Suggestions for Magazine Articles [Archive]

dublinpilot

10th Feb 2004, 23:57

There has been a number of threads recently about what we don't like about the flying mags. I too am guilty of starting one such thread.

So I thought I'd start a new one, that rather than being critical, we could actually suggest to them what we would like to see.

So and lets tell them what we would like to see articles about.

PLEASE KEEP THIS THREAD FREE FROM PURELY NEGATIVE COMMENTS and lets tell them what we would like to see articles on. I'm sure they are more likely to listen, when we aren't being so negative! ;)

So my thoughts are:

1. The foreign trips articles can be interesting, but suffer too much from the took off, spoke to atc, landed had lunch thing. I would like to see such articles deal far more with the issues such as what you needed to fly there. Can you fly there on a JAA PPL? Do you need to get it converted? If so what are the contact details? What differences in ATC etc do you need to know about.

2. In a similar vain, how about an article that deals purely with the proceedures for any foreign flight. There are lots of questions on pprune asking what to do about special branch, what to do about customs for a cross water flight, so obviously this is something people get confused over.

3. When reviewing an airfield, move off the field. What is there to do nearby? Make it a city guide, rather than an airfield guide. When ever I look for somewhere to fly to, I always take out my Lonely Planet guide to see what's to do in the local town/city.

4. How about some reviews of aircraft that you can actually buy from a production line? Reviews of aircraft are always more interesting if you knew you could go out and buy one (if you had the money), rather than some rare plane, you would have difficulty finding. Maybe concentrated on the lower end of the price range ones? What could I but for less than €100,000 that is new, and I don't have to build?

Now your turn. Let them know what you want to read about in their mags. Maybe when they get an article that matches, they might be more inclined to publish it!

dp

ToryBoy

11th Feb 2004, 00:06

Nice thread topic dp, I will kick off with..............

1. I would love to see more "Owners and their Aircraft" type articles. One mag did one like this a few months ago about a guy and his Cherokee and I found it good honest reading. It's interesting to read about other peoples flying and their tips on maintenance, insurance etc. can be very useful. It wouldn't be expensive to do a series like this and rather than going for people like "Stavros and his modified Yak 18" I feel some down to earth ones like "Pete and his 182" etc. would be more useful!!!

Perhaps the owner who had the article written about him might be given a free watch for his efforts and time!!;)

Seriously though, I get tired of reading how "Janet and John went to Austria in their Rallye". We could all learn from solid articles about owners because many people who don't own, want to.

Just an idea.:ok:

2. I would agree entirely with dp on his "can we hear more about affordable planes". The exotic ones are great to read about and I appreciate that the magazine has to target a very wide audience. The space shuttle article a few years ago was the biscuit as far as I'm concerned and when an airliner is on the front of one of the three mag's I don't even take it off the shelf.
I think it was flyer that did an excellent series about 18 months ago where they discussed different aircraft that could be bought within different price brackets. That was "useful" journalism and I have re-read those articles several times especially when condsidering a change of a/c.

strafer

11th Feb 2004, 01:29

I'd like to see a well written article on short landings.

ETOPS773

11th Feb 2004, 02:31

Ideas..

The JAA / FAA jungle explained in a way anyone can easily digest it would be great for any commercial hopefuls...

Also,would be interesting to see what advantages and disadvantages there are in registering a plane to another country (ie G-ABCD to N123BB)

The case for PPL/IR..

Also,interesting landings section.Insurers probably won`t approve,but show us some of the tighest and most exciting landings in the UK,and how to do the approach properly.I can name North Farm in Washington (Near Worthing,West Sussex) as a great example.

Other than that..as Ali G says,keep it real.

formationfoto

11th Feb 2004, 04:33

DP

I know that some of the editorial staff of the mags read PPRUNE and I am sure this thread will prompt some ideas.

I guess the point is as much about balance as it is about content as many of the things asked for are already there.

The suggestion from Toryboy is one which I know is already being worked on and I think both of the mainstream mags are conscious of covering stuff which is relevant to the greater part of the audience. There is quite a bit more now about ordinary pilots and ordinary aircraft.

DP your item 3 is already being done. In the past six months I have written reviews of both Liverpool and Norwich airports and at least 25% of the article was about things to see and do in the nearby area / cities (althouhg most people don't tend to go much further than the nearest restaurant).

Some of the othetr points about putting hard advice in alongside the commentary is probably also being actioned so maybe the mags are starting to go in the right direction but need a bit more encouragement and ideas.

Keep them coming - the more ideas for me to write articles the better!. Seriously if there are some good ideas here I will approach the editor and try and get commissioned so I am certainly interested in listening. Feel free to PM me with ideas if you wish.

Big Pistons Forever

11th Feb 2004, 05:28

How about some hints from magazine staffers on what they want.
particularly a practicle list of do's and don'ts.

Mr Wolfie

11th Feb 2004, 06:34

Good thread DP. After my criticisms on "the Watch thread" here are my positive suggestions-

The three main UK GA mags are called Flyer, Pilot and Todays Pilot. However despite the nature of their titles they tend to concentrate more on the lumps of old metal found in hangars rather than the people that fly them. I would therefore like to see more "people based" stories ("human interest" stories sounds a bit twee). Some suggestions along these lines might be-

1. Try and alter prejudices and defy expectations - why not take a confirmed "nosewheel snob" (or indeed someone who has only tried nosewheel spamcams and is therefore a little in awe of taildraggers -like myself) and get them to to undertake a farmstrip flying course in a tail dragger?

2. The veterans who ditched their 172 on the way to their reunion dinner on the Scillies certainly have tale to tell. To be still be flying at thier venerable age is pretty impressive, but to succesfully ditch in the Atlantic in Winter and all be safely rescued is a great achievement. Did the plane sink, how did they vacate, did they aim to ditch near the fishing boat, etc etc.??

3. Diary type articles - for example visit someone building a PFA kit aircraft a couple of times a year for 2 / 3 / 4 years for short updates on progress and detail the real meaning of what 500 or 1000 or 2000 hours locked away in their garage really feels like. What will the project really cost once the paints on the wings and the inks on the permit to fly? Are they still married ?! Or why not follow an ab -initio PPL student over the course of training over a year. Just think of the value they could have got out of the Pink Aviator if they had known what we know now!

4. Car and motorbike magazines often get a number of ordinary joe's to test new models preferably with a wide span of experience. There was a recent article in one of the mags (I forget which) with this format regarding the new Diamond single. It is a format that could be expanded upon.

However..... what is really neded is better quality writing across the board. Rather than wait for someone to send in an article on say perhaps farmstrip flying and decide to go with it despite the quality or otherwise of the writing (& the photos) as often seems to happen at present, how much better it would be if they could actually pay and commission decent writers and journos to put the articles together.

100 years on from the first powered flight, and as a pretty new PPL I can attest to the fact that flying is a pretty extraordinary thing to do. From the staid writing in the mainstream mags you would be hard pushed sometimes to believe this. What I would really like to see in the aviation mags is more verve, passion, and perhaps controversy.

Mr. W

Final 3 Greens

11th Feb 2004, 14:32

1 - Feature articles on ATC - how the world looks from their point of view, how they feel about GA and what PPLs can do to make life easier for everyone

2 - As above, but AFIS and A/G

3 - Experiental stuff by experienced pilots, but not in the style of 'lectures on paper', e.g. more like Dick Collins in Flying where navigating around a squall line or someting similar is described by an actual flight being narrated and the critical decisions and decision points being explained - these could be written ad infinitum and are very valuable

Aerobatic Flyer

11th Feb 2004, 15:35

How about more informative flight tests, that give you an idea what the aeroplane might actually be like to own? Are there any significant ADs on it, are spare parts readily available, can it be certified in the UK (lots of "tests" of Eastern European microlights say that they can be flown at heavier weights in the "experimental" category. Not in the UK they can't...), and so on.

Any article submitted as a "flight test" where the author has flown for less than an hour with either a company demonstration pilot or the owner who's trying to flog his aeroplane should be binned by the editor!!

IO540

11th Feb 2004, 15:53

The challenge lies in the fact that the UK flying crowd is going to be very different from the pprune crowd. Only a tiny % of pilots are online. Most PPLs I know have never used the internet for weather info, for example - what a waste!

So any wish list we come up with isn't going to be of much help to the magazine.

Having said that, I would have more post-PPL material, aimed at people who want to go places. Radio navigation (GPS/VOR/DME) and how it may be done in different places (e.g. France has no DMEs, only TDMEs). Easy and quick flight planning using the internet for weather and notams (some article I read recently suggested that a foreign trip should be planned at least 1-2 months ahead!!!!). Instrument flight (surely there must be SOME people whose IMC Rating has not expired??). The routes to PPL/IR (FAA, N-reg). The CAA won't like the last bit written about but until we get a usable European IR they have to accept it.

I would like to see an acknowledgement that the PPL training is too basic to enable most fresh pilots to confidently go to places, and offer information on how to progress to the next stage. This means a complete inclusion of GPS for example, much as many won't like that.

Circuit Basher

11th Feb 2004, 16:10

DP - I'm generally moderately happy with the one mag I subscribe to regularly (which begins with a 'P' :D), but would support 'all of the above' as suggestions - doing flight reviews of Gulfstreams / Citations / Shuttles always strikes me as a bit inappropriate for the GA audience (more a Flight International sort of topic, I'd have thought!)!!

The two biggest gripes I have about 'P*l*t' are the fact that the 'Old Timers' section could either be binned or cut to maybe one page (with Anoraks Weekly using most of rest of the material). plus the fact that by the time I receive my copy through the mail, half of the fly in events in the diary have already happened and the rest are too adjacent to plan for. I'd seriously like the UK fly in diary to cover at least 10 wks from the date of receipt of the magazine, not 3 - 6 wks.

Just my little bit. :)

Philip Whiteman

11th Feb 2004, 16:39

Mr Wolfie:

Pat Malone sought out Bernard Maslin, Fleet Air Arm veteran and pilot of the 172 that went into the sea off the Scilly Isles. We published Bernard's account of the traumatic ditching in the December 2003 issue of General Aviation

Please PM me for a copy - I am sure I can rustle one up from somewhere. Same applies to anybody else who is interested...

dublinpilot

11th Feb 2004, 16:40

I really like 3 green's suggestion of an article from an ATC'ers point of view. As a PPL, I'm sure I'm not alone in never haveing seen the inside of an ATC tower, or a controlers ATC sceen actually working (as apposed to a photo).

So I'd definately second the idea of an article from their point of view. Maybe that one could run as a short series, so as not to be too superficial?

dp:ok:

mad_jock

11th Feb 2004, 16:53

Great thread.

Apart from the stuff in the other thread

1. Greasy spoon awards.

2. Instead of just a pilot telling you about an airfield how about approaching the SATCO of said field and asking what some of the normal vistor cockups that occur.

3. Engineering niggles: not ripping the pee outa one organisation but if someone has a long on going problem which seems to be going in circles (usually electrical i must admit) what the problem was and the solution.

4. ATC section is a must if you can get a ATC type to write about GA errors and misconceptions.

5. Section on whats changed in the AIP and ANO and don't just do the GA stuff. There are some of us who fly bigger machines who still enjoy GA. For not much extra space you will have a happier pro readership as well.

MJ

strafer

11th Feb 2004, 17:16

To Monocock and the other humourless anoraks - my posts on this thread and the now closed watch one, were err, jokey. There unfortunately isn't a smilie character for a snare drum and cymbal crash so you'll just have to trust me.

Now back to the thread - Flyer is out this week and Pilot next. Why don't posters here critique the articles in both saying what they liked/disliked?

For example, the ILAFFT and new aviation websites which are regular features in Pilot have, while being good ideas for features, been pretty dull of late. I'm prepared to be pleasantly surprised though.

Now, anyone here from Poughkeepsie?

Flyed

11th Feb 2004, 18:13

Hi All

Just a quick note (lot of work to do preparing the next issue, the biggest of the year) to let you know that I appreciate your thoughts and, perhaps oddly, to say that I agree with many of the comments made.

Like you I am a flyer (bad pun, sorry :\ ) and I love reading good features and books about flying (just finished No Escape Zone by Nick Richardson, Sea Harriers in Bosnia and well worth reading, and I've just started on First Light).

There are many issues involved in producing a magazine, particularly in a small, specialist market such as ours, which range from getting hold of, and producing, the quality of material you (and I) would like read through to ensuring that it is all done within a realistic budget.

The feedback here, though, is very valuable and noted. I suspect you'll see some of the articles you'd like to read in print (not necessarily just in our magazine) before too long.

If anyone feels they would like to write any of them (or suggest an author – I've been trying to do the ATC one for some time but ATCOs I have spoken to are concerned about their employment contracts, even writing anonymously) and would like to discuss the idea, please feel free to call me on 01225 481440 or email me [email protected] (or indeed get in touch if you have any other comments you'd like to make).

Nick
Flyer Ed

Aim Far

11th Feb 2004, 18:14

My tuppenyworth:

1. I like the foreign trips articles but I could live without the articles themselves. Just give me the pictures to inspire me to go to the places concerned. If the author hasn't got pictures, either get stock ones or publish something else. The pictures don't really need to be "in flight" - they just need to inspire you to go to the place. Photos of runways should be banned.

2. It would be useful if the authors could also think back to when they were planning the trip, the things they didn't know, the questions they had and write from the point of view of someone who hasn't yet been. And don't just write the legal details, write about what happens in practice - for example, all that stuff on customs and immigration in Pooleys is, in practice, condensed into one form which the airfield will help you with, so why not say so?

3. An article on things coming up this year would be nice, rather than reviews of things which have already happened. I appreciate there is the list of events but those are just lists and unless you have personal experience of the events, it can be hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. (Yes, I know one man's wheat is another man's chaff but give it a go - it doesn't have to be perfect).

4. I would like to see an article entitled "everything you need to do and know about now you own a plane". From personal experience, the move from renting to ownership is a big learning curve.

5. I like the series in Flyer which sets up the situation and asks what did they do wrong?

6. I don't need flight tests - I have a plane and don't need to know how fast other people's planes climb.

AF

BlueRobin

11th Feb 2004, 18:48

Two thoughts:

Mark Hales did a few articles a while back in FLYER pitting one aeroplane against another, e.g. 4-seat tourer for under £30k. (DR250 vs AA5 I think in this case). Similar thing is done in car mags. Perhaps something again along the same lines for the odd feature article?

Also, reader's reviews, ey Nick? Hint ;)

LowNSlow

11th Feb 2004, 19:18

How about contacting a few owners to do a quarterly article on the trials and tribulations they've had operating their aircraft. It could be split into a few categories:

Multis - Apahe, Aztec, Seneca, Seminole, C-337 etc
Complex Singles - Arrow, Bonanza, Commanche, C-177 etc
Tourers - Archer/Warrior, C172/182, TB-9/10, AA5A/B, DR400 etc
Trainers - C150/2, Tomahawk, Robin(??) etc
Vintage - Cub, Taylorcraft, Auster, Tiger Moth etc
Fun (New) - Squalus, Foxbat (Aeroprakt NOT MiG!) etc
Fun (Old) - Pietenpol, FRED, VP-1/2, etc
Microlights - weightshift, 3-axis (don't know many microlight models sorry)

It might give potential owners a feel for what goes wrong with various types of aircraft and which group their style of flying fits with aircraft group. It might also help current owners to spot potential problems or sort out existing problems. This also creates a potential pool of contributors to the magazine whose style and ability is known.

IO540

11th Feb 2004, 22:12

Circuit Basher

If one was to label a section "Anoraks Weekly" then such a section would take up at least a half of any UK GA magazine and nearly all of some of them :O

Capt. Manuvar

11th Feb 2004, 22:47

I think that Business aviation (which is very much GA) doesn't get enough attention. In the US, 75% of GA is business aviation. UK GA mags give too much attention to cheap and vintage fun flying. How about more articles on business aircraft (light jets, single ening t/props, High perf singles)? There are some people who are not really interested in the 'spirit of flying' but more interested in getting from point A to B and have a lot of money to spend and dont want the hassle of airlines. FLYING magazine (US) seems to be able to accomodate both the 'flyer' and the 'aviator' under on roof.
Also Uk GA mags don't really appeal to th younger genration of pilots. They aren't doing mnuch to bring in new blood into the GA community. while old timers might be facinated by the latest taildragger/microlight/1930s pieces of cr@p, people my age are more interested in high performance machines and gadgets.
Each edition of FLYING magazine has more info on new technogoly than the 3 major Uk mags put together. I'd like to see more on the benefits of new technology (GPS, glass cockpits even mode s).
Contrary to what CB said I don't mind seeing the flight tests of unusual aircraft we GA pilots will never get to fly (I liked John farley's article in the Lavi a while back). I would like to see occasional articles on airline and Helicopter operations. We share the same sky but dont know much about them.

How about a more 'interesting' page 3:} :} :}
Capt. M

FlyingForFun

11th Feb 2004, 22:59

dp suggested:What could I buy for less than €100,000 that is new, and I don't have to build?ToryBoy agreed:I would agree entirely with dp on his "can we hear more about affordable planes".Capt M, however, obviously doesn't:There are some people who are not really interested in the 'spirit of flying' but more interested in getting from point A to B and have a lot of money to spend and dont want the hassle of airlinesThe only thing this proves is that you can't possibly keep everyone happy.

So my question is, why do we have three magazine, all of which try to cater for everyone (more or less)? Why not have one magazine that concentrates on classic aircraft, one that's aimed more at owners of modern, affordable aircraft, and a third to cater for the business jet pilots and enthusiasts?

FFF
-----------

Aerobatic Flyer

11th Feb 2004, 23:14

Why not have one magazine that concentrates on classic aircraft, one that's aimed more at owners of modern, affordable aircraft, and a third to cater for the business jet pilots and enthusiasts?

They could be called Was a Pilot, Am a Pilot and Wannabe a Pilot.;)

dublinpilot

12th Feb 2004, 00:40

FFF,

I think Toryboy, CaptM & myself might be closer than you think. The common point being we don't want to hear reviews about vintage aircraft, that we can't walk out any buy, because none are for sale. We want to see new modern aircraft, although we might disagree about the price range.

I do think there is room for the mags to please us all, just not with the same article, at the same time. Most of the mags have more than one flight test in the same issue, so we could all get something form each issue to keep us happy.

Flyed, & Formatiofoto,

It was preciesly to give people like you guys some positive feedback that I started this thread. So that you might better pick which articles to publish/write, so thanks for showing your interest, and thoughts.

IO540,

I'm not so sure that the readership of pprune is that different to the mags. I'm presuming your assuming that most people here fly more than those that read the mag. However a lot of people here don't fly that much. I for one only fly about 40/50 hours per year, and consider myself very inexperienced. While there is a higher % of experienced pilots here, I'm sure that the feedback is still good enough to give them useful feedback.

Your post does though give me another idea for an article. How about an article of useful internet resourses for flying? We all know of useful site for weather, notams, customs forms, airfield info etc. As you pointed out lots of pilots don't make much use of the internet. Maybe they would like to be informed about what's actually available to them, and what they are missing out on. Just a thought.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts everyone, and sticking to the request to keep this thread positive rather than negative. Now it's up to the editors to take our thoughts onboard and hopefully we'll all get more articles along the line of what we want to read.

dp

ps. Nick. I'm surprised about the reluctance of ATC's to write. I'm not sure what sort of article you suggested to them, but I would't expect them to write about anything that would get them into trouble. Just explain how we interact with them, what they can do for us, and how we can make better use of their service. I'm thinking something along the lines of John Farrelly's articles, from an ATC point of view. Maybe a recently retired ATC might be more willing?

Whirlybird

12th Feb 2004, 02:17

If I was the editor of a flying mag, I think I'd now be tearing my hair! How to please everyone? Some people want more flight tests, some less. Some don't like ILAFFT and That Worst Day, some of us read those first (I do, for one, anyway). Some like old aircraft, some new ones, some can't afford those, etc etc etc etc.

I think ultimately it comes down to the standard of the writing. If something is well written, even a subject I don't think I'm that interested in can be fascinating. OHOH, if I read a flying touring story, about a place I'd like to go, that spends the first two paragraphs on why they decided to go, plus the fact they checked the weather, and sorted out their pride and joy and loaded her with fuel, di-dum, di-dum...I feel like I'm reading an adult version of a kid's "What I did in my holidays|" school essay. Don't editors edit any more? For instance, there was a recent article in the PFA magazine, about a guy who flew to Italy, had engine failure in the mountains, and managed to land safely on the only cleared bit of ground for miles and miles around, on a steep slope. I will never ever forget reading about that; it was riveting. But why oh why didn't someone edit out some of the rest of his over-long diary account of the trip?

Flight tests...er, right... They all seem to be variations on a theme. It looked nice, it was a bit of a tight squeeze for the 6ft 2ins pilot, but didn't it have wonderful handling, and didn't he enjoy it. Well, I'm sure he had fun, but that didn't really tell me a lot. I dream of the day when someone test flies something and doesn't really like it! Just for a change, you know.

So what do I want? More innovative and really good writing. Stuff from people who can fly AND write. They must exist. I know they do. Every time I've submitted an article (apart from one that got returned since the photos were't good enough) I get told it will be accepted, but not published for ages as the editor has loads of stuff and there's a backlog. So there can't be a dearth of material. Maybe, editors, you should be getting more fussy. Just an idea.

Er... I suppose that means I can't complain if you turn down anything of mine now. Ah, well, I don't write much anyway. Except on PPRuNe :)

ChrisVJ

12th Feb 2004, 06:41

COMPARE flying say, on W Coast USA or Canada and in UK

Follow a homebuilt being built, Forget the nuts and bolts, write the human story.

COMPARE onership. Between planes, between places, between types of people, ie, fanatics/casual owners?

SHORT cameos of characters in aviation,, not just the famous ones but also the guy who makes that sarnies at Rochester, or the owner of a (small) helicopter company.

Tell what there is to do when we go there, when we tire of the $100 hamburger. Museum close by, activities? Town? Transport?

Collect a "Tip File" for owning or for building planes. Not the "how to" of nuts and bolts but the human stuff we learn too late to be any good. (I could fill a (small) book.)

Start a "Tip File" for popular makes, publish in batches.

Above all.
Better writing =Good
Poor writing = Bad.

IO540

12th Feb 2004, 06:42

dublinpilot

If you do 50hrs/year that is way above UK PPL average. Various figures have appeared in the press over recent years. One of them quoted the CAA as saying that 75% of PPLs expire with less than 10hrs flown. Others are in the region of 90-95% of PPLs expiring before the first renewal, or some 95% never make 100hrs before expiring. So if a magazine wants to appeal to the bulk of the UK PPL scene, it needs to go after very low time pilots indeed.

But does it really? Do PPL students buy the magazines? If they do, that part of the circulation must be falling, some 30-50% in the last 5 years. Unless we know the reader profile (experience basically) we can't say. But the mags know it.

Flight planning is getting pretty streamlined but there is still some way to go. You can now go to e.g. www.avbrief.com and get most of the weather for today and a bit of tomorrow, and that will do most PPLs. For an idea beyond that, or for supplementing the aforementioned especially for IMC flight, http://www.arl.noaa.gov/ready/cmet.html is one of several good sites which require some interpretation to get the best out of them. Avbrief also have a very good human weather person you can phone up. Then you go to http://www.ais.org.uk/index.html for the Notams and (if you don't have Pooleys or the Aerad touring guide) for aerodrome charts. AIS is a pig-slow website but nothing like the truly awful Eurocontrol website (with about 20MB of Java download) which is a collection of AIPs around Europe; potentially very handy. But not a lot of schools offer internet access to students, and a lot of schools discourage post-PPL flyers. How many airfields have free net access in their public flight planning room? Rather than handing out the silly get-weather booklets full of premium rate numbers, people should be encouraged to make a habit of using the net for their flight planning - it's a lot quicker.

The internet has a long way to go... the charts should be online, perhaps downloadable for an annual fee. That would be a vast improvement. Almost everybody has access to an inkjet printer.

Then there is software. The Jepp stuff and Navbox are probably most popular in the UK, but this stuff is frowned on in flying schools where the ex-WW1 slide rule is the order of the day. The chart needs to be used anyway for terrain/airspace reference but flight planning with Navbox is incredibly quick. Again this needs to be integrated into flight planning.

I think Capt. Manuvar is right on about modernisation. The traditionalists can be easily served by one "vintage types" magazine. But unless new younger pilots are attracted, the whole scene will sink and all that will be left will be people operating off farm strips. And helicopters, of course.

So the mags could do a lot to move things forward. But I think they are hugely hampered by the appallingly backward attitudes throughout the GA business. We still have a PPL syllabus which dates back to WW1, with some concessions to technical developments in WW2, and very few 1960s amendments (VORs). The CAA appear to do nothing, and the training establishment is mostly more than happy with anything just as long as the occassional bunch of people from the local housing estate walk in for a pleasure flight for somebody's birthday. I've spoken to the CAA and apparently the ICAO is looking at updating things, but it's likely to take years and there will be a lot of resistance. Not least because most schools have no money to get new kit never mind new planes.

Inconclusive...

formationfoto

12th Feb 2004, 15:30

Good thread so far. Very little slagging off. Mag editors / publishers seem to be listening. And I know many of the ideas mentioned are ideas already being looked at.

Keep it coming.

mad_jock

12th Feb 2004, 15:52

Nick

I don't know the chap..

But pprunes Heathrow director is retired. Everything i have read on pprune by him has shone with knowledge and experence.

Its just an Idea.

Flying lawer might be another good catch but i suspect he has more than enough work to do.

MJ

strafer

12th Feb 2004, 18:22

Why has no-one mentioned that fact that Angelina Jolie is apparently doing a PPL (H) at Denham. Where is the article and most importantly, the pictures?

As already stated, you can't please all of the people all of the time. But, the important thing is not the subject matter so much as the quality of the writing. The reason a lot of people have singled out John Farley is because he can. (Personally I've got no real interest in military jets, mainly because no-one will let me fly them! But John's consistently interesting, even if that's his subject).

I have to say the best article I've read in a long while was by Dave Byers(?) - a Concorde pilot describing his last flight on her. Although the subject matter would interest most of us here, the eloquence with which he described his experience was truely excellent.

I also think that while the writing in Flyer has improved over the last couple of years, the writing in Pilot has gone downhill slightly. (I have to be careful what I say, as Sam the man has berated me for making Nick Bloom cry with some hurtful comments I made in another thread. Don't worry Sam, my parents have grounded me and I'm not allowed to hang around with the big boys from the estate any more).

Where was I? Oh yes, quality of writing first, subject matter second.

BTW, what do people think of the issue of 'Flyer' out today? (I'll ask the same question next week about 'Pilot').

dublinpilot

12th Feb 2004, 18:53

No no, no.

If you want to be critical on the current issues of the mags, then start another thread on that. Please don't hi-jack this one. As I said in my initial post, I wanted this one to be kept as one of positive suggestions for future articles.

Please don't hi-jack it, as I think it's working well, and that we are all likely to see the benefits in future issues.

dp

Shaggy Sheep Driver

12th Feb 2004, 18:54

Why has no-one mentioned that fact that Angelina Jolie is apparently doing a PPL (H) at Denham.

Who is Angelina Jolie?

SSD

Philip Whiteman

12th Feb 2004, 20:47

Come on Shaggy! La Jolie is a buxom actress who played Lara Croft in the recent Hollywood films based on the Tomb Raider game. (Don't ask what a PlayStation is!)

Old farts like me will make an aviation connection: Jolie is John Voight's daughter, and Voight played Milo Mindbenderer in Catch 22. Now there's a real film...

Strafer: I am sure you did make Nick Bloom cry. However, all of us magazine editors have to learn that it is for our our readership to judge how well we are doing the job!

James Gilbert - best editorial teacher of the lot - always used to say: "the editor's decision may not always be right - but it is final!" The rest of his wisdom I will artfully keep to myself.

strafer

12th Feb 2004, 20:57

Fair enough dp - your tread, your rules.

Shaggy Sheep Driver

12th Feb 2004, 21:07

Philip - thanks for that; I'd really no idea who she was. Think I know what a play station is, though:)

If we ever get together for a scoop or two, I'll be bending you ear for some more of that Gilbert editorial wisdom:ok:

SSD

140cherokee

12th Feb 2004, 21:20

I'd like to see articles on instrument flight as revision for IMC holders and students (e.g. ADF tracking, NDB/DME approaches, holds, etc). All three magazines tend to stick to VFR flying and techniques.

I'd also like to see honest appraisals of aircraft for flight tests. If an aircraft is cr@p, please say so! (TP mag is particularly bad at this and seems to give wonderful reviews of everything). Some Clarkson'esque wit and sarcasm from the authors would be great too!

140

Dave Unwin

12th Feb 2004, 23:13

Dear all, this thread was recently brought to our attention and everyone at Today’s Pilot would like to thank you all for the many and varied suggestions. There’s been some excellent ideas floated already. As Nick Wall has already pointed out, all the UK’s GA mags are delighted to receive contributions from their readers, so please feel free to email any articles or suggestions to me at [email protected] if you want to see them in Today’s Pilot.
I note that some of you have indicated a preference about articles that look at owning and operating specific aircraft types. May I introduce any PPRuNers who have not already seen it to our regular feature “Owning & Operating a ……” - it does exactly what it says on the tin! The current issue looks at the Jet Provost while next month’s deals with the Ikarus C-42.

As for the post claiming that we always say nice things about everything, I’d beg to differ. For example, see my report on the Liberty XL-2 in the current issue, in which I am less than enamoured with its finger brakes. Indeed, I think you’ll find that I invariably find something unsatisfactory about almost all the aircraft that I test. After all, nothing’s perfect! However, to be fair, most of the aircraft I fly have achieved at least some level of certification before I get my hands on them, and in order to be certificated they must reach a certain standard.

Cheers, Dave
Dave Unwin, Editor, Today’s Pilot

Aerobatic Flyer

13th Feb 2004, 00:34

On the subject of flight tests, again, it's probably hard to organise but it would be nice to see reports of the aircraft being tested in the environment it's designed for, written by someone who knows their subject.

For example, a report on an aerobatic aeroplane should be written by someone who is able to fly aerobatics properly and give a reasoned opinion. Nick Bloom does this very well (even if I stand by my criticism in the other thread of the short-field landings article he edited!), as do a few others - but often the writer just flies (or is flown) through a couple of loops and a spin, and says that they couldn't do any more because of time constraints, low fuel, lack of parachutes, etc. That's just poor planning.

Another example would be a test of a fast tourer. Fill it with people, go somewhere in it, and use an instrument-rated reviewer who is used to touring - but unless he (or she? Has anyone seen a flight test written by a woman?) is truly multi-talented, don't get him then to review the VFR-only farm-strip special with tundra tyres and a 70kt cruise 'cos he probably won't make much of a job of it.

A small personal gripe is that the best reviewers are freelance and their writing turns up in both British and French magazines. Bob Grimstead's reviews all get translated and published in Aviasport, and Jacques Callies sometimes gets translated into English and published in Flyer.... my fault for buying too many magazines, I suppose.

What else do I like? Accuracy, and good writing. I'd like more personal articles about anything that takes the author's fancy. The kind of article that Bernard Chabbert still writes for the French magazines (and used to for Pilot), or the ones found in the back pages of Flying. There must be people out there who have something to say and who can write. The magazines should be proactive about going and finding them, and be less reliant on contributions from enthusiastic readers (money permitting, of course).

G-Foxtrot Oscar 69

13th Feb 2004, 02:54

I reckon the key here as has been mentioned several times in balance.

I reckon it's great to read about Bob and his PA28 but it is like a car mag. We all know what we want to own. So you can read about the new Ford but an article about the Ferrari 360 grabs you as well.

In GA terms it is nice to read about the really cool kit such as Citations etc but in balance.

I would love to see an article where they get some average PPL's and try them out in airliner sims. Would be nice to know how they fare and what they take away from it.

As mentioned before. Please move off the airfield on articles about airfields.

Perhaps a bit more on training and refreshing as well.

ChrisVJ

13th Feb 2004, 13:52

IF, as the figures suggest, so many PPLs drop out before they make 100 hours ( It took me 39 years to make my first 100 almost to the day) then surely a most beneficial thing a magazine could do is work on a strategy to get those people to stay in the game. Good for GA and good for the circulation too.

Why do they drop out?
Cost?
Lack of Purpose?
lack of adventure?
Lack of social inclusion?

Many other industries are going through the same thing, for instance the ski industry in N America, figures stagnant for ten years, declining the last couple. They have recognised they need to come up with a strategy as a whole as well as fighting over the punters between themselves. GA must do the same or in the long run they are doomed. The associations are loose and have little power so it is up to other areas of the business to get it rolling and the magazines are by far the best placed to encourage, co-erce and generally influence.

Cost? What about flight sharing, offering spare seats, discounts for groups organised through magazines, discount group training

Lack of purpose? Well some of you are showing the way with group outings. Expand on them, take them abroad, stratify them so beginners have places to go and can expand their horizons with their experience. How about flotilla flying like flotilla sailing holidays? Lack of adventure, likewise.

Lack of social inclusion. Why not have a campaign. Let no one walk out of a flying centre/ club anywhere without a personal invitation to return for an event, barbecue, informal drink, group including seminar or refresher.

Three years ago some people over the hills started a flight school at my local airfield. The instructor was awfully good and within a month had eight students. Apparently breakeven was five. Unfortunately he did not work on the social thing. Each of us would go up there, do our bit of training and flying, shake hands and leave. At the end of the season I was the only one with a Permit and that because Dept of Transport said I only needed a refresher. By the next season the impetus was lost, the school did not come back and there are seven ( out of eight) people around here who are part of the "90% don't do more than....." statistic. None of us ever met each other.

Contrast that with the gliding club at the airfiled. They have a hut, 12 ft by 12 ft. There is always coffee going, even for non gliders. Rudi always takes a few seconds to say hello even when he is busy, and he is busy, the place is known internationally. There are always a few pilots hanging round chewing over the weather, competitions, different kinds of aircraft. The set up is good so needs little of that usual manhnadling but everyone offers to do it anyway.

Get the message? Getting people to help and to socialise may not be necessary to the business of gliding but it includes people, myself included and I don't even fly gliders.

Do a deal with the flight schools. Every training pilot get a mail copy of the magazine, Pennies to the flight school but just maybe you'll engage a PPL for life. What a return.

There was, in the sixties a whole flying/social/ status/ adventure/excitement thing, if you want to get people to stay in flying I think you should recreate that excitement and engagement and I know just the people to do it: The Aviation magazines. Now get on with it.

mad_jock

13th Feb 2004, 17:52

As for teaching Ms Tomb Raider what a crap article that would make. I am sure she is just a normal student who has large breasts (nought wrong with that i might add) but I am sure like most flying instructor once you have your instructors head on it dosn't matter what the student is or looks like.

A C172 with 3 girlies taking pics of there breasts while you throw neg G bunts is fun at the time but I don't think the rest of the country needs to know about it.

Be better getting one of the disabled flying clubs new students to do a diary. And also a feature on the Douglas Bader awards would be nice to. Along with some of the mods available for various aircraft types out there.

Timothy

14th Feb 2004, 06:14

I am late to this thread as I have been away, so apologies about cherry picking a few points throughout.

The article I did for the Feb Flyer (as WCollins) involved me talking to a few ATCOs and Nick is quite right that they really don't want to be identified. I think that it is fair to say that the contents of that article reasonably well represents what an "average" TC or App ATCO might want to say.

On the question of articles appearing in other languages, an El Al Capt friend of mine saw an article I wrote for Flyer a couple of years ago (about planning for EFATOs in light twins) in the Israeli GA mag. I had to take his word for it, as Hebrew is a little inpenetrable to the untutored eye! I certainly had nothing to do with its release for publication in Israel, nor did Flyer, and neither of us received a penny!

I do agree about GA encompassing much more than SEPs. For example, I used to fly the night mails in Cessna 404s. It was too long ago for me to write about now, but an article from someone doing something like that now might well be interesting. The same goes for air ambulance and VIP flying, both of which can be fascinating. Hmmm...Nick, maybe I do feel an article coming on! :p

Timothy

PacmanUK

14th Feb 2004, 20:21

I think that the mags are generally doing a good job and to move slightly off the point, what about a TV market. Since Discovery Wings was set up, it seems to me that they are struggling for programmes and show the same three programmes three times over, in one night. Why don't the flying mags move into this market and do video mags. Same or similar articles could be included, making for some new and interesting TV and I'm sure that the Discovery Wings would be eager to snap it up after the sucess of the mags themselves. There is very little TV for the average PPL with such things as airfields to visit and programmes on individual planes or pilots.

I recently watched 'A Spitfire's Story', which I found very interesting, if this could be filtered down to your average PPL aircraft, pilots and airfields it would not only be interesting, but would also allow people to see what the airfields/planes etc are like and encourage or discourage them to visit/buy/hire them.

formationfoto

15th Feb 2004, 03:55

Pacman
A brief comment so as not to hijack this useful thread.

The reason for channels such as Discovery Wings repeating programmes so regularly is two fold. Firstly the cost of generating new programming is high and therefore there is a shortage of good programming relevant to a small niche audience such as the UK PPL and aspiring PPL.

Secondly such channels have relatively low viewing and are often not the 'channel of choice' so the audience builds up over time. For any programme to be seen by a large part of the viewing audience (who each tune on for a relatively short space of time) the programme has to be repeated.

Whilst TV production costs have been lowered considerably in the past ten years the costs are still much higher than those involved in creating a magazine article. I have been involved in both television and magazines and have looked at this a number of times. What (in my humble opinion) is more likely, as broadband extends its reach, is on demand video content which might be produced by specialist magazines. This could be delivered by DVD (perhaps cover mounted) in the short term but ultimately would work better as broadband web content. It is easy to see how a flight test might work in video form and also many of the other typucal magazine feature elements.

Just as we are all becoming digital photographers we will slowly gain the technology and some of the skills of video production (see videos elsewhere on PPRUNE) which will make submitted content cost effective for magazines (although I can see looming quality control issues).

I have heard people involved in the aviation mags talking about this area over the past year or so and I suspect someone will offer some content like this within twelve months or so just to test it. Full time offerings could yet be some way off.

Many of the ideas offered in this thread might have an application in video.

PacmanUK

15th Feb 2004, 04:27

Thank you for the enlightenment, very interesting. Let's hope that they do get some tests out, which are well supported.

strafer

16th Feb 2004, 20:37

Mad_jock,

I'll add you to my mental list of posters who need a big sign and a lot of smilies in order to realise a comment may not be entirely serious.

Oops, almost forgot:ok:

mad_jock

16th Feb 2004, 20:51

:D fair enough I was in serious thread mode and with any luck if the editors take us all seriously we might actually get a mag that takes more than 10 mins to flick through and lord forbid actually maybe reread.

MJ :t

KCDW

16th Feb 2004, 22:07

A couple of years ago, the US Mag "Flying", did a fascinating article called "Moving Up", where it got it's main contributors to talk about the rationale behind their buying their latest pride and joy (it would seem that most of them have one!).

As others have said, the human interest angle in flying is a good one.

dublinpilot

17th Feb 2004, 00:29

I guess most of us that fly the little ones, wonder what it would be like to fly a heavy....maybe an article or two on life as a captain on some heavy iron might be of interest.

DRJAD

17th Feb 2004, 15:17

Some suggestions for magazine articles, though I'm sure they will all have been made before:

i. Techniques

VOR/NDB tracking
VOR vs NDB holds
Non ILS approaches, etc..

ii. Experiential

First year experiences, post PPL (or post NPPL)
Flight planning & preparation by an experienced (>300hr) PPL (with IMC or IR?) including Meteorology evaluation, ATC liaison planning, etc..

iii. Speculative/Opinion

Are PPL ground examinations too easy?
(Should there be more academic rigour, to discern whether
potential pilots have the ability to evaluate and decide
upon appropriate courses of action given input of mixed
value, for example. Are potential pilots able adequately
to communicate with others, not only ATC, in their first
language, etc.. Are the requirements for knowledge of
basic physics and basic human biology sufficiently
stringent?)

big.al

17th Feb 2004, 17:04

I also find the 'trips abroad' articles interesting (eg. the guys who flew an AA5 to Portugal, and the guys who flew a PA28 from Florida to the Bahamas). But I also agree that instead of just.... "we landed here"... "struggled to pitch our tent there..." it would be much more interesting if there were more details about what was involved in planning the trip, differences with local procedures/airspace or R/T etc.

As an inexperienced PPL with only one real 'away' trip (to Guernsey) to date, this kind of article would be helpful to understand how difficult such a trip really is (or isn't, as the case may be).

IO540

17th Feb 2004, 18:13

DRJAD

It could really be that most of the magazine readers (i.e. the present customer base) are real anoraks who really do want to read about somebody restoring some WW1 plane - we don't know this but presumably the publishers have a pretty good idea.

But working on the assumption the above is not the case, my view is that the mags should avoid printing the same old stuff.

They should stop reprinting sections of Trevor Thom. Every PPL has been exposed to enough of that, and I think most people do buy the books and keep them. They should cut the articles on owner maintenance - excluding vintage type owners, only a tiny % of pilots do their own maintenance and those that do need specific advice, not the generic rambling that gets printed.

They should try to take GA forward. Most normal people want to go forward and do interesting things.

This means moving away from the WW1/WW2 PPL syllabus. It means actively using GPS navigation, flying abroad (basically anywhere South of here has better weather :O ), promoting the IMC Rating as a good way to defeat much of UK weather...

It also means printing articles about really modern aircraft and the way one flies them. While 99% of present day PPLs can't afford a £200k plane, they aren't going to buy a £30k PA28 either, and it is a lot more interesting to read about new stuff than seeing pictures of the same old C152/PA28 interiors with 1970s radios which are about to drop out of the panel...

There is a huge amount of negativity among the largely traditionalist GA establishment when it comes to anything new or modern, and this needs to be countered.

Nobody else has the profile to do it. AOPA doesn't have the profile and is far too expensive for the average present-day (skint) PPL to join anyway. Very few pilots are online in any way. The mags are still the main source of info.

DRJAD

17th Feb 2004, 18:58

IO540,

I think we generally agree. To turn to your message specifically:

I would just not necessarily endorse use of GPS as a primary system at present, owing to its control by authorities outside Europe, and its propensity for degradation if political will deems that advisable for reasons not necessarily apparent to us.

It is the experiential aspects, and the speculative aspects, of magazine contents which would most interest me, though I believe there to be value in a discussion of how techniques described in the various manuals are applied in, for want of a better phrase, the 'real world'.

Flyed

17th Feb 2004, 21:05

Formationfoto wrote >
What (in my humble opinion) is more likely, as broadband extends its reach, is on demand video content which might be produced by specialist magazines. This could be delivered by DVD (perhaps cover mounted) in the short term but ultimately would work better as broadband web content. It is easy to see how a flight test might work in video form and also many of the other typucal magazine feature elements.
snip>
I have heard people involved in the aviation mags talking about this area over the past year or so and I suspect someone will offer some content like this within twelve months or so just to test it. Full time offerings could yet be some way off.<

There is much in this; not wishing to fall foul of BRL's advertising rules, but I would just like to mention that next month's John Farley column will print a web URL to a video we will host to illustrate his piece on Harriers and ski jumps.
With the growing availability of video and broadband this is an area where the magazines will be able offer the reader more.
Thanks to those who have contacted me directly on this thread – Still taking note of your suggestions, too.
Nick
Flyer Ed
------------------------------------------------------------------------

DRJAD

17th Feb 2004, 21:58

Hmmm, wouldn't like the idea of being disenfranchised by broadband.

BT say there is 'no outlook' for broadband in my area, and we take this to mean 'no likelihood' of broadband availability.

Aerobatic Flyer

17th Feb 2004, 22:33

However, it's already happening. Nothing to do with me, and I'm not advertising it, but take a look at this link to a French internet-only flying magazine. (http://www.pegase.tv)

Mr Wolfie

18th Feb 2004, 01:19

Talking of Online Mags - There is always -

http://www.blueplane.co.uk/lefthander/JulyIssue/index.htm

God Forbid! :p

Mr.W

formationfoto

19th Feb 2004, 01:48

Flyed

Nick
Glad to have given you the chance to promote the mag! :-)

Shaggy Sheep Driver

19th Feb 2004, 05:35

Superb article in this month's 'Pilot' that is in the tradition of that mag. Graham Ellison's description of flying a 747 400 is a breath of fresh air. No techy stuff about SIDS and freqs and procedures and how the levers and knobs work - Graham leaves his anorak in the closet and tells us about what it's really like to sit in the pointy end of one of these leviathans of the air, mostly at night, and traverse half the globe.

More please!

SSD

strafer

20th Feb 2004, 18:31

Was flicking through an old edition of 'Pilot' last night (I was in Birmingham - what else was I going to do?) and a couple of things caught my eye:

1) Excellent article by a man whose name I forget about plane hire in the USA. It answered most of the questions/queries which regularly pop up on pprune about that, as well as giving some useful tips. So I thought, why can't the mags have back issues available on the net? The cost of web space is not as great as it was and it would be useful to be able to refer back to articles like that. Any Eds care to comment?

2) Another good article - this time a flight test of the Mk 26 replica Spitfires being produced in Australia. Although the author was good - what about getting someone like Geoffrey Wellum (or any other ex-Spitfire pilots) to test fly and compare it to 'real' Spits.

Aileron Roll

20th Feb 2004, 21:28

Damn good post !

If there's anything that really puts me to sleep its anything about how they operate the latest Air Bus or whatever....

Having said that American Flying Magazine have always excelled with their columns by Len Morgan, Gordon Baxter etc, always a good story and often a lesson or to learnt !

Philip Whiteman

20th Feb 2004, 23:47

'Why can't the mags have back issues on the net?' asks strafer.

There are many reasons, but the one of most significance to all of us who make our living from writing and photography is copyright. Reproduction of our material on the net constitutes fresh publication: either publishers pay for the usual first UK magazine publication rights AND first internet publication rights (something they rarely do) or they pay a seperate fee for publishing on the net. Unless they do one or the other, they are in breach of copyright law.

That said, any writer or photog can - and sometimes will - agree to net publication or waive any fee IF their permission is sought.

IO540

21st Feb 2004, 00:25

I think a bigger reason for lack of online back issues is that very little, if any, of the typical magazine content has any time-sensitive relevance to the average reader.

So most people would just read the back issues.

Let's face it, you could always read yesterday's papers. It wouldn't actually make any difference to you 99.9% of the time.

In reality, almost nobody wants to read a magazine on a PC, so the circulation would plummet. These mags aren't cheap!!

The Nr Fairy

21st Feb 2004, 02:06

540:

I dunno. Flying, and the techniques required to master it (or alternatively, stay alive until you give it up) are a perennial thing. So why not an internet archive / internet magazine ?

Philip Whiteman

21st Feb 2004, 02:31

Why no internet magazine? Must be because the revenue just doesn't add up. You can get a measure of advertising, but convincing people to pay for the thing - in an area where they have long grazed for free - is not easy. Also, you production costs - writing, photography and all that - cannot easily be reduced (this may be a writer and sometime photographer's conceit, but you do tend to get what you pay for - with the odd, noble exception, of course).

I would suggest that dedicated video magazines would be even less likely to appear on the net. Yes, yes, yes - the technology moves on, but look at the effect - or lack of it - on the quality of output: years ago, the average cine enthusiast could drive you mental with four-minute films full of crash zooms, crap edits and snatched little scenes that flash by at dizzying speed. Give the same bod a DV cam and what do you get? crash zooms, crap edits etc - but scenes that go on for hours (different flavour of boredom, but boredom nevertheless).

Really, you cannot avoid using a professional film-making crew (or at least a film crew capable of professional results). It takes time to produce a product worth watching - far longer than it takes to interview or photograph some worthy man or machine for a print piece - and (please feel free to join the chorus) time costs money - especially professional time.

Sorry if this all sounds terribly doom-laden: I'm not trying to trample on people's dreams - just trying to 'keep it real'...

IO540

21st Feb 2004, 03:12

TNF

I bet no more than a few % of GA magazine purchasers are regular internet users (other than pure email)

It would be impossible to make money.

PW

Are you suggesting that all of the GA magazines are of good quality? :O I would say 10% is of good quality and worthy of a reader intelligent enough to pass the PPL exams; the rest is recycled articles about antique planes, recycled text from Trevor Thom, adverts (lots of those), recycled CAA Safety Sense leaflets, recycled AAIB crash reports. And the last three are already online.

I think there should be a single modern aviation magazine, with a clear objective to take GA forward (regardless of the WW1-WW2 PPL training syllabus and regardless of similar CAA attitudes to modernisation), and another one (or more) for the train spotters.