Speed control on MAN STARs

[SLT]

Just a quick question for MAN ATCOs!! On our arrival plates it states (from memory): "Cross the SLP or 3 mins before the holding fix at 250kt or less when at FL140 or below". Now, I find this a little confusing. I'm fine with it as far as it goes (i.e. literally), so we don't infringe other holds etc, but does this infer that we should be at 250 below FL140, even when we are nowhere near the SLP or more than 3 mins from the fix? The reason I ask is that there has been a little discussion on this amongst our pilots of late. Let's say that we are given an early descent for traffic to FL120 which results in us being level at 120 about 10 mins before the fix, and nowhere near the SLP. Should we be at 250kt because we are below 140, or can we wait to decelerate so long as we meet the 250kt 3 mins before? Some guys seem to interpret this as that we should be 250 below 140 any time, much like the normal 250 below 100. Right or wrong?

:O

[Fidgell]

As long as youre at 250kts by the SLP thats fine no matter what level youre at... :O

[SLT]

Thanks Fidgell! But what happens if you're not going to the SLP e.g. MIRSI arrival (SLP is WAL), but cleared direct to MIRSI. Obviously you're going to make sure you are 250kt 3 mins before MIRSI, but can you maintain a higher speed up until that point even if you're below FL140? Or is it 250 below 140 regardless?
:ok:

[Fidgell]

Obviously the "official" line would be as per the book, but for me and the vast majority of my colleagues, in your example Id expect 250kts by the SLP or abeam it ie WAL here. The below 140 restriction isnt something we worry about, but being at or below FL80, if so cleared, by the holding fix is pretty much vital and takes precedent. So, as long as youre at 250kts at or abeam the SLP and dont hit the stacks high we're all happy bunnies!!!

[Del Prado]

May be wrong but I think the FL 140 is a level above which you do not have to be at 250kts when passing the speed limit point.

You only have to be 250kts at the SLP or 3 minutes from the fix when below FL140

[SLT]

Thanks for all the input so far guys, but the way this is being interpreted by some of our chaps is as effectively a replacement for the 250 below 10. I.e. that you must be 250 below 140 wherever you are on a MAN arrival, whether you are near the SLP/fix or not. Which appears not to be true. Ah well!!!!

Cheers all!! :O

[unwiseowl]

I think Del Prado has it right - if you hit the SLP at, say, FL 170, you can keep high speed until you get down to FL140, when you shoud be @ 250.

[250 kts]

I wish you lot would stop talking about me:ok: :ok: :cool: :cool:

250 kts.