Transceiver/GPS equipment advice

[Irishwingz]

Hello Aviation World

I'm a private pilot who wants some back up for the onboard radios (plus to listen to ATC for recreation)and also backup for navigation purposes.

I am going to purchase a transceiver (likely model is the Icom A23) and also a GPS handheld (no idea which one!)
I just have some questions:

1) should I buy seperate items or is there a device that does both and save money - (in the form of a handheld?)

2)Does this transceiver model allow YOU to talk to ATC also - I'm pretty sure transceiver means this but just checking!:D

3)will a transceiver/GPS unit bought in the states work in Europe/NZ/the world?

4)I need some guidance on an affordable handheld GPS - any tips? nothing fancy like moving map but just bare co-ordinates .

5) 2 websites in the US (avshop.com/sports.com) are pricing the Icom at similar prices ($400), any other worthwhile websites out there?

Thanks for any advice on all or some of the above.

Much appreciated

Irishwingz:}

[Flyin'Dutch']

The ICOM is a good choice, but beware that ICOM Europe issued an edict some time ago that they would not honour any warranty claims from non EU bought sets.

Not sure how that would stand up in court but may be not much point in trying to find that out the hard way. Having said that I have ond myself and never had any problems with it and know of a lot of folks that have one too and all good experiences AFAIK.

If it is for emergency use only you may want to consider to buy a battery pack with it as the rechargeable NiCad pack is less good at retaining its charge over the course of some years.

Regarding the GPS I would be tempted to get a Pilot 3 as they are great sets with good functionality.

Combined sets never seem to have taken off as I initially suspected, the battery drain of the GPS makes the combination probably less functional than one would expect at face value.

FD

[IO540]

Irishwingz

Icom A23 is great, and it can also receive VORs (at least I think the A23 can, maybe it's the next model along, the A22?). I've had the VOR version for several years.

There is also a very cheap empty battery pack case which takes ten AA cells, and this is great to carry as a spare. The NICD or NIMH rechargeable pack that comes with it self discharges after a few months, as do most rechargeable battery technologies. Alkaline cells will last for years and are much better as genuine emergency batteries.

There are a couple of obscure GPS/COM units, as FD says they've never taken off.

There are as many views on a GPS as there are users :O but consider the mounting. In your own plane you can mount something properly. If renting, you may want a leg-strap unit and the Skymap 2 is a good choice for that. The Garmins tend to be suited to yoke mounting or instrument-panel-top mounting; the 195 is one exception but it is a very old (1995) unit on which some people have reported weird accuracy problems.

Most handheld GPSs can have the flight plan loaded from a PC program like Navbox (www.navbox.nl) and that is definitely worth doing.

[bookworm]

There are a couple of obscure GPS/COM units, as FD says they've never taken off.

You're right -- the Garmin GPSCOM 190 for example, has been discontinued without a replacement.

But it surprises me. I've operated two aircraft, and in both we've had an "emergency box" with a transceiver and a GPS set. Because we already had the individual items, we used them, but if I needed to buy the same functionality I wouldn't hesitate to get a GPS-COM: one battery to keep in date instead of two, fewer wires trailing around, less space, etc.

Don't other pilots carry similar backup?

[dublinpilot]

4)I need some guidance on an affordable handheld GPS - any tips? nothing fancy like moving map but just bare co-ordinates .

Just a quick comment on this. I understand where you are comming from, but would think that you should consider a moving map, which has no data on it, except points you add, as a minimum. If you refer to your gps to confirm that you are where you expected to be, and it doesn't agree, then trying to read those co-ordinates and work out where that is on a map, would be pretty difficult when the work load is high, and you are trying to keep a good look out too.

Just a thought. Maybe someone who has one with just co-ordinates might be able to better advise you on that.

dp

[Flyin'Dutch']

I would even go further than that DP.

The only time you will need your 'stand by' GPS in anger will be when the chips are down.

Probably not the time you want to have to convert raw data into a map position.

Much more helpful to have a GPS with a database and a GoTo button which can save your bacon.

See what you are saying Bookworm. The Lance has a 295 on the yoke which is permanently charged up by the board net via the yoke mount and a handheld radio which is fed from the board net and kept to the left of the P1 seat.

Further a Pilot 3 and Icom in the flightbag.

Belts and braces is the name of the game.

FD

[IO540]

bookworm

Perhaps the answer is that the usage is different.

We are looking at airborne emergency use here, I think.

If you don't have a headset adaptor (not many people have them!) then when you hold the transceiver to your head you can't see the GPS.

If you do have a headset adaptor you will still have to hold the transceiver up so the aerial isn't shielded by the cockpit. Very few people will have an external aerial socket they can plug it into.

Finally I don't really know anybody directly with a plane with a panel mounted transceiver and GPS, who also carries a handheld transceiver and a battery powered GPS when they fly. Lots of people have a portable GPS (because there isn't one in the plane) but transceivers are rare. I have an emergency bag with an Icom, a Skymap 2 GPS, an EPIRB and some other stuff, plus external VHF and GPS aerials to plug the stuff into, but a non-owner can't really go drilling holes everywhere :O

And the mid-1990s-generation products (which the combined units were) had very low resolution moving map screens. I wouldn't buy a 10 year old GPS anyway; all the anecdotal reports I've heard of GPS reading a far-off position without making it obvious, applied to those products.

[englishal]

The TB20 I rent has a panel mounted GPS, but also a 295 on the yoke. Good combo, when combined with my trust eTrek in my flight case.

The eTrek is really cheap at sub £100, but good. Its has 500 user definable waypoints, which I get from the FAA database via aeroplanner.com. Thes include all airfields, navaids, intersections etc etc for anywhere on earth, which means you need to have at least 500 user definable waypoint locations. Also the battery life is excellent at around 10hrs on 2 AA's. Has a simple moving map, but no basemap, ie. all you see are your stored waypoints, which again suits me as I use it around the world. For UK nav, I use it in conjunctin with a pocketPC running Memory Map and the CAA digital charts, and its brilliant.......

I also have a Yaesu Aviator ProII which is a good unit, bought in the US for not a lot. Comes with headset adaptor, and works well.

I would avoid going for a GPS/Com combo myself. If one ges tits, you've probably lost both.

Cheers
EA

[IO540]

englishal

Agreed, but would you really recommend a NON-moving map GPS to someone new to the business?

I think that of those who have got lost with a GPS (examples of which are quoted with such relish in the CAA and MCASD 121.5 service personnel briefings "we've had even more people call D&D since GPS came along"), most have done it by getting the numbers wrong while not having the situational awareness to spot it.

You probably also use navaids but most PPL-level GPS users rely on the GPS totally; fine in good VMC because one can see the features down below. They usually have little choice, given the junk that's normally available for rental :O

The diff between a really good aviation GPS and something from Millets is an hour or three of self fly hire.

[S-Works]

IO540,

I must be the exception to your rule! I have a Garmin 196 battery powered AND mains powered as well as the GNS430. On the pillar on the right of this picture I have a Icom A22E handheld that has both headset adaptor and conenction to com 3 on the audio panel. The white cable you can see connects the radio to the audio panel adn you can just see the black headset adaptors that allow direct connection of the headset of the panel failed. In a total electrical failure I therefore have backup GPS and backup comm and at a push back up VOR from the A22e

You can never be too carefull!!!



http://www.nobubbles.co.uk/aviation/ppifr.jpg

[IO540]

bose-x

Indeed you are - impressive panel, if it all works, FM immune, it must be worth a lot more than the aircraft?? A GNS430 alone is £7k installed, plus VAT.

Incidentally, in a plane with 2 COM/NAV boxes, it would be easy enough to wire up the 2nd box to be fed via diodes from either the existing bus, or from a backup lead-acid battery. This would cover the total electrical failure scenario. But for some reason one cannot get it certified.

I've tried to fix the ICOM on a "permanent" mounting bracket but there isn't any room. Also if I was leaving via the liferaft, I would try to grab it.

What's needed is a quick-release product which does GPS and VHF comms and EPIRB, and which is battery powered and trickle-charged, visible from the P1 position and sealed to IP68 :O Technically perfectly feasible; debt collection in this cash-strapped GA marketplace would be THE challenge...

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

you should consider a moving map, which has no data on it, except points you add

If that is a definition of "moving map", then it must be virtually impossible to buy a handheld GPS without one. Even my GPS12, which was the cheapest I could find 3 years ago (£85), has one.

I would consider a true moving map to have, as a bare minimum, a built in database of "line" features such as coastlines, roads etc.

TG.

[NinjaBill]

Hi there bose, what is the digital instrument at the bottom right hand side of the pannel?

NB

[S-Works]

IO540, gadgets are priceless and strangely enough I have never been lost!! If you think there are a lot of avionics you should see the other mods, it is a hard aircraft to catch!

ninjabil, It is a FuelScan 450 fuel computer which along with the altitide encoder is also interfaced into the Garmin 430. It gives fuel flow, required fuel to waypoint, mpg, fuel on board, left over etc. When you know how much fuel you are using it is amzing just how far a Cessna is REALLY capable of flying!