Stuka flying??

[airball]

Does any one know if there is an airworthy Stuka (JU 87?)dive bomber flying in the world.

[Oscar Duece]

Forgive me if I'm just dreaming it (been working many a long days lately).
But did I not see one listed in the new registration section of pilot last week ?

Looks like I was right. G-STUK JU87/R4 s/n 6234 (1941) owned by a guy in epsom ??:rolleyes:

[BRL]

There is also one in New Zealnd and I think two in California somewhere. Don't know exactly where though just remember someone talking about it ages ago.

Do you want to fly in one or something???

[airball]

Would love to fly one but thats unlikely, would just like to see one flying.As for one in Pilot last week I will look, strange if there was though

[QDMQDMQDM]

A dive bomb with siren from 8000 feet would be an impressive airshow act!

Not one for any Dunkirk veterans to sit through, though.

QDM

[AerBabe]

I work in Epsom; I'll have to keep my eyes (and ears!) open. :ok:

[DB6]

None flying in the world at the moment, the one in the new registration section is a restoration project. If you post this on the Nostalgia forum you will learn everything you ever wanted to know about Stukas.
I have long thought that a Stuka would be a show-stopping airshow display.

[Saab Dastard]

DB6

Especially if it didn't pull out of the dive :E

SD

[Timothy]

Look at where the Stuka owner in Epsom lives in Streetmap (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=519276&y=159959&z=0&sv=KT18+7LJ&st=2&pc=KT18+7LJ&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf). Looks uncannily like a target, don't it! :p

Incidentally, a little history lesson, that area of Epsom is called The Wells and is where the original Epsom Salts came from.

Timothy

[Thirty06]

I think there's one in the states that works. The one at Hendon is apparently cobbled together from bits and was originally fitted with anti tank guns.

Most Stukas were destroyed after the war, either by retreating axis forces or those who found them. The same is propbably true for rather a lot of interesting machinery.

The automatic thing for pulling you out of a dive might be handy for the inpept PPL trying to recover a spiral dive without knocking the weathecock off a church in Bedfordshire.

[topcat450]

G-STUK is a project, if you're bored when flicking about with G-INFO, look at what else the same guy owns. He's got a mini-airforce.

There is a 7/8th (I think) scale Ukranian-homebuilt Stuka flying, which looks darned good if you ask me. I did hear it was being offered for sale too recently.

[noisy]

The one at Hendon is a late war tankbuster which was probably never even delivered. It was dressed up with a dummy bomb for the film Battle of Britain.

There is a good story saying that when they took a wing off in order to move it they found a sign saying 'Achtung! Whitworth'
Bit like the Handley Page LE slats on the bf109.

[BEagle]

DB6 - I'm a bit doubtful about the wisdom of a siren-equipped Stuka appearing at an air display. To many people it's probably an undeniable symbol of Blitzkrieg....

You have to be careful what you do at an air display. Years ago, when they'd got the B-29 sorted out, the Confederate Air Force (as it was known before the PC idiots renamed it 'Commemorative' Air Force) decided to do an Enola Gay Hiroshima re-enactment using a large amount of magnesium powder, a few hundred gallons of petrol and some dynamite. Along came the B-29, the commentator started his spiel, the bomb doors opened, there was a blinding flash, b£oody big bang and a huge rolling mushroom cloud from the petrol. The audience made the usual whooping noises which Spams make.... Well all except for one. Amongst the audience was the Japanese ambassador......one very pi$$ed off Teddy!

[Sir George Cayley]

In an old copy of the EAA mag I recall a scaled replica flying either in Canada or the US.

Long time ago, lot of drink flowed over the gums....


Sir george Cayley

[AlanM]

Honestly, those affluent Epsom types eh Timothy...?

On a serious note, there is no C of A expiry so I assume it is not airworthy, but having been registered in December 2003 one hopes it may grace our skies again over the Home Counties!

[FNG]

Am I the only one that finds the idea of a Stuka "gracing the skies" above the Home Counties, or anywhere else, a rather odd one? I certainly don't object to Lancasters and B 29s flying around (although I doubt that anyone would suggest that a Lancaster should fly over Dresden). Unfair inconsistency? Winner's history? I'd say: no, there's a difference between machines that helped to save democracy, and machines which are symbols of an aggressive totalitarian regime. There's something particular about the image of a Stuka diving on a column of refugees or on the Warsaw ghetto and I for one won't mind if all the remaining J 87s stay in museums. Put it another way, we need to know, and teach children about, gas chambers, but we don't need working models of them.

Anyone for a flypast of Heinkel biplanes at Guernica?

[noisy]

This is not a simple issue, FNG, I suspect that the Ju87 has no special merits as a flying machine and in common with most military types is probably a juice monster and difficult to look after. Having aircraft flying is a great way to bring history alive and educate people-and that is a big part of not forgetting.

Axis a/c certainly do have a place on the airshow circuit, although I am not a particular fan for obvious reasons.

[airball]

FNG I hope that you are in a minority as to finding it odd. Its a machine and therefor seperate from its parent nations evil morality.There is no moral issue to be had here.Those who like airshows or just enjoy seeing planes fly could not fail to be facinated by the gawkish outline of a Stuka. As to those who might be affronted by its history and role in it, I suggest that a warning to the effect that 'this airshow contains content that might offend' should be posted :confused: How can it be right to fly as many allied aircraft as can be made airworthy because we won.What is your stance be on restoration of B- 29's (Enola gay)
This article is interesting on that point http://www.theenolagay.com/plane.html
I reckon a JU 87 has several merits other than guzzling gas and it must have taken some balls to dive that lumbering beast to 350mph and rely on an automated device to pull out at 1500 ft at 6g regardless of who was in the sights during the war or the misguided conviction of its pilot if indeed he had any.

[Timothy]

I must say that I am absolutely sickened when I have to go to "Chambers of Horrors" type places with children (most recently I had to go to the London Dungeons for one of my kids' birthdays).

I cannot help but look at the terrible machines of torture and see what suffering they caused.

Yes, you can separate the machines from the twisted minds behind them, but then to put the machines on public display in the name of entertainment is to be party to the perverted rewards that the machines once gave to their inventors and users.

Whenever a film or documentary maker wants to make a quick and potent reference to Nazi terror and oppression they use one of two images, the skeletal figure at the wire fence of a concentration camp or the Stuka tipping over into its dive.

Neither, IMHO, is to be laughed at while licking an ice-cream.

Incidentally, a Tornado may have the same resonances for generations of Iraqis.

Timothy

[airball]

Well Timmy these things happen in the world so get over it and we'll all make sure they don't happen again with some visual assistance!With regards Iraqi's what about the English , French, Spanish, Maltese, Estonians, Polish, Indonisians,Indians,Libyans,Italians, Americans.........................

[QDMQDMQDM]

I must say that I am absolutely sickened when I have to go to "Chambers of Horrors" type places with children (most recently I had to go to the London Dungeons for one of my kids' birthdays).

How about don't go then?

QDM

[Timothy]

I certainly wouldn't go again now.

I hadn't been to such a place since childhood until taking a birthday party group a couple of years ago and it was on that trip that I had these feelings of revulsion.

Timothy

[Thirty06]

Hmmm....

Maybe in about fifty years it would be possible to look at a JU87 as an historical curiosity. There still plenty of people about who had their countries overrun by the use of blitzkrieg who might find it less than tactful if you were to display the precision bombing that made the contemporary defences ineffective.

Britain could have been invaded very early on in the war. The medditeranean fleet was largely destroyed by dive bombimg as were many of the south coast defences.

The thing that turned the tide was Britain's lousy weather. It's hard to do precision bombing in crap vis.

Nowadays all armed forces use the same tactics to achieve quick and decisive victories. Air strikes are used against strategic targets until the main part of the opponents' defences are destroyed and the ground troops move in to take control. It may seem vicious (and indeed it is), but it may be more humane than mass bombing from high level or continuous atillery bombardment.