Another stupid question - PPR

[Timothy]

Are you supposed to get PPR before you nominate a PPR field as an alternate?

In this instance I am thinking about Filton, who get a little shirty if you forget to get PPR, but the question is general.

Timothy

[chiglet]

Timothy,
A "very" interesting question.
As far as I am aware, a VFR "Filed Flight Plan" with Dest xxxx and Alt yyyy, the Flight Plan is sent to Dest only, and not the Alt.
However, if you file IFR, your Flightplan is sent to your Alt as well
Hope that this helps
watp,iktch

[jack-oh]

We get this alot in the military. Someone nominates you as a diversion on a flight plan without even asking you if you can handle, park, fuel them etc. Out of spite we usually phone them up and tell them to S*D off.

[Chilli Monster]

Timothy

In a word - no (for civil airfields, I wouldn't dream of nominating a militaryy one without asking). Even Filton doesn't need PPR if you end up diverting in. The requirement is purely for planned flights inbound. Don't do what some do however and that's put an alternate down which isn't actually open at the times of flight. (yes - seen that one a few times ;) )

[vintage ATCO]

However, if you file IFR, your Flightplan is sent to your Alt as well


Are you sure about that? Changed since my day if it is!!
I don't think IFPS does this.


VA

[Timothy]

Chilli

Good, cos you're my alternate on Friday. With the best will in the world...I hope not to see you :p

Thanks, guys, clear answer as ever - military, yes, civil, no

Timothy

[M609]

However, if you file IFR, your Flightplan is sent to your Alt as well

IFPS in Brussels does not send FPL to ALT AD, but you brits do a lot of peculiar stuff, so.......
However, we often recive FPL on military flights, when issuing agency (ex. Ascot ops) is military, and we are alternate for the flight in question. (The sender has put our adress in in addtion to IFPS)

[DFC]

IMHO if the airfield is PPR then permission must be obtained before using that airfield as a destination or as an alternate.

That opinion comes from the fact that we can not tell in advance why the owner/operator requires the PPR.

In filton's case, it is a licensed aerodrome and so most info would be available by NOTAM however, my book says that it is 24hrPPR and perhaps if nobody called up today they could all take a day off tomorrow.

For unlicensed airfields, then the PPR is the only way of checking the status of the airfield since no NOTAMS are issued. Bad news diverting to find the runway closed due flooding.

Recent case reported about Southampton where a pilot diverting there was refused use of the airport because they did not have PPR.

However, when calling it is important to emphasise that you are only asking for PPR in the event of a diversion. Otherwise they may report you overdue after the 45 minutes have elapsed (no flight plan).

Of course an emergency situation changes everything!!

Regards,

DFC

[VCR]

I dont think Filton, who are a LARS unit, would close the following day because no-one 'booked in'!!!!

[Timothy]

I'm sure that Chilli will tell us, but I assume that if BAe is doing something they don't want interfered with (certification testing for example, where a five minute interruption might mean starting from the beginning again, or something confidential) they refuse PPR.

Timothy

[Barnaby the Bear]

For what its worth. At my unit, we are strictly PPR for the reasons given previously. We require it for insurance (I believe) and for upto date information regarding unserviceabilities (Be honest how many pilots read NOTAMS properly??), and because we are in a sparsely populated area. Therefore we need to know if overdue action is needed.
As for alternates, we are not on the AFTN, but if an A/C is using us as an alternate, those wonderful people at Heathrow FPLS usually fax a copy of the flight plan.
We would never refuse a pilot if diverting unless we were unsuitable.
:8

[FlyingForFun]

Out of interest, does anyone know (either with reference to some statistics, or just in your personal experience) how many aircraft which don't make it to the planned destination divert to a planned alternate, as opposed to heading into some other airfield which isn't a planned alternate?

I've had to divert, on VFR flights (so probably not directly related to this thread) a couple of times, either as pilot or pax. If I'd planned a diversion airfield in advance (not required for a VFR flight, so I often don't, depending on the nature of the flight and the forecast conditions), I doubt I would have planned the airfield which I actually ended up in on any of those occassions.

FFF
--------------

[Chilli Monster]

Timothy's reasoning behind non-PPR is one of the reasons. Another being we have a cargo airline's maintenance based with us now. They often need the middle of the runway for engine runs.

And no - we don't close because 'no-one books in'. We're never that quiet ;)

[eyeinthesky]

Just how would you phrase your PPR?

"We might be coming in if the weather's not nice. Not sure about the time. Not even sure how many people on board. We might need some fuel, but it depends. We might need parking, but it depends.." and so on.

It's not a whole lot of use to the diversion airfield for planning purposes, and as a pilot you don't really know whether you have permission or not. Does the Alternate airfield, having given PPR, then have to chase up the aircraft when it doesn't arrive, just to make sure it hasn't crashed on the way?

As for clearing the runway, seems a bit tenuous. Don't forget fuel reserves. IFR at least, you should have enough to hold for 45mins at your alternate, which should be plenty to move even the slowest of obstructions off the runway.

My vote is for 'No need', but if you are worried about it, choose somewhere which isn't PPR. Or declare an emergency and they have to take you!

[mattpilot]

why do you guys make everything so complicated in the UK? Its so simple on this side of the lake :cool: :cool:

[Timothy]

My vote is for 'No need', but if you are worried about it, choose somewhere which isn't PPR.Life ain't that simple. This train of thought arose because I had an important business meeting in Cardiff. If Rhoose went out either for weather or blocked runway, the only place I would be likely to get into and still be able to make a mad dash across the Severn Bridge from would be Filton. Bristol and Staverton are considerably further. So Filton is the obvious alternate, but then...

...loop back to beginning of thread :)

Timothy