RYANAIR PAY CUTS !

[ALLRIGHTFORTHEHEIGHT]

All the captains that were sent to Charleroi (Brussels south (EBCI)) are getting A £7000 pay cut because the beancounters say that the cost of living is cheaper over there
Pity they were not told this before they started their command training

[This message has been edited by ALLRIGHTFORTHEHEIGHT (edited 23 April 2001).]

[THINALBERT]

I may have missed something here but to my mind a salary is a salary and totally indepenent of any EXTRA cost of living allowance that may be paid IN ADDITION to basic salary.

Have a close look at your contracts and find yourselves a good lawyer is my advice.

Best of luck

[StressFree]

Apologies in advance for being thick but where is CRL?

------------------
'Keep the Stress Down'

[aeroguru]

No, not so thick.I had to look it up.
It is Charleroi, which Ryanair are using from April 26th advertised as Brusselles.

[ALLRIGHTFORTHEHEIGHT]

STRESSFREE,AEROGURU
Sorry I was just being lazy

[Shanwick Shanwick]

Stress Free,

We went there 25th June 1993 in VR-BNB and sat around the terminal for 4 hours.

The onset of Alzheimers is nigh!

Brgds

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hhhiiisssssccrrrraaaacckkkllesssshhhhhh

[wage slave]

Is this company for real?? Cutting salary because "Cost of living in Belgium less than Ireland or UK!" I thought this was a wind-up when I heard it last week. Should have known better.
This must be resisted NOW or the next base will feature even lower fares - oops - sorry, salaries.

[StressFree]

Shanwick,
Did we really go to CRL? Blimey I'd forgotten all about it.............
My efforts to mentally erase all my memories of working for In...te must have been successful!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers.

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

------------------
'Keep the Stress Down'

[SkyClear]

BALPA are aware of the situation. Advice is DO NOT sign anything and give them a call.

[ALLRIGHTFORTHEHEIGHT]

Contracts were demanded to be returned signed by last friday unless those new captains want to be F.O.'s for a long time



[This message has been edited by ALLRIGHTFORTHEHEIGHT (edited 24 April 2001).]

[Maxfli]

You've got to admit FR are a class outfit.

[Tower]

Well, well, the Ryans have come up trumps yet again. When will they learn that they cannot mess these guys around.

So much for the new pay deal.

[springbok449]

Charleroi is a small little airfield (decent size runway) about 45 minutes drive away south from Brussels. The city is very run down and unemployment is quite high as most of the steel and coal industries have now ceased operations there, so hopefully with Ryanair opening a base there things will improve a little.

[ohopy]

It appears EZY will do the same when/if it opens the AMS base!

[nice_beaver]

Altho this is changing the subject a bit i think the EZY case will be some-what different. As i understand it the pay and conditions for a Dutch base will be industry led by reference to the current Dutch operators at SPL and ratified by Dutch employment law and paid in local currency as a stand alone overseas base not unlike the current Swiss base.

[fopaddy]

Once again FR management are trying the boundaries of the Pilot Group. A clever try, with a well divided, diverse and not at all united Pilot Body, management see their chance to make a new cost saving. That is how they work, reduce cost at every chance. Fair play to the newly promoted Captains who are handing back their Commands in protest at the pay cuts.

Stand beside those Captains who are about to become FOs again on the 25/4/01. They are sacrificing months of hard work, sweat, checks and final checks. Stand united with them, dont break ranks. Tomorrow it will be pay cuts for everyone, every new base, every new transfer if we let it through.

Come on guys, off the fence, Irish, British, Yugoslav, Kiwi, Russian, American or whatever. This means you. Stand by your colleagues. It may be you who need the backing next week.

[ohopy]

Nice Beaver
Why is this "changing the subject".
Is this not a similar operator,
My wood chomping friend!!

[TwoDeadDogs]

Typical ***** from them indoors.I worked for five months in Charleroi a few years ago.The costs are roughly the same as any modest UK/Irish town.Anything remotely connected with Brussels is expensive.It's a bit dull as a place to live,alright,but not a bad spot to tour from.
regards
TDD

[Maxfli]

As Ryanair advertise that they fly to Brussels should not the crews based in Brussels get comparable expenses those professionals seconded or serving in our EuroCapital Brussels, which would be consederably greater than those who are based in Dublin, Stansted, Luton or Prestwick.

[Silent Duggan]

Here's the real story so far......

Five Ryanair FOs were promoted over the last two months. These promotions were accepted on the agreement that they would have to move base to either STN or CRL. They were promoted by Jim Duggan and have operated in the left seat since.

On April 12th contracts were issued to the five, two moving to STN and three moving to CRL. The contracts contained a few issues which needed clarification before they could be signed (the base changes have never been disputed):

an IEP8000 pay cut for those going to CRL

a clause that further base transfers would be "in accordance with the prevailing salary and flight pay system in operation at that base"

a local flight pay system for CRL was mentioned but details were not given


The contracts were returned last weekend unsigned but with a covering letter accepting the change of base but requesting further information on the above points.

On Monday April 23rd letters were given to the five from John Osborne but signed by Declan Dooney stating that if the contracts were not signed by close of business on that day that demotion to FO would follow. Replies were sent requesting clarification on the above points before signing.

Another letter was issued to the five yesterday (April 24th)giving them another chance to sign by close of business yesterday. No further information was given by the company on the issues so the contracts were not signed.

As of midnight last night the five are demoted to FO, there salaries have been cut and Ryanair are looking for direct entry Captains to replace them.

As I type this they are in the sim in Dublin being requalified in the right seat.

This is the most serious development in Ryanair for years and affects every FO both present and future.

Just consider the following:

no change of base was ever disputed

an illegal pay cut was being forced on them

the company demanded an imcomplete contract to be signed

no details of the CRL flight pay system have ever been given

and, perhaps most serious, no contact was made by Jim Duggan. Why do we have a Chief Pilot?


Lets give the five our support in this most serious development.

Thank You.

[THINALBERT]

I really cannot believe that a company can get away with treating its workforce like this nowadays. I am not in Ryan Air but I wholeheartedly support your standpoint. Unfortunately, nothing short of a total strike will get their attention.

All the time you are complaining and/or negotiating you are still doing your job and thats all Ryan care about.

You may have to see this all the way thru to the end.

I wish you well.

[wage slave]

Well put, Silent Duggan!

This cannot be allowed to happen. Now is the time for all of us to support the newly elected pilot committee who are handling this in a very sensible manner.

What the company are doing MUST be illegal. Are IMPACT/IALPA going to look for an injunction to stop Ryanair in its tracks.

Each and every one of the pilot body must stand up and be counted on this one.
No Captain should transfer to Charleroi at a lower salary.
No F/O should accept a command until this is sorted.

Finally, we should use word of mouth and, of course, PPRuNe to tell the wider aviation community:

DON'T JOIN RYANAIR

Just say NO. Message will be understood.....eventually.


PS perhaps Danny should now remove Ryanairs Banner ad from the site - after all it is now false advertising as the salaries are no longer whats promised? We'll have a whipround in the White House to recompense the PPRuNe coffers!

[James T. Kirk]

How about another whip round to help fund the pilots during the upcoming strike?

[EvilTwinRating]

Best of Luck to all Ryanair pilots involved.

This is truly disgraceful treatment by Ryanair. People must support these lads by not giving in & not taking these Direct Entry Captains positions or else this is going to keep happening. The pay cut is bad but the demotions are beyond belief.

If you are an experienced Jet Driver at the moment then I don't think its likely that FR will be your only emplpoyment option-please dont let Ryanair treat aircrews like this.

Strike seems like the best bet right now.

[BEagle]

Wel, I was considering flying RyanAir later this year. I certainly won't do so now - it's not just the absurdity of their obscure destinations which are peddled under the name of some city miles away (like where-the-hell-is-Hahn, Brussels Charleroi etc), I just will NOT fly with a company which treats its pilots so badly and runs some sort of dutch auction for LHS time for its senior F/Os!

Stick it, you mean-minded idiot! And I hope your SLF vote with their feet. It's all you deserve!

[Silent Duggan]

Our chief pilot is now playing happy families in Charleroi. It appears that personnel are now running flight ops!

'Its life Jim but not as we know it'

[Chutney]

Here is a quote from TravelMole.com (http://www.travelmole.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=45101&d=101&h=303&f=304&dateformat=%o%20%B%20%Y) about the information posted here.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Ryanair chief executive dismisses pilots' pay argument

Ryanair chief executive Michael O’Leary has dismissed arguments over pilots’ pay at its new Charleroi airport base in Belgium.

Some pilots have argued that it is unfair that pay levels are less at the new base - also known as Brussels South - than they are at Stansted. But Mr O'Leary claims that pay levels differ in each of the airline’s three bases (Stansted, Dublin and Charleroi) to take into account different exchange rates, inflationary pressures and the cost of living.

Mr O’Leary conceded that the Charleroi-based pilots would not be paid as much as their Stansted counterparts of the same rank, but argued that all the pilots concerned are “actually getting a pay rise” because all those who are moving to the new base are also being promoted from first officer ranking to captain.

He told TravelMole: “Because they are all being promoted their pay will be significantly higher than it was before. But we do have have different pay in different bases and there will probably be a difference of about £4,000 or £5,000 compared to the same rank in Stansted.”

Mr O’Leary added: “No one will be paid less than before and it’s entirely their choice if they want to move or not.”

According to Mr O'Leary, a typical annual pilots salary at Ryanair is £50,000 per year for a second officer, £60,000 to £70,000 for a first officer and £90 to £100,000 for a captain.</font>

[fopaddy]

MOL feels that he has the Pilots where he wants them now, issuing £100,000 in share options to settle the last dispute. But what no one knew was that a proviso in these share options was that " they become null and void if there is ANY form of industrial action by the Pilots.

Really guys, grow up, do you actually believe that you will ever see a penny out of this deal. I dont think so.

Its our careers, its our lives, our families. Lets not allow him to reduce what we work so hard for. Remember that man has shareholders to answer to.

[FlapsOne]

So let's get this right.

According to MOL, if a Capt earns £IR90, and an FO earns £IR50, it's OK to promote the FO to Capt on a salary of £IR80 because ".......he's getting a payrise anyway..."

Referee.........!!!!!!!!!!!

[SkyClear]

'Mr O’Leary added: “No one will be paid less than before and it’s entirely their choice if they want to move or not.”'

-This is a lie.

'According to Mr O'Leary, a typical annual pilots salary at Ryanair is £50,000 per year for a second officer, £60,000 to £70,000 for a first officer and £90 to £100,000 for a captain.'

-This is just bulls**t!

In such biased publishings, when do the pilots ever get their say. Maybe it is time that we did. I vote strike, that's the only voice we have. Who cares about the 100k that has been said, we're not going to get anyway.

[wage slave]

Poor old Michael ain't too good with basic maths either. Let's see .....

STN Capt = STG47905
CRL Capt = IR£41708=STG£33500 (approx £STG=IR£0.8)

Doesn't look like a difference of 4 or 5 thousand to me. C'mon, Michael, get real and start treating your pilots like human beings. Then you can work on the concept of pilots as professionals.

thisdoesn't need a strike to sort it out. JUST SAY NO! It's that simple. Michael needs Captains at Charleroi. If F/O's continue to say NO and DE Capts refuse his offers to come on board, he will have to give in.

Stick together boys. Don't fall for the old FR trick of playing one guy or group off against the rest.

[sofsonteaser]

&gt;Red-liner&gt; guess you are not going, are you? In the company I work for it is normal procedure to have a pay raise and not a pay cut. I miss your laudatory comments. Are you speechless or are you busy collecting sector pay. :)Or you are maybe on your way to the bank cutting expenses to afford changing to Belgium base. :)

&gt;IHAWK&gt; Have you got what you want? Keep up the spirit in your Spitfire interest, and please stay out of areas witch you would never know anything about. At least get 10 hours in a real airplane before pretending to know something from any airline business http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif

[Wing Commander Fowler]

Sounds like that old John Osborne strikes again. You Ryanair guys were warned.

Good luck now

[Up in arms]

Further news...

Some of the guys were actually paid Dublin Captains salary for part of March. This was then deducted from their April cheques. No explanatory details on the payslip.
Shabby or what?

If these guys were not really Captains for the last few weeks, then were dozens of sectors flown with no captain on board???

IAA, please examine!

[Tower]

It's time to stop whinging and start acting.
Guys O'Leary has you bent over a desk with your trousers down. Stike now and show him that you will not stand for this nonsense.

[Flap 5]

Now there's a funny thing. When I was promoted from F/O to Captain many years ago after two months of virtually continuous line checks (so called command 'training') and several simulator check rides and then to accept the responsibility of being in command of every flight thereafter, I did not really think of it as a 'payrise'!

[boxmover]

As a commercial pilot your personal conditions should be at the top of your agenda.
Minimising them is most certainly a the top of your managers agenda!!

[ALLRIGHTFORTHEHEIGHT]

Every other pilot in FR. should do their best to help the lads
ie. stop working their days off to let MOL know that he needs to make these guys up.
A few more stranded pax. ringing The Joe Duffy Show can't be good for his PR.

[Celtic Emerald]

What a pity!

The FR pilots have always treated me with exemplary kindness endulging my interest in aviation down to the last whim.

They recented published a list of the richest people in Ireland, Michael O' Leary figured high up there, now I know why :mad:

I'm sorry that the FR pilots are being treated like this, how sad considering any I've met have been such thorough gentlemen.

________________________________________
The grass isn't always greener on the other side

[Flight_Finder]

THE WEAKEST LINK

"you are a group of grown people, thrown together by faith, sadly, one of you will give in"......................

"Now who is the weakest link? the ones who move to CRL, you are being mislead by the wonderful PR machine that is your company. I gaurantee one of you will falter and take the money.......forever condeming you all to lower salaries at a time when you should be enjoying more".

...............So who will be the weakest link............

Tune in soon.


Flight_Finder

PS&gt;.............it's exactly the same fight as the travel agents...........there was one greedy one who dragged the rest down....don't bet on soladarity

[Maxfli]

Unfortunately you will always find a few who will take the job as in Atlas/AACS etc. The problem which may arise for future FR F/Os who accept a command course and pass is that the company may sorry your copilot position has been filled, so its LHS in CRL or the door. It's not a problem for any of us who don't work for FR but for those of you who do and are in the RHS, your house needs to be got in order.

Things like 250kts in the cruise and flap 40 from 15 miles and slower taxi speeds will get MOLs attention, but most of all you need support from those in the LHS in STN & DUB.

[circle2land]

Ah, Mr Osborne strikes again.
Some people never change. My sympathy to all at FR.