Transit through Manchester's Class D

[PPPPP]

En route from Sheffield back to Barton this morning at what sounded like quite a busy time I had planned a route to the north of CAS via Crosland Moor. However as soon as I was identified, Manchester Approach offered a zone transit more or less direct to Barton. Since the cloud base was descending and there was a sizeable headwind this made my day much easier. Many thanks to the anonymous gentleman, it was much appreciated.

(edited for appalling punctuation:))

[1261]

You were lucky the right watch was on!

Plenty of pilots on this morning's crew.

[Timothy]

1261

Could you publish their duty roster? :}

Timothy

[opnot]

1261

not a pilot this time. far from it, just somebody trying to be helpful

[Field In Sight]

Somebody there must have been in a good mood. We were allowed to transit directly across the final approach path at about 12pm on Friday.

I can't see what all the fuss is about Class 'D' transits in the UK.

We had to orbit for a Dash 8 on final (which was fine) but we could/would have gone higher/lower/any type of vectoring to help the ATCO out.

It may have helped that we got the Barton FISO to call ahead and at least warn them that we would be asking for a transit once airborne.

It may also have helped that our destination was to the east of the zone making the track much more direct with the help of the transit.

FIS

[opnot]

FIS

Its not a case of someone being in a good mood ,it is a case of workload.You cannot expect to route through Manchs center line if we have a constant stream of inbounds. Continous tfc info would have to be given to the arrivals on you and to you on the arrivals, whilst you are transitting through the centre line

Dont forget , ask for a direct routing ,we can refuse, but most of the time you get what you ask for.

[Field In Sight]

opnot, don't take it the wrong way. I obviously missed the required smiley. :}. I completely understand it is on a workload permitting basis.

My point was that from reading on PPRUNE Manchester seems to allow transits less frequently than other class 'D' zones which means most of the time it is just better off just going around. This may just be hearsay.

Personnally I relate flying through class 'D' here in the UK as being the same as class 'C' in the US. However, over there I would always plan direct and be quite happy to accept vectors or altitudes to "stay out of the way".

For example, I was flying with a friend a couple of years ago from Huddersfield back to Liverpool. We were talking to Manchester and identified on radar. We were just skimming North of the zone and due to a slight error in nav :} we skimmed a bit to close by about 1/4 of a mile into the zone. Suffice to say we got a bit of a lecture.

Fair enough, it was our fault, but we were radar identified and known traffic. Therefore (1) I would rather just be notified of my slight error in position and just cleared into the airspace if I was no factor or just told to (2) s%d off.

I definately think option (1) encourages safer flying and more co-operation.

Also, I can quite understand it not being easy to thread us through traffic on final approach, but would you be more likely to clear us through the overhead.

FIS.

[opnot]

FIS

No offence taken .Re your incurrsion into the zone, I am afraid in all walks of life there are people who will jump on you if you make any sort of error,however trivial.

[twistedenginestarter]

Is this about VFR traffic? I thought the protocol was VFR traffic shouldn't contact Manchester any more than Stansted etc. I thought the general idea is VFR traffic must always use the lanes and otherwise not pester ATC.

I flew from Barton a few years ago and had plotted a direct route across Liverpool. I was told no chance - re-plot for the corridor. Are you telling me Manchester sometimes go soft on VFR traffic?

[bagpuss lives]

Not soft - I think "helpful when workload permits" is a more suitable phrase :)

[opnot]

Twistedenginestarter

Once you are west of the low level route you are in Liverpools airspace.They may have said no to your zone entry on a direct routing.They do control the airspace west of the low level route

[twistedenginestarter]

Just to make absolutely sure I don't blemish the reputation of either Liverpool or Manchester, it wasn't either ATC units that deterred me from a transit request. It was the flying club people at Barton. (Who incidentally are very nice people also. If you like grass fields and death-defying roller-coasters, you've got it all-in-one at Barton)

[spekesoftly]

twisted,

Thanks for putting the record straight, but you still raise an interesting point re the Barton guys. If I had a £1 for every time a Barton based a/c had transited the L'pool CTZ over the past 25yrs or so, I'd make the Duke of Westminster look like a pauper! ;)