Startup Clearance in a spamcan

[Capt. Manuvar]

As a PPL I am a bit confused as to whether I'm supposed to ask for startup clearance at controlled airports. The VFR flight guides don't say anything about startup clearance and CAP 413 is vague.
The controlled airports that i usually fly to are Coventry, Cambridge and east midlands, sorry London nottingham east midlands:} .
I ask for startup clearance just to be on the safe side. Could anyone please tell me if this is necessary.
Capt. manuvar

[Chilli Monster]

Unless your flightguide / UK AIP advises otherwise then no - there's normally no need to call for it if you're a VFR piston engined aircraft. IFR then yes, because that's the prompt to start getting clearances, but not VFR.

[FlyingForFun]

IFR then yesCM,

Would I be right in assuming that by "IFR" you are refering to airways flights? I've flown IFR from controlled airports a couple of times, but not on airways (since I only have an IMC rating), and not on flight plans. I've never requested startup clearance, and never had a problem, but I'd be happy to change the way I do things if I've misunderstood you, and it would make your life easier for me to do so.

FFF
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[matspart3]

FFF

It's not necessarily just IFR 'Airways' flights. An ATC Unit has to give you a departure clearance which will separate you from other IFR traffic, so a heads up when you're planning to depart IFR is very helpful.

It also gives Chilli Monster time to put his tea down and finish the crossword before issuing you a clearance!!

[Field In Sight]

I thought it was for the following reason:

If you called up for clearance/taxi and there is a delay significant enough for you to shutdown the engine.

On turbine aircraft this would use up one of it's startup/shutdown cycles which would reduce the time to the scheduled maintenance.

On piston aircraft there are no such limitations.

Waiting to be proved wrong though!

FIS

[MikeeB]

I was told to request start-up, purely from the POV that you may start-up and then find you've got to sit there for 20-30 minutes while a load of jets come in or go out. (so I was told)

Made me chuckle on my QXC at East Midlands. I requested start-up etc. and after completing my power checks at a hold about midway down the runway I went on the radio and said I was ready for departure.

However just before I did, a holiday jet was at the start of 27 and said he was ready.....

ATC said "as the jet radioed first, they can go first"

Back to the question, I don't suppose it does any harm?

[Chilli Monster]

It also gives Chilli Monster time to put his tea down and finish the crossword before issuing you a clearance!!
Damn! Rumbled again ;)

[almost professional]

would not expect a piston single to call for start-but many do, even if on an IFR clearance there is normally enough time in taxy/checks to dep warn and get releases as needed
mikeeb-sorry if you were delayed but jet probably slotted-if you had been a club aircraft in that situation we would have got you away with an early turn to avoid the wake vortex penalty, but not prudent to ask tyro's to do such things!

[Keef]

I remember getting soundly told off at le Touquet for starting without clearance, because I was on an IFR flight plan back to the UK. A single, FPL'ed at 4000 feet.

I regularly file IFR out of Southend, and never call for start clearance. Doesn't seem to bother the ATCOs.

[bookworm]

I think it makes sense to call for start if:

a) there's a possibility of flow control meaning that you've got a slot

b) you know that ATC at your point of departure is going to have to coordinate with another unit.

So for example at Cambridge heading north into uncontrolled airspace I wouldn't bother. Heading south where coordination with Essex is desirable, I'd probably call for start.

[lucky luke]

JAR regulations do not require startup clearance for piston powered aircraft. Might still be a good idea if you suspect long delay and want to save fuel.

[Timothy]

I don't think that the issue for ATC is whether you actually start engines, it's that you give them time to wake the system up.

In a jet with GPU/APU I would always call because the engines use a significant amount of fuel when running in ground idle.

In a piston I start, then ask for start, because I do not want to use valuable battery reserves transmitting and waiting for the response. Pistons don't really use significant amounts of fuel in ground idle.

If the worst happens and I am told of a 30 min delay, I shut down again.

Timothy

[FlyingForFun]

Ok, so it sounds like it's probably not necessary for us piston types in most cases, but for IFR flights it certainly won't do any harm to ask. Besides which, we all know there's nothing worse than a controller who's just spilt his tea over his crossword because we didn't give him enough warning we were about to leave!

FFF
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[MikeeB]

mikeeb-sorry if you were delayed but jet probably slotted-if you had been a club aircraft in that situation we would have got you away with an early turn to avoid the wake vortex penalty, but not prudent to ask tyro's to do such things!


No need to say sorry, I quite enjoyed sitting at the hold and watching a jet go thundering past :)

It was just comical the way the "well the jet can go first because he asked first" was said :)

I fully expected to have to wait my turn.

Really enjoyed my visit to E.Mids. The nice person who I talked to on the radio offered to show me around when I took my form to get signed. Very interesting to see things from the other side, even with my lack of experience. After leaving and setting off to H.Side, the gent on the radio said "Waddington have closed for the day, so will you be okay?", "well stay on this frequency until you can talk to Humberside anyway"

[ShyTorque]

Ah, yes, at Europe Nottingham East Midlands Airport the ATC staff are so friendly, even to rotary pukes... :p

[almost professional]

now-how should I take that post?
any rotary winged reader should ask the operators/users of costock about the service they receive

[PhilD]

I got ticked-off in the Arrow at Alderney recently for starting without asking first - for the somewhat pompous reason that "this is an Airport - not an Airfield!". I'm interested to learn that startup clearance for pistons is not in the JAR regs - so given the lack of turbines and jets at EGJA that should save radio time in future.