LHR "Distance to go"

[28L]

Is it just that I'm going through a bad patch, or is the LHR "Distance to go" crystal ball playing up? For the umpteenth time recently I've been cleared descend from FL80ish to 4000 feet with "25 to run", necessitating a fairly rapid drop, only to arrive around 5000 feet realising from the TCAS traffic that it's going to be a great deal further than that, & hasty reduction in downward motion to 200fpm. Today it was nearer 35+ miles, nearly making me drive over central London at 4000 feet for 10 miles. As I say, not unusual in recent times. Trouble is, if I start on down at 500fpm in the anticipation of 35 miles, Sod's Law states that I'll be cut in quick.
Any directors out there with any info? Not a criticism, just interested.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Hey guys and gals - that Abacus I nicked when I retired - do you want it back?

[Gonzo]

Think it's just Jerricho getting more headset time in.......:D

[Faire d'income]

Q: What's the minimum rate of descent in controlled airspace? I think you should be doing more than 200fpm. :rolleyes:

[NigelOnDraft]

Fdi...

You obviously don't know the rules in the LTMA < TL - we're actually encouraged to use low RoDs... makes the CDA stats look good...!

NoD

[Jerricho]

B*llocks to you Gonzo........you know you're gonna miss me when I'm gone!!! ;)

As an honest answer, especially with afternoons like we had today (and I will get flamed for this!), the CDA can become secondary to getting you guys down from "stack levels" (low pressure today so our min stack being FL80), so we can get traffic from the stacks to an intermediate position. We do try to bust a gut to get you guys in a position where a CDA is very attainable. But sometimes this can go out the window when you're trying to get stuff down to ensure stack traffic won't be mixing it with stuff runing upwind from Biggin (for example). Plus, sometimes the ranges given by the Intermediate Directors varies from the Fin, who maybe has realised a better order (wake vortex), or has totally stuffed up (as happens ;) ) and missed a turn, and has squeezed somebody ahead.

And deep down (and please, feel free to expand on this) I would rather have a jet at or below the glide path than way above it with not that far to go!

[lostinBRU]

And deep down (and please, feel free to expand on this) I would rather have a jet at or below the glide path than way above it with not that far to go!

Spot on Jericho, and I've always found the guys at LHR sensitive to being too high with not many track miles to go.............

I don't know what type 28L operates but personally I like the challenge of arriving at LHR (A320/321) after 4-6 hrs and having a little mental gymnastics of "sorting it out" when presented with "go down and slow down" and not many miles to do it in.

I've never been presented with an unsolvable problem yet at LHR, unlike popping over the Alps at thirty'odd grand into Turin where they can expect miracles............:cool:

[Jerricho]

Lost,

We always try to keep you guys supplied with a picture of what were trying to do (especially drivers coming into Biggin not having been worded up and being sprung with "I can give you 22 miles straight in...............can you do it?" The challenge laid down!!!

But conversley, we all know nothing worse for a heavy driver from across the pond or elsewhere having something sprung on them at the last minute.....that ain't playing the game now!

[Faire d'income]

I could be wrong but the min rate of climb or descent in controlled airspace is 500fpm. The CDA is just a policy which we all try to achieve while still adhering to the Rules of the Air. :ok:

[TopBunk]

Faire d

Generally you are correct, but in the case of the LTMA you are wrong - previous threads refer.

[BANANASBANANAS]

I will arrive LHR 0630 (ish) tomorrow morning so will let you know how things go.

Personally I have never had a problem with LHR ATC and having operated into some of the more undesirable parts of the world have to say that I think you guys generally do a fantastic job.

[Captain Airclues]

As you know, all approaches at LHR, LGW and STN are automatically monitored, and any level segment of two miles will produce a CDA infringement. In periods of high ATC workload due to factors beyond anyones control, should it not be possible to suspend the monitoring?

Faire d'income

I believe that the rules say that the 500fpm does not apply below transition level in the LTMA, but havn't got my books with me so can't give you a reference.

Airclues

[Jerricho]

Cpt, that's an excellent idea. And while we try our hardest to ensure our noise abatement procedures (especially at night), separation or non-CDA, I think we all know which we would prefer.