Visa requirements for the USA - another change

[chrisbl]

I had this response from the US embassy this week and thought that it would be useful to post it here. The moderator might like to think about making it a sticky.

If you are to receive flight training in the U.S. you will require an F-1,M-1 or J-1 visa. You should contact the flight school which will provide you with either an I-20F or M, or a DS-2019 which is required to apply for the visa.

If you have a private pilots license and you merely wish to build up flight hours, you will require a B-2 visa. While you may be eligible to travel visa free under the Visa Waiver Program, if otherwise qualified, since the introduction of the Applicability of Aviation and Transportation Security Act, we would recommend that you apply for a B-2 visa.
When applying for the B-2 visa and entry into the U.S. you will be required to furnish a letter from the flight school stating the type of aircraft you will be flying.

Detailed information on visa application procedures and advice on how to schedule an interview at the Embassy is available from our website at www.usembassy.org.uk

If your flight school cannot issue you with the appropriate form then we regret that you cannot apply for the necessary visa.

Thank you for your email correspondence.

Consular Information Unit
U.S. Embassy London
CONS/CIU/GMS

[FlyingForFun]

Chris,

That doesn't sound like a "change" to me at all.While you may be eligible to travel visa free under the Visa Waiver Program, if otherwise qualified, since the introduction of the Applicability of Aviation and Transportation Security Act, we would recommend that you apply for a B-2 visa.If you search for posts by me (and others) on the subject (if the search facility is enabled), you'll see that this is what I've been suggesting for a couple of years.

The only thing in your post which I find at all surprising is the preceding sentence:...you will require a B-2 visaSince this is a direct contradiction of the sentence which follows it, I would guess that the author of the reply you received has used the phrase "will require" incorrectly, and s/he actually meant "might like to obtain". It might be worth contacting them again to point out the apparent contradiction between "will require" and "we would recommend", but I think you will find that it is only a recommendation. I'll wait to be corrected, though.

FFF
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[chrisbl]

FFF,

The changeseems to be the advice about the B2 visa and that is significant. Sure there is a contradiction but next time I want to hour build, I might follow the advice and get the B2 visa as that is appears to be a conservative form of action.

The daft thing though is that having a visa draws attention to yourself whereas not having one does not.

It is clear that the Americans are struggling to get to grips with this but sit this alongside the proposals to strengthen security at GA airfields with TSA staff, having a visa might just seem the safest way to about hour building.

At the end of the day, it is a matter of choice. Likewise it is for the Immigration Official at the port of entry as to whether you get in.

For me, the choice will be to get a B2 visa - its more hassle but what the heck, its their country and they can do what they like.

[englishal]

What they haven't told you is that if you travel to the States for a holiday under the visa waiver program, you are stamped in B2 anyway. The only difference having a visa makes is that you can remain in the US for up to 180 days, and not 90 as is under the VWP.

Cheers
EA

[chrisbl]

FFF,

I emailed them for clarification. You are right about it being a recommendation but it is more emphatic than a desire especially in the context of hourbuilding. This is the clarification:

"Some travelers are eligible to travel under the Visa Waiver Program in lieu of a B-2 visa. While you may meet the requirements for visa free travel, we recommend that you apply for a visa, which will ease your entry into the United States. Please bear in mind, however, that the information above is only appropriate if you are only building up flight hours."


As I say, it depends on your propensity to accept advice. I am no consular official, but when you stand in front of an Immigration Officer at a port of Entry the last thing you want to try and do is be smart. Their decision on entry is final.

[FlyingForFun]

Chris,

Thanks very much for clarifying. As I said earlier, the situation hasn't changed in the last couple of years.

My advice has always been to get a Visa if you have the time. I have still yet to hear of anyone being kicked out of the country for trying to enter to hour-build without a Visa - I did so myself when I didn't have time to arrange a Visa, and didn't have any trouble - but all it takes is one official who doesn't know the rules, and the ramifications can be very severe.

The US is a great place to fly - well worth the bit of effort that's invovled in getting the paperwork sorted out properly, IMHO. Have fun over there! :ok:

FFF
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[tmmorris]

Does this apply if I'm going to the States on holiday, and flying is only incidental to the trip (I'm an FAA PPL holder)? I'm going for 2 week but only expecting to fly 2/3 times.

Tim

[chrisbl]

Last year when I went to the US to do some training I did have the visa (M1) and came up against a right **** of an Immigration Official who seriously seem to think I was a risk to national security.

I presented all the forms, answered all the questions although he did not understand the answers. I showed him my knowledge test result paper and still he was not satisfied. My family were with me (on visa waivers) and as I am pushing 50 I must have looked the real terrorist deal.

He went off to consult with a colleague (you know how bad it is when the queue in your line disappears. I our case all the queues in the hall had disappeared.

Straight up this Immigration Official said that he had to check this out in case I was a member of ABU NIDAL.

I was tempted to tell the pig that Abu Nidal was a man not a group and that he had been killed in Bagda by Sadaam Hussein.

Anyway, I had my fingers scanned my photo taken and let in.

The Immigration Officials are a law unto themselves.

As to what you do if you are on a family holiday, just use the visa waiver and forget about flying unless you want to go for a scenic tour.

Unless you have gone though the licence validation process and got your FAA certificate then you will not be able to fly solo, and unless it is a pleasure flight then instruction is not allowed.

[FlyingForFun]

Chris,

I quite agree that "The Immigration Officials are a law unto themselves" - glad you got things sorted out, though.

I can't agree with your advice to Tim, though, on several points:

"Unless you have gone though the licence validation process and got your FAA certificate..." Tim has an FAA license, he's already said so.

"Unless it is a pleasure flight then instruction is not allowed." That's not true. Instruction is allowed so long as it is not for a license or rating. So a club checkout, type checkout (so long as there is no type rating for the type), differences training, and BFR are all examples of instruction which is allowed.

Tim - it's all down to evaluating the risks. As with hour-building, there is no reason why you can't do what you want to do on a Visa Waiver, but it certainly won't do any harm to have a B2 Visa. I might be tempted to go for it on the Visa Waiver in your position.... "I'm on a family holiday, but I hold a pilots license and I might hire an aircraft once or twice" sounds better than "I'm going to hire an aircraft and fly it around your country for a couple of weeks, and that's the only reason I'm here," and I think most immigration officials would realise that. But if you decide to go without a B2 Visa and get refused entry then please don't blame me!

FFF
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[englishal]

If you can get a B1/B2 visa then why not get one. In my experience it makes the whole pleasure of entering the USA so much more enjoyable.....:D, (and I believe they are valid for 10 years, at least mine is). It seems to help avoid awkward questions anyway. My tip would be to always just tell them you are on vacation, as you are. If you mention flying then they tend to get a bit twitchy. If they find your flying stuff later on and question you about it (which they never have to me) its not a problem, you always carry your flying stuff with you in case you decide to go for a flight.

Another tip, if you have 2 UK passports, try not to travel with both on you, if they search you and find the second, it can bring down a world of sh*t (speaking from experience:D)...

Have fun
EA

[B2N2]

Englishal, wait a sec.,
When you receive your visa (any kind) it will come with a letter that states ..." this visa does not garantee a right of entry.."
or something to that order.
Immigration at the port of entry decides wether to let you in or not.
In an extreme case they are well within their right to refuse entry to a visa holder.
Obviously a little less likely since you have been "pre-approved" by embassy/consulate but a definite chance if you "misbehave".
:} :} :}

[skydriller]

Hi all,

After reading Chrisbl's post I just thought I would tell everyone another tip when travelling to the US for any reason, not just flying.....

Always know an address you can write down on the immigration form for where you will stay in the US. I know it seems obvious, but I go to the US a fair bit on business, and usually the company arranges a hotel or has a business address I write down on the form, but the last time I went with zero notice and had nothing arranged, so just wrote 'Hotel', and the city etc... BIG mistake, major hassle at immigration - only the fact that I had loads/multiple entries on my passport and a proper business visa persuaded the guy to let me in, with the warning 'always write an address down from now on or we can refuse you entry'.

So if you are planning to tour the US, have at least one bit of accomodation planned you can write on the form. I could have made something up and the guy would have been happy:rolleyes: however I just told the guy the truth and got needless hassle:hmm: Some of these guys really are out there....

Regards, SD..

[englishal]

True..a visa does not "guarantee" entry, but from my experience (of many many enjoyable trip to the states), it does tend to make the INS official a little less likely to ask stupid questions. Still they're there for a reason and if you're honest and not breaking any rules there should be no problems. Last time me and my mates were grilled, we were travelling together though went through immigration seperately, and one of my dip sh*t mates, who went through first told the INS guy that we were there to "stay with my [as in me] girlfriends family". So we all got pulled and questioned as to why I (as a brit) would have an American girlfriend and did we plan to stay there illegally....yada yada yada. Luckily the 10 vodka and tonics on the way over made it much more pleasant, and when the INS guy realised that we really were only there to "get pissed and gamble in vegas" he was a very pleasant guy......(Jesus though, the hangover on the connecting flight was terrible, thought I was going to yak up for 4 hrs :yuk: )

Bye
EA:D