and the climb phase;

Both cargo aircraft and passenger aircraft have lower accident rates for aircraft of a newer generation;
ALF

[calypso]

Slightly off topic here but how about the difference between operating with Pax and positioning an empty aircraft. I find that there is a difference and on ocassions standards can be lower.