Army Air Corps Pilots...?? [Archive]

ChristopherRobin

29th Jan 2004, 17:26

Once again the assumption that this forum is just for RAF pilots - most AAC people who come in here registered literally years before you lot even heard of it.

...but back to the point, The AAC is a great organisation to join, and if you only want to fly for a few years then it is great, but when you join as an officer you will be condemned to a desk job just as you are getting used to being a pilot - this is not just my experience, you understand, but the career profile for all officers.

Unlike the airforce and navy, we have NCO pilots, which 'frees' the officers to do all the desk jobs.

You will fly, it will be fun, but by the time you are 27 you will have waved goodbye to fun and be knuckling down to some serious hard work. If you can have a look at the AAC directory (if you know anyone who can lend you a copy), just have a look at some of the jobs from Captain upwards - I have never seen such a collection of dreary jobs in my life, almost all the people in there are shining their @rses at a thankless drone's job.

Such is the life of an Army Officer, and if you want a career as an Army Officer then the AAC is the place to do it, but if you want to fly, then join the army as a soldier and don't go to RMAS. You could join the RAF, if you have a predisposition to being chippy, supercilious and living in a mess that looks like a downmarket conference centre, or why not try the navy?

Incidentally, the AAC now claim in briefings that they advise young officers that they will not fly all the time and that if you want to be a pilot you should look elsewhere. I'd like to think that they were that honest, but that would be changing the habit of a lifetime, because it never happened in the past.

It would be interesting to hear what your experiences of this have been.

theundisputedtopgun

29th Jan 2004, 17:27

Do the army do flying grading? or am i thinking of the navy? If they do, i would imagine a ppl would be an advantage

As for arrse, good point. I seem to remember it made for depressing reading.

flygunz

29th Jan 2004, 18:32

Foz2
Chris me old mate as usual has posted some good advice and I would endorse his view that the arrse website lives up to its name and most of what you get there is ill informed whining!
The fact that an Officers flying tour ends for the Staff career shouldn't put you off if you have the ability to graduate through Sandhurst, it's a huge achievement and one that will remain with you forever. If you just want to fly then the RAF is for you where there is more choice of what you can fly depending on your ability. The Navy is a different beast and you should take advice from those that are both happy and unhappy with life aboard to get a balanced picture.
I spent a long time flying in the AAC both as a soldier and as an Officer before leaving and I have to say that the most fun was had as a soldier but these days fun is relative to the number of conflicts you get involved in. The AAC of course has the Apache and if the attack ethos presses your switch then maybe the AAC is for you ( if you want the skinny on the ethos PM me!!)
Whatever you decide best of luck.
:ok:

Autorot8

29th Jan 2004, 19:48

The two comments from the AAC Pilots are fair. From a Soldier Pilots point of view I wouldn't advice you to come through that route, we do get the lion share of the flying but most of the fun has gone. The 'AH' thing is all the rage, if your not 'AH', your not!

I honestly don't think any flying experience will be of any use to you what so ever, on Grading or any other part of the course. The Theory side of it will, but don't confuse Mil' Flying with Civil, very different!

If your passion is to fly, I think you should take another look at the RAF. You are obviously interested in Helicopters if you are looking at the AAC, I think you will find that the RAF Heli' guys get quite alot of time in the saddle.

Hope that helps. Best of luck anyway.

(AAC WO2 on Lynx)

Foz2

30th Jan 2004, 07:30

Thanks very much for all the advice, it does seem that if I want to fly then joining AAC as an officer is maybe not the best thing to do. I certainly dont want to be chained to a desk!!

Ive looked at the RAF but, correct me if Im wrong, you have to serve for minimum 12yrs if you join as a heli pilot. Whereas AAC is only 6? Does anyone know if this is the case in the Navy as well (as a heli pilot?).

Thanks

Foz2

Always_broken_in_wilts

30th Jan 2004, 08:32

If you are worried about "how long" then the service life is not for you and maybe a civvie option would be better. Go have alook at some of the other threads to find out about how long possible "holds" are. basically military life as aircrew is not a short term option:p

all spelling mistakes are "df"alcohol induced

MobiusTrip

30th Jan 2004, 12:03

Wilts,

Another point of view if I may (I have not been in as long as you (from what I gather) but I have been in a while (mid 80's) and I have formed some opinions on this).

I would not discourage a "how long?" candidate - in fact I think it shows a high degree of common sense. I was a '"how long?" guy before I joined because I didn't KNOW what it was like. Many of my colleagues did their 2 tours (i.e. the armed forces got their 'money's worth' from them) and a lot more stayed in (inc me).

If I had a candidate who gave me the "I want to serve my entire career in the forces" line, then the reply to "how do you know, you are not actually doing it yet?" was often quite.... delayed.

There are 2 sides to every story.....

MT

ps) However, I must say that I have had a blast my entire time in and I'm still loving it :-) Nothing outside compares (and I did some stuff outside too!)

zerospeed

30th Jan 2004, 13:41

Foz 2,

Just to clarify, when you join the RAF it is either on a Permanent Commission (PC) or a Short Service Commission (SC). A PC is 16 years or 38 years old which ever is later. A SC is, as you rightly said, 12 years. However your return of service is 6 years, which means you can opt to leave after that point, but you do lose your pension and some other benefits. I would thoroughly advise you to join the RAF over the AAC, if flying is your main goal. As a Junior Officer in the RAF you have very little desk work to do, as opposed to the AAC Officers. People seem to be alot happier and better treated in the RAF, you just have to look at the amount of pilots crossing over. Also, if you are that way inclined, a career whilst remaining a fully operational pilot is very possible, unlike in the AAC.

Ropey Pilot

30th Jan 2004, 20:57

Foz2
I would agree with pretty much everything said on this thread so far..

Your PPL won't make any difference to the AAC, in fact since the aim of grading is to see how much you improve with instruction I have heard of PPL holders doing worse since they don't shed bad habits easily and hence appear less 'absorbant' to the pearls of wisdom flowing from the LHS.

As an officer in the AAC look at the career structure before you commit, officers careers have changed radically recently and how long you remain at the front line will now depend on your time served, not your age. Everyone here loves to fly, but remember that what floats your boat now may not be quite so satisfying in 20 years time (do you want to be a chief or an indian?). If you want to fly above all else for the rest of your career, AAC officer is not for you.

While it is true that if you want to fly forever the RAF or Navy are better choices (I wouldn't go into the army as a soldier for this reason as you can't start the pilots course till you have been selected for promotion to Cpl, and even then the number of squaddies who were promised "no problem - do a few years and you'll be straight on the pilot's course" who are still floating around on the ground is huge! But on my pilot's course (tri-service) we had a crab on the basic rotary stage of the course who had been in the RAF for 6 years and had done nothing but his pilots course and holding posts, and was still at the same stage as the army boys (and girls) who had been on the course for 4 months. (admittedly he was fast jet and got all the way up to valley before being chopped - but still, 6 years :\ )

Whichever way you jump nothing beats decent qulity military flying (you are never going to turn below treetop height and come face to face with a tank commander who is further from the ground than you are while flying a cessna :E :E :E )

Hope it all works out:ok:

Talk Split

31st Jan 2004, 00:54

I'm speaking from the point of view of a Navy flyer who has served on an AAC squadron.

If you want to fly as an officer for more than one tour (2 years) then don't join the AAC. You WILL end up doing a staff job after 2 or 3 years flying and unless you are very lucky, won't touch the sticks and switches again.

If you want to fly jets then join the RAF, if you can stand the uniform and dubious work ethos.

If you want to be a real millitary officer who flies helicopters in varied environments then join the Royal Navy and push for Commando Sea Kings.

The PPL may help in the early stages of flying training but any advantage soon dissipates when going through operational flying training.

Nuff said...

MUDGUTZ

31st Jan 2004, 05:01

Such is the life of an Army Officer, and if you want a career as an Army Officer then the AAC is the place to do it, but if you want to fly, then join the army as a soldier and don't go to RMAS. You could join the RAF, if you have a predisposition to being chippy, supercilious and living in a mess that looks like a downmarket conference centre, or why not try the navy.

I like your posts, ChristopherRobin.

They are nearly as well written as mine!

I think it's you that's a little bit chippy though.

Do you post on the AAC forum www.spanker.com ?

SandChopper

31st Jan 2004, 21:06

Talk Split - I thought you pushed the Sea King as opposed to 'push for it'. Still, a balanced arguement!

C'Robin - as always comments from the trench, no surprise really from the 'soldier 1st brigade'.

Basically take your pick, become a professional pilot and stay in hotels OR wear green, become as bitter as C'Robin and look at the Apache's in storage....... until someone else gets them.

Best of luck:ok:

flygunz

1st Feb 2004, 20:34

The inference that RAF Pilots are more professional than their senior service colleagues is very last year. Sadly, from the blinkered confines of the desert, dorks like Sandchopper still look to raise a bite. However I'm more interested in the Rotorhub piece that puts Army Apache training in context so I would very much doubt whether anyone else will 'get them'.

First UK Apaches ready for crews to convert to role
Defence Helicopter (23 Jan)
23 January

The first of the British Army’s line-squadron Apache AH Mk1 crews are nearly ready to begin their Conversion to Role training. As one of three squadrons in the 9th Regiment Army Air Corps (AAC), the 656 Squadron crews will complete their Conversion to Type training at Middle Wallop by the end of March ‘03 and then move north.

Their eight Apache AH Mk1s are already in situ at 9 AAC’s base at Dishforth in the North East of England. Each aircraft has already been put through extensive acceptance by the squadron’s REME maintainers and are being flown extensively by the resident Air Manoeuvre Training Advisory Team (AMTAT).

“Rumours of the Apache’s digital electronics package not working are plain wrong,” says Captain Kevin Hainey, the man who’s job it is to make all such things work. He reports that the aircraft are communicating across both non secure and secure channels between aircraft and the ground - ‘secure has often come out on top.’ One instance saw an Apache hovering at 15 feet over the Otterburn training area talking on VHF FM secure to an Apache at 500 feet over Dishforth, a distance over 100km.

Major David Amlôt, SO2, Ops adds: “We are using the IDM between aircraft. We are not yet established with a ground based IDM radio in the Regiment, they are coming in to service with various components of the Army this year, notably Forward Air Controllers. Trials have already been conducted with Apache using the IDM to talk to these ground stations and other platforms.”

By mid-January ‘04 there were eight Apaches on-site with others arriving at the rate of one every fortnight. They are being housed in renovated hangers, part of a £48 million investment by the Ministry of Defence to transform this ex-RAF station up to the standards required by a front-line attack helicopter unit. The newly built training centre is the pinnacle of this investment. Managed by the Westland/Boeing joint-venture company Aviation Training International Limited (ATIL), it houses the AAC’s only Field Deployable Simulators.

- Andrew Drwiega

First UK Apaches ready for crews to convert to role

zerospeed

2nd Feb 2004, 10:13

Rotary Pongo,

You are right it only takes us 6 months because we miss out the important lessons like how to cheat on gameshows and use the internet for sexy strip shows. I'm not sure what the Puma comment was about, but the AAC really don't have a leg to stand on at the moment. Lynx are part timers and the Gazelles have all been sent home from the gulf, whilst we mop up all your work on both fronts. At Shawbury the Army and Airforce do have a different ethos, but I noticed a huge amount of you getting chopped whilst whinging about us not ironing creases in our flying suits. I even knew some that starched them adding fuel to the already fire degraded suits! Not to mention all the punch ups that again reinforced your high Officer qualities. I think you need to dry your eyes and stop whining about the RAF before you come to your senses and cross over like so many already have.

PS It's Linton not Lynton you arse!

BEagle

2nd Feb 2004, 14:56

Nevertheless, anyone who drives from Valley or Linton-on-Ouse to Shawbury and then puts on flying kit to go to the OM bar is indeed a total dork! Much as I used to share the RN's opinion of our blunty-blue RAC patrolman's uniform, I was surprised to learn on the JTIDS course at Boulmer that FJ crews actually used to drive up from places like Coningsby and then do the course in their green romper suits...:rolleyes:

Shame that the awful RAF uniform is so shabby; the only other time I had to wear a V-necked pullover with a tie as my uniform was at prep school. Even my CCF (pongo section) uniform was smarter than the blunty blue rig.

ChristopherRobin

2nd Feb 2004, 16:50

Zerospeed - people in glass houses shouldn't play with frag grenades. The people you mention were from different regiments and corps so we couldn't give a crap about them because the Army is a collection of regiments and corps, not really a homogenous organisation.

The RAF, on the other hand is a homogenous organisation and there have been plenty of dirt from there - I can't remember his name, but who was the 2-faced b@st@rd that put out the standards of behaviour booklet while having an adulterous affair? He was definitely RAF though. And what about the celebrated RAF officer that I learned about in this very forum that ejected from a vulcan for no good reason leaving his back-seaters to die?

Turning to how busy you guys are in the desert, one could find it simple to contrast that with your performance in N.I. where you will find a lot of people prepared to discuss the "effectiveness" of the RAF's role there where the weather isn't as balmy. Everyone knows that the Lynx is crap in the desert because we bought it from Westland's - that's not the fault of the guys operating it who I absolutely guarantee you are living and fighting in much tougher conditions than you'll ever see in your puff.

So if you want to sling that sort of mud, I'm sure we could go on and on ad infinitum, if not ad astra.

...But we're here to advise Foz2 about what his options are, not parry fairly ineffectual and uninteresting banter from you.

Foz2 - here is my advice if you want to do really good operational flying and be an officer and fly the Apache: Join the AAC, transfer to the Navy when you spot the deskjob hoving into view, fly junglies and come back to the AAC on attachment.

It's worked for a few guys already - so why not give it a go? The AAC, like any decent medieval feudal society, rewards disloyalty by offering sweeteners to come back and stay loyal. The ordinary serfs, sticking with the Corps through thick and thin, get what they're given, and because they don't complain, aren't given very much.

Some may call me bitter, but I don't think that I am (even though I clearly sound like I am). I made my choice, and no, I don't fly any more, but hope to again soon. My desk job is one of the very best I could have hoped for it's interesting and varied - it's just that I'd rather be flying and where's the harm in that?

I have had a terrific time soldiering in the Army Air Corps and made some good calls in my career, some bad. Why am I still in the AAC? Like any good relationship sometimes you really love it and sometimes you totally hate it. Isn't that better than meandering along in amiable tolerance for the rest of your life?

Always_broken_in_wilts

2nd Feb 2004, 19:24

CR,
Jolly well done old bean, another well balanced mature offering for the attention of the curious applicant:ok: I think he has probably come to the same conclusion as the rest of us in here..........If you are typical of the current Sandhurst output he's is better orf out of it. :yuk:

Your 2 mindless posts have done nothing to point the guy in the right direction but have rather slipped into the usual cross service slanging match.....ARRSE how aptly titled:p

Get a life fella:rolleyes:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

ChristopherRobin

2nd Feb 2004, 19:59

you obviously didn't read my last post or you'd realise that I tend to slag off all services equally, my own more than any.

In any case I was merely replying to zerospeed's diatribe a few posts above - what's the matter? Are you selective in who you criticise for cross-service banter or is it just that you have no sense of humour?

And I don't think that anyone can point Foz2 in the 'right' direction, as that entirely depends on what sort of person he is and what he wants out of life. I think most people have realised that and pitched their posts along the lines of "if you want x out of a career go for b, but if not then you should consider a"

but the thing is that there's actually no need to say it in such a dry way, so most people try to inject a bit of healthy cynicism and/or humour into their posts for the amusement of many and the baiting of a few.

funny how often it works, eh?

ShyTorque

2nd Feb 2004, 20:09

Christopher Robin

You say you aren't bitter, but you certainly DO seem so. Good humoured banter? Accusing a pilot of ejecting without good reason, leaving his crew to die? Which planet did you come from?

What is the purpose of such a provocative, dirt digging post with regard to the originator's question?

I certainly recall a few things about the AAC if you like to see some of your own dirty washing hanging out in public. :mad:

Always_broken_in_wilts

2nd Feb 2004, 20:49

ST,
Don't stoop to his level as I am sure the original poster here will have seen straight through his bitter and rather twisted vitriol...........guess being desk bound turns you into a grumy old bloke:O

Just a thought tho, if the "TWA" is such a brill outfit how come there is not a huge queue of RAF peeps seeking to be drumstick drivers yet there does seem to be steady flow of brown trying to convert to blue in order to fly a more modern and demanding stock :ok: . Only a thought:p

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

ChristopherRobin

2nd Feb 2004, 20:59

Shy Torque - the incident I mentioned took place. I can't remember the name of the person involved, but older members of the RAF will know.

ABIW - 'twisted vitriol'? you are clearly a sensitive chap if you think that's what my relatively benign comments are. I think many would agree that while cynicism generally features in my posts, the advice given previously was measured enough.

I think that you're having a bad monday.

And in answer to your question regarding why there isn't a queue of RAF officers wishing to transfer to the AAC, have you ever considered that it is because we employ corporals to do the same job as a Flt Lt and that equivalence might have been all that they would get offered?

Always_broken_in_wilts

2nd Feb 2004, 21:27

CR,
"I think that you're having a bad monday"..........I'm on leave how bad can that be:p

"And in answer to your question regarding why there isn't a queue of RAF officers wishing to transfer to the AAC, have you ever considered that it is because we employ corporals to do the same job as a Flt Lt and that equivalence might have been all that they would get offered?"...........And you really believe that:ok: :yuk: I think it's more along the lines of lifestyle and challenge that keeps them in blue:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

ShyTorque

2nd Feb 2004, 23:15

Christopher Robin,

I would have been what you might call an "older member of the RAF". I do know the details of the incident, more than you appear to know yourself. I read the newspaper reports at the time and later, the BOI report. I also know the unfortunate person in question and he told me his side of the story.

To post a distorted view of the incident like you have done is bad enough, but to subsequently attempt to categorise your mention of the incident as banter for the purpose of "injecting some humour" is really quite appalling.

You do your own Service no good.

Scud-U-Like

3rd Feb 2004, 00:47

Oh dear. All we need now is some pi$$ed-up slapper to wade in shouting, "Leave it, ee's not wurf it!" and we'll have a propper little scrap going.

Bill O'Average

3rd Feb 2004, 02:00

CR, I'm shocked and stunned that you've taken the bait of the two most notorious 'off threaders'. You know, Beagle and ABIW. Such empty lives lead them to seek amusement in this way I feel.

Foz, wade through the deliberate attempts to sway your opinion and look at what you want out of a career.

A summary if you will;

A. Flying, low ethos and a dubious uniform - RAF

B. Some flying in a challenging environment (mainly the challenge to get off the ground) with the inevitable desk job. - AAC

C. A balance of both with hopefully the best bits of both - FAA (Golden rivet inspections a necessity).

The dark horse is a RM commision of course. Take B mix it with C and fill in A.

Always_broken_in_wilts

3rd Feb 2004, 02:48

Bill,
It's a fair cop:E but what has poor old Beag's done in here that deserves your rebuke :p

With regards your recommendations there is a typo I believe...

"A. Flying, low ethos and a dubious uniform" should surely have read "Flying low, ethos and a dubious uniform":ok: We'll give you the uniform bit.

For the sake of keeping up tradition you can keep the "anal retention initiation ceremony" you allude to and we will continue to dress poorly........hows that for a compromise :p

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

Bill O'Average

3rd Feb 2004, 03:00

Regrettably, the "anal retention initiation ceremony" happens long before I can get my hands on them, DHFS I believe.;)

I only mentioned Beags just to make him feel wanted. I'll bet it's lonely in that nursing home with only a catheter and 5iss bowl for company.

Compromise, The RAF's motto!:p

Always_broken_in_wilts

3rd Feb 2004, 03:23

Bill,
In your first line...........can you just enlarge on what it is you are dissapointed to have missed:p

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

BEagle

3rd Feb 2004, 03:37

I thank Mr Below Average, whose nom de PPRuNe no doubt reflects his routine assessments, for his comments. He truly is a shining wit.

Or perhaps that's a spoonerism?

If he went to the right sort of school he'll be able to understand that. If not, well he could always ask a grown-up to explain!

Bill O'Average

3rd Feb 2004, 04:07

Ever the comic, Beags. I take it you do the social club circuit now?

Your are a prat, that aint a spoonerism.:rolleyes:

I suppose I'll ask you then beags. You are, after all, the most grown up on here.

Jobber.:p

Always_broken_in_wilts

3rd Feb 2004, 04:17

Tsk Tsk :{ maybe a change of name to Bill Actyourage would be appropriate at this point.

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

Bill O'Average

3rd Feb 2004, 04:26

Lol, of course Beagles stooge pipes up!

Just as well Beags doesnt act his age.

Anyhow, enough of beags dragging a thread off topic again because 1.) he doesnt understand it. 2.) he doesnt agree with it 3.) he feels he should have an opinion but doesnt.

Back to topic.

Foz, let us know what you've decided. Good luck.

MOSTAFA

3rd Feb 2004, 05:43

"Mugger be"

No matter how I try I cant get a spoonerism out of "your a prat"

Come on chaps the poor lad only wants some advice! Foz, see what you started, its all your fault. Just go to the recruiting office, when you have been to all 3, make a decision. You are probably going to need to make a few on your own during a flying course. Besides all recruiters spin as much as Tony Blair.

Enjoy it.

Bill O'Average

3rd Feb 2004, 05:51

Hence "Your are a prat, that aint a spoonerism".:p

zerospeed

3rd Feb 2004, 08:52

CR,

I find it very amusing that you have to go all the way back to our cold war vulcan days to sling mud, where as i have only refered to a couple of recent incidents. Even then the incident is dubious at best, I feel you are treading a fine line.

Please tell me about the tough conditions the Lynx boys are facing, as I thought that the RAF is providing most of the SH in Telic, as well as the observation platforms. Not to mention all the SH in NI, apart from when the AAC need to keep their currencies! You are truly out of touch with who is doing the lions share of the work, ....... oh I'm sorry it's us lazy, unfit ones! As you said....... soldiering........ be the best, leave the aviation to us.

Bring on anyone that wishes to discuss the effectiveness of the RAF in NI!:ok:

Bill O'Average

3rd Feb 2004, 09:46

Non argument really. It always goes round and round, 'my dads better than yours' etc.

Who cares??

PS zero, when you say who is the most effective in NI, do you mean as we speak? Well seeings how paddy has gone on hloiday and there is nothing more than the odd marching band, your welcome to it. Lions share completed I'd say. You must be a newly qualified aircrew member at a guess?:p

Willy waving is for men who wish to clash swords. :eek:

ChristopherRobin

3rd Feb 2004, 15:18

correct - Zero clearly hasn't served in NI or he wouldn't stick his neck out so far, but as someone said, back to the point - Foz never mind the flying, if you want to be able to put up with a few years in the service then for christ's sake join one with a sense of humour.

On the evidence above, if you've bothered to read through it, you might be forgiven for thinking that rabid zeroes like, er, zero might be the sort of person you'd kill yourself to get away from if he was in your squadron.

Always_broken_in_wilts

3rd Feb 2004, 15:57

And imagine being under the direct command of a bitter and twisted desk jockey:yuk: , who can be compared to a penguin in that he may have wings but he will never fly again:p ...............now where would we find one of those sad sorry specimens in here:p

Peoples perceptions of who did what and when will always be clouded, however when you look at the effectivness of the platforms we operated during the height of the troubles in NI you could not be blamed for thinking us in blue did an awful lot of the work. I think back to the Wokka in that sh!thole S Armagh and it's contribution to the reconstruction of most of the infrastructure. The fact that the Puma, by virtue of it,s superior lifting capability and bigger cabin size was the workhorse on a daily basis while the Lynx carried the QRF.

It has to be accepted that if you operate a fleet of mini cabs you will always appear to be doing less than the outfit operating the fleet of transporters............irrespective of hoursflown/daysworked:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

ChristopherRobin

3rd Feb 2004, 16:22

ok - if you insist in continuing...you really are into a "mine's bigger than yours" argument...

Most balanced observers who spent any time in the province know that the Lynx was there to provide fire support to protect the Puma - we all know that firing practice for puma loadies was desultory at best, and a dereliction of duty at worst - I'd go into more detail to really show up your "professionalism" if this wasn't an unclassified forum - but people who worked there will know what I mean.

So you could lift more in one go - so what? If that's your yardstick of effectiveness in NI then it's hardly any wonder that you were a distant second choice when something other than humping and dumping was required.

And who could forget the 'hilarious' incident when the puma loadie (no pun intended here), thinking he would be really keen and actually load his weapon, managed to stitch a burst of 7.62 straight through 25,000 litres of aviation fuel because he didn't know how to work it? remember that one?

Yep - you're right, the SH boys did a magnificent job of transporting men and materiel out there. But that doesn't detract from the Lynx boys who, let's face it - and judging by your comments above I think you agree - did any proper military flying tasks that needed to be done.

Keep on truckin' always broken.

Always_broken_in_wilts

3rd Feb 2004, 17:01

CR,
It's just too easy:ok: Firstly as a qualified gunnery instructor I spent a fair amount of my time ensuring the laid down currencies were maintained. Our lords and masters set down the periodicity of training and we adhered to that.

Now if you really want to talk about inept weapon handling:p In my time out there I can remember the fence at B'brook being sniped at on more than one occasion by various door gunners:p Bearing in mind the SH Crewman carried out all his weapon drills unsupervised where as his Army couterpart was under the direct control of the Aircraft Commander what does that tell us about your weapon handling prowess:yuk:

Or remember the demonstration of Lynx firepower near X the day the Puma took incoming :ok: 2 x Lynx chased the platform, a flatbed truck as i recall so hardly a feckin GTI:rolleyes: , rained down their combined awesome array of firepower...................and hit **** all. Thank the lord you in the Army train so well on your weapons:ok: Gave us a very warm and fuzzy feeling afterwards!

Or the infamous cross border shoot when some cupcake, probably spacially unaware and forgot the basic ROI. Could sling more mud if you like but I think this will be sufficient:ok:

"But that doesn't detract from the Lynx boys who, let's face it - and judging by your comments above I think you agree - did any proper military flying tasks that needed to be done." ......... er please see above!
:p

Still think my days out there were most enjoyed when i was able to observe the likes of "Big Chas" grinning knowingly at a steady stream of Ruperts as they made yet another inept decision. Thankfully the AAC had loads of proffesional and extremly capable SNCO pilots.......... and only a few non SNCO part timers....... carry on typing sir:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

zerospeed

3rd Feb 2004, 17:50

CR and BOA,

I'm sorry, but you are both mistaken. I have served both in NI and the Gulf. I also feel that because I now train the 'newly qualified pilots', I do have a little authority to post. You are of course correct, NI is very quiet these days, which makes it all the more depressing for the AAC when it can't cover its committment in S Armagh. I'm still very interested to hear exactly where the AAC is actually doing any work? You guys sound like you're newly unqualified:ok:

The man who shot up the fuel tanks had his mistake avenged, when an aux. fuel tank jumped on him in a crash and took him out for almost a year:{

I also think always broken's story about the flatbed and the 2 lynxs has a small error in it. I believe they did hit one thing..... themselves:eek: A 7.62 round was found embedded in one lynx, even though the vietpikey had not used 7.62 weapons:oh:

'the lynx boys who .... did any proper military flying tasks', not if wasn't in S. Armagh they didn't. I remember discussing with the RQHI how he had to fail a pilot on an annual check, as when asked to depart to the north was so maxed out he couldn't identify the SRP and came straight home.:\

MOSTAFA

3rd Feb 2004, 19:22

Boys, come now, you could swap stories from now until xmas and it will not make a difference. Got quite a few myself but not whilst this subject has detracted into a mud slinging contest.

Believe me, over the years we have all done a pretty good job. Yes, plenty and I mean plenty of things have gone wrong, some serious but we have tried to learn from those mistakes and just occasionally had a chuckle at others misfortunes.

I dont like to take sides albeit, all my flying has been in green but I did have the good fortune to fly in the province from 1975 to 2002 on all types and types long gone. Can I suggest all those now involved read the subject again from the start and perhaps start again. We can say the same things but lets leave the venom out. I'm sure we are all familiar with "you should not throw stones in a greenhouse"

Chill

SandChopper

3rd Feb 2004, 22:00

Always broken.........

you left so much out:

Declaring more aircraft than actually exist on a daily basis.
Using crews on UK leave to bulk up the numbers and then complaining when they had to be used.
Frantic scrambling to find a map of anywhere other than 'Bandit Country'. Even when they find the map, forgetting to use it and bonging the border (a bit unfair this one!).
Complaining that the RAF worked 21/7, even though they wouldn've liked to do so themselves.

We could of course go on. As for the BFI shooting? At least the RAF managed to hit something..........

Credit where it is due to the Lynx chaps in the south though, they generally managed to find R850 without GPS!

Hook set, waiting for the reply

:ok:

Foz2,

Almost forgot.

Despite all of the light hearted banter that you have read, or maybe chosen to ignore, it's up to you to make the choice. Research all 3 Services and make an informed decision.......

With any luck you'll have a great time.:O

Eight Eights Blue

4th Feb 2004, 05:04

STANDBY!! STANDBY!!

Broken in Wilts,

No wonder your always BROKE, your always P$ssed. As for alcohol induced spoiling mistooks, what in the gods name were you on about when you said about the basic ROI, your right the Republic of Ireland is basic. What you probably meant was basic ROE which means Rules of Engagement, ask your loadie for more information as he should know with his weapons experience. Ha! Ha! my Ar$e.
Having served as the mighty SACSA (Supreme Aviation Commander South Armagh) I think your getting ideas above your station my old chappie, firstly the Loadies did not even load their weapons and the reason being it was probably too dangerous when you were carrying all the mailsacks and rations back and fore to the towers while the MIGHTY TWIN TORQUE TANDEM TEAM were fighting the enemy. Your out of your league old boy, now back in your cage and back to the G & T's.

Foz 2

Sorry matey got carried away there, good luck whatever you choose to do.

Always_broken_in_wilts

4th Feb 2004, 05:18

88B,
I am the loadie and it's been "7 fantastic fixed wing travelling round the world having the time of my life" years since I had the displeasure of operating in the province...........hence my typo:ok: but apart form that very well spotted.

We did load our weapons but were not so stupid as to EVER move the working parts........apart from when we collected it from the armoury:p Theory being that if you don't move the working parts the fuc@in thing can't go bang:rolleyes:, and you get to keep that months wages. A theory that worked extremely well for me during my time in province:p and obviously not something subscribed to by our cammed up brethren:p, hence the multitude of little perforations in the Bessbrook fence.

"while the MIGHTY TWIN TORQUE TANDEM TEAM were fighting the enemy":yuk:

So when exactly was this and, apart from each other, what the **** did you ever hit..........apart from the Republic:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

jayteeto

4th Feb 2004, 10:15

CR... I have to take exception with your posts, what is wrong with you, acting like a corned animal and snapping comments at anyone who dares to criticise your views. If you pick with the crows, you risk being shot at...
The loadie who leaded the petrol 'didn't know how to work his gun'?? He is worth 10 of you my man. He helped me get through my first tour when I was struggling to make the grade. (I'm retired now) He made what is commonly known as 'a mistake'. People do that, believe it or not. You may discover this fact and wish you had kept quiet.
The vulcan pilot is not my favourite person, but he lives with that decision every day. He doesn't need you to give him a hard time. Have some decency and leave him alone.
One thing I will back up, is the professionalism of all 3 services. They are all different and take the P**s, but they all do a good job. I joined the the Lynx shootup party in S Armagh minutes after things happened. The crews were superb that day and did everything right other than hit the car. We then all did a very exciting follow up and made some arrests. That night we bantered each other rotten. But it was in jest!!! Learn that banter is healthy, insulting is not......... :ouch:

ChristopherRobin

4th Feb 2004, 19:36

is it me - or has anyone not yet noticed that the most rabid posts have come from people other than myself?

And the loadie who DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO WORK HIS GUN - he "made a mistake" - poor diddums - we call that a negligent discharge in the army and no one gets, or deserves, any sympathy for it, no matter how many tree-hugging, shoulder-crying focus groups he has led.

If you go back to my very first post, I mentioned that some people on these forums think that it's for RAF only - and I have that impression more strongly than ever - particularly when people like you, Jayteeto are happy to criticise me but not others for similar behaviour.

I am happy to take the criticism - my shoulders are broad, and I don't generally take offence at words unlike many who so clearly do - but if you're going to criticise, look further than just one person.

...and if not - bring it on - but I don't snap at people who "dare to criticise [my] views".

I just like baiting people with thin skins - plenty of them around, too.

Always_broken_in_wilts

4th Feb 2004, 20:54

Cr old fella,

You start with........ "is it me - or has anyone not yet noticed that the most rabid posts have come from people other than myself?"

Then follow up with your next, in a long list of well balanced comments ............"And the loadie who DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO WORK HIS GUN - he "made a mistake" - poor diddums - we call that a negligent discharge in the army and no one gets, or deserves, any sympathy for it, no matter how many tree-hugging, shoulder-crying focus groups he has led"....................You truely are a Stroker:ok:

It's called an "ND" in the RAF as well and he would have been financially walloped, I seem to recall a months wages being the going fine when when I was last in province. for it, but as he didn't do it on purpose we also accept that he made a mistake.

We don't, thank ****:p , subscribe to the Army method of man management, and based on the hostility of your posts in here I thank the lord my dad refused to let me join the Army at the age of 16 cos working for the likes of you must be a barrel of larf's.

So in answer to your opening question you stop steaming in here with foam dripping from your fangs and we will stop answering you in the manner befitting your outbursts:ok: Nuff said

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

ChristopherRobin

4th Feb 2004, 22:39

"negligent" means doing something through carelessness - it has nothing to do with whether or not it was done on purpose - hence the term.

How you can infer my man-management skills or otherwise from application of one of the most clearcut sections of QRs is beyond me.

Clearly your dad kept you from joining the army because he realised that you were a bit of a sensitive chap. And I agree with you - thank the lord he did stop you from joining the army - I wouldn't want someone working for me who called someone a "stroker" just because he disagreed with his point of view.

- insults - last resort of someone who wasn't any good at giving or taking banter in the first place.

Always_broken_in_wilts

5th Feb 2004, 02:08

CR,
Good grief:rolleyes: "- insults - last resort of someone who wasn't any good at giving or taking banter in the first place."

Go back and read your posts fella and you may come to understand why so many of us on here have taken issue with you:ok: Hardly a paragraph goes by without you directly or indirectly insulting someone so it's a bit pot and kettle i think.

And as for "And what about the celebrated RAF officer that I learned about in this very forum that a vulcan for no good reason leaving his back-seaters to die?"

That sort of remark is truely scurrilous, should never be mentioned in these forums and you should be ashamed of yourself.

I lost 3 friends in one incident during my NI times and I have my own beliefs as to why they so needlessly died but would NEVER EVER mention those views in here or any other public forum:}

According to the Encarta dictionary the verb insult means to "say or do something suggesting a low opinion of somebody or something" Works for me:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

Bill O'Average

5th Feb 2004, 03:46

Do you want to give it a rest and stop dragging Foz's post into the usual bitching session?

I would imagine Foz is now on short finals to the bleedin Navy!

Nice one ABIW.

jayteeto

5th Feb 2004, 03:54

By the way... Always Broken in Wilts. Are you the loadie formerly known to us as rude crewman? If you are, hello!! How are things going? We need to have a beer sometime. After a few years at CFS Shawbury, I concluded that some of the youngsters coming through miss a vital part of military development.
The crewroom.... The apprenticeship...
It just doesn't happen as much due to ops/dets etc. The men and women are just as skilful as ever, but are thrust forward too early sometimes. CR, yes I agree on the description of negligent discharge. But in the aviation world, this happens. Not just to the RAF either. But the aim of a good officer and supervisor is to think of ways to stop errors happening again, not slagging off those who did it. Believe me, it COULD happen to you. (errors, not just NDs). All that happens to someone who has your attitude is that their men just 'forget' to report errors/overtorques/exceeded limits. Risking the next persons life. It isn't right, but it is fact. Help, not berate, please!

timex

5th Feb 2004, 04:06

Fozz, join the RM (commission first!) and then go Junglie, you'll like it.

Always_broken_in_wilts

5th Feb 2004, 07:42

Jayteeto,
Might be :ok: Now occasionaly refered to as lewd loadie:p

Wild stab in the dark but based on your "handle" are you by any chance form the North East with a bit of Baldrick in you?:p If I am right nice to see your common sense approach has not changed. I can get meself on a "J" next time one comes to Strawbury for an end of course do then we can certainly enjoy a beer or two. On that front let me know when your future grad's are and if tasking permits maybe we can pop up for an overnighter:ok:

BO.......At least he will meet a better class of bloke there:p

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

ChristopherRobin

5th Feb 2004, 15:47

ABIW - you said that "That sort of remark is truely scurrilous, should never be mentioned in these forums and you should be ashamed of yourself."

Why? - it was a big point of discussion in these forums a few years back - and that's how I heard about it.

You strike me, "fella", as somone who is very easily insulted and I therefore refer you to my last remark about why it's just as well you didn't join the army because you wouldn't have lasted five minutes if you bleated every time you heard something you didn't like.

And "so many" of you have taken issue with what I've said? oh really? about 3 or 4 people, at most, and believe me, those are the sort of statistics that won't keep me awake at night.

So don't take the moral high ground with me. You are clearly unable to spot the difference between being personally insulted by an oblique reference to the organisation to which you belong and an actual personal insult.

I've delivered plenty of the former, (and what's wrong with that?) but you have proved yourself to be a rather clumsy exponent of the latter.

It's not as if inter-service banter is anything new on PPRune - but for some reason it really gets up your nose.

And anyway - why would Foz want advice from you on becoming a pilot? - you're a loadie. I wouldn't dream on giving someone advice on something I knew nothing about, apart from you getting a life, of course.

teeteringhead

5th Feb 2004, 18:00

jayteeto
But in the aviation world, this happens.
i presume that "this" is an anagram of sorts.......:rolleyes:

ABIW
trouble with trying to get a beer with jayteeto is the amount of unsocial hours he spends pounding his airborne beat! Mind you, at least he knows his days off months/years in advance now .... not even CFS could always manage that! :D

Always_broken_in_wilts

5th Feb 2004, 18:50

CR,
As an ex pilot one could ask the question what the **** do you know about being a loadie, their training or any of the associated duties there in:}

As an ex TWA pilot one could ask what the **** do you know about fixed wing captaincy and the life threatening decisions to be made in that job:}

As a Rupert one could ask what the **** do you ACTUALLY know about being a commisioned officer and pilot in the RAF:rolleyes:

Your apparent ignorance to any of the above is has not stopped you posting "with confidence" in here on subjects you know very litle about :rolleyes:

The basic crew on a Puma was Pilot + pilot/nav + crewman, On a J model herc it is pilot + pilot + Loadmaster. I have for the last 15 shared crewrooms, classrooms, flightdecks and bedrooms with pilots. We continuously cross fertilize as neither trade can do our jobs properly without a basic understanding of each others task needs. Without overstating my role I currently teach VERY BASIC ALM SUBJECTS to new pilots entering the J world. It's not "pilot sh!t mav" but as the aircraft captians it is information they must know.

You are correct I am not a pilot but I think based on my years of experiance I am able to offer some well rounded, although often extremely biased, advice to those seeking a future in military aviation :ok:

Now a spot of advice to you would be to take a leaf out of Bill O's book and learn to spot your enemy at a very early stage:rolleyes: There are some of us who love to come into these forums with a serious wish to contribute but also couple that with an inbread desire to poke around under the rocks to see what we can startle into veiw. :ok: And whilst it may offend you a pompous ass is just a "target rich environment" for the likes of me.

Now like I said before go back through this thread and have a look at your posts and ask yourself why people took offence...........and why I saw it as a oppertunity not to be missed:p

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

ChristopherRobin

5th Feb 2004, 19:20

...I'll take that as a bite then.

And I'm sure that we'd all like to hear a little bit more about how you cross fertilise with pilots in their bedrooms!

Now you, with your "years of experience" should know what a freudian slip is?

I bow to your greater knowledge, experience, spelling capability and sanctimony.

jayteeto

5th Feb 2004, 22:56

CR... much better!! Now that is banter. Mind you, the pilots must be pretty desperate if they want to cross pollenate with ABIW. He used to scare soldiers with those boyish looks...

Incoming!!

Bill O'Average

5th Feb 2004, 22:58

No stick, no vote?:p

Crewmen are made to feel wanted due to the front feeling sorry for them not achieving. Horrorbox supervisor.:D

Always_broken_in_wilts

5th Feb 2004, 23:49

CR,
Is it by chance an item of german lingerie:p

Jayteeto,
I have said it before and will say it again it only hurts the first time:uhoh: and does'nt taste that bad:E

Bill 'o
The RAF developed CRM to deal with your like:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

Bill O'Average

5th Feb 2004, 23:57

But you are in-flight manager of packed lunches though? ;)

Foz2

8th Feb 2004, 00:51

Bl**dy Hell!!!

I havent logged on for a few days and I come back to find that this thread has totally kicked off!! It certainly is handbags at dawn!! I think Ive learnt more about inter- service rivalry than anything else!!! Good stuff! Thanks for all your posts anyway, I think Ive got a reasonably clear picture now of how each of the three careers might pan out.

Cheers chaps!

Foz.

Ps. If I went for the Navy, would I spend most of my time at sea or would it be a mixture. (This would be heli flying btw).

timex

8th Feb 2004, 01:58

Ps. If I went for the Navy, would I spend most of my time at sea or would it be a mixture. (This would be heli flying btw).

Fozz, if you go Junglie, you will spend some time at sea but the majority of your time will be spent all over the place, very very busy. Highly enjoyable....

Foz2

8th Feb 2004, 07:26

Timex,

Forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean by going 'Junglie'??

Cheers.

foz.

Bill O'Average

8th Feb 2004, 09:54

Junglie= Mk4 Sea King/Commando, main support to Royal Marines. Tend to do main hump and dump of said knuckle draggers and do lots and lots of green work. Top blokes the lot and work their tit5 off all over the place. Wear green most of the time instead of P+O stewards kit like the remainder of FAA.

Down to earth types with a mutual agreement that RAF SH are woofters. Good eggs and much respect. Even though they are a bunch of cowboys and cant drink for toffee. At least they aint crabs!!

Rotary Pongo

8th Feb 2004, 18:33

Foz2....

Well, I must say that I'm quite disappointed by the way this thread has gone. Rather than a reasoned discussion it has degenerated into a willy waving contest about semantics around stories people know not enough about or, in a couple of cases, those who just like trying to get a response.

I stand by what I said in my original post and that is my honest view. And it follows a similar line to Bill's subsequent one.

The key decision for you....and this is why I could never be in the RAF...is...Do you just want to fly and aren't too interested in the military/officer/leadership bit. While I personally can't stand that view many RAF Officers will openly admit that is why they joined. Some would even say….what’s wrong with that?

I might not agree with it but that doesn't mean they are bad pilots...of course they're not. Or even bad blokes in some cases. But in terms of being what I would see as a good officer...well, there have been so many instances where you know they are thinking 'I can't be arrsed with doing this duty or organising this, when can I fly again'. Again, Leadership is not taught in a command task. I was astounded to find out that RAF Pilots are 're-coursed' at Cranwell for being rubbish and then allowed to remain in the RAF's most select branch. If you are a poor officer by Cranwell standards (which are hardly stellar)....then why on earth should they then be allowed to serve in the most select branch? Again they would argue, we’re only here to fly. Fine, if that’s what you want.

Not that Sandhurst is the be all and end all and some knobs do get through into the AAC but at least they have been tested a bit. If you are crap at RMAS, and I mean outside of the top 50% of the intake (you’d be lucky to get any half decent Regt/Corps to take you if you were back termed/re-coursed), then forget about the AAC. Remember that you do not have a trade/branch at the start of Sandhurst and there is a chance that out of the 6 or so of the 240 in the intake that go AAC then you may not make it in if your reports aren’t good enough. Then you’ll be in the R Artillery or something else for 3 years. I wouldn’t of minded that too much as being an Army Officer is a superb and demanding job in it’s own right…..flying is a bonus but it is not the only reason I joined.

The overwhelming point is…what do you want out of your career? Flying or being an officer, or a combination of the two. Bill’s post about AAC – Apache, then going R Navy (or Marines) when desk job looms large is the most sensible thing on here so far.

As I said before, when flying ends it'll be a sad day but there are many other challenges awaiting me in the rest of my career equally and more demanding than flying.

Best of luck…but go into it with your eyes open.

Chicken Leg

8th Feb 2004, 22:45

This is without doubt the worst thread that I have had the miss fortune to read on this forum in a long time.

We expect dross from the likes of ABIW, but I must say that I am disappointed with Chris Robin. Your posts are normally well balanced and often informative, but not on this thread I'm afraid.

Come on guys, Sort it out. Its not even banter, at least banter is normally slightly amusing.

Bill O'Average

8th Feb 2004, 23:30

I'll agree with that too.

cobaltfrog

9th Feb 2004, 01:02

As a Fleet Air Arm Pilot who is a junglie and has flown both Lynx 7 and Sea King 4 (Both not very well!) I can only say that there are quite a few members of the RAF and AAC whom I have a lot of respect for. In any service you will find people who do not fit the bill and give everyone else a bad name but, nevertheless, they do their job.

The three services do things differently by virtue of the job they do. In this joint era it is more important that we know each others strengths NOT weaknesses.

In my humble opinion!

one eye

9th Feb 2004, 04:38

I have just read this thread and am shocked at the abuse and banter that is being thrown around. Why can’t the three services just except that all our aviator and structures are slightly different, but they fit within our organisations. We all contribute, but in slightly different ways. The all commissioned airforce and Navy route would never work in the Army, quite simply because the Army commissions for different reasons than the Airforce. The professional aviators in the Army are enlisted. The airforce would be very poor operating an Apache as its Attack pilots don’t understand how the grunt thinks and therefore the Manoeuvre Battle would confuse them somewhat. On the other hand the Army does not seem to be able to get a set of SPINS or ACO out to its aviators in anything less than two days to late. The Navy however seems to just get on with its job and watch the squabbling from the side line and work quite nicely within its own world.

I have worked with all three services for many years as an aviator and when on joint ops, I have found we compliment each other nicely, but when on our own there is something lacking.

So just kiss and make up

The Cryptkeeper

9th Feb 2004, 21:41

Crikey! There's a few teddies in corners on this thread! Can't we all just get along??!! Here's food for thought - most pilots in the AAC would jump at the chance to transfer to the RAF - I know because I'm one of them and all the people I know feel the same!!! (Trouble is the RAF won't even give you a second glance if you're an NCO though - b@gger!) I have the utmost respect for our light blue brethren - they are thoroughly professional and in the Air Force flying comes first - most of my peers agree there is too much Army in the AAC and that's the main problem.

Bill O'Average

10th Feb 2004, 00:09

Bye then.:O

:ok:

Always_broken_in_wilts

10th Feb 2004, 08:48

Crypt,

At last:ok: .......................a truthful and honest post :p Nice one Dude:E

But don't do your self down fella cos, for those of you old enough to remember him, we took "AJ" off your hands:sad:.........Once a Staff Sgt ALWAYS a Feckin Staff Sgt :ok: So there is scope for you all, well apart from " Wrinkled Willy" of course, if you so wish:O

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

MOSTAFA

10th Feb 2004, 15:39

Fellah, now you have made it personal. There is absolutely no need to drag names into these forums. Besides, if you want to name dropnames in like that remember you took him twice! and a safer; or for that matter more experienced pair of hands, you find hard to better in all 3 services. I would start apoligising if I were you.

ChristopherRobin

10th Feb 2004, 16:13

Hey - what's wrong with having a go at people? Did everyone just get all sensitive all of a sudden?

This is a bit like the TV - if you don't like it, there is always the off button, but no. Clearly there are more than a few people haunting these forums that fancy themselves as the spiritual successors to Mary Whitehouse.

If you don't like what I've said, then fine - I respect your opinion, but if you want to restrict my freedom to say it, then I can't say I'd look at it in the same light.

Screw the nut Fizzog? Bore on! Nice the way you put it that I've pulled the thread into the gutter. Totally my fault. How even-handed of you.

Now stop acting like an overgrown school-prefect - you've either just discovered this forum and haven't seen some of the stuff that's been written in the past, or are just someone who
has seen the stuff written in the past and are trying to reinvent yourself as someone else.

Whatever, I enjoy a bit of smug sanctimony from people like you (as is your right).

Any more?

Always_broken_in_wilts

10th Feb 2004, 16:33

Mos old chap.
You have the wrong end of the stick mate.....as our QHI he had without doubt the most gifted pair of hands I have witnessed:ok: his ability to demonstrate all the rudimentary and more advanced techniques was a joy to watch.

However, and whilst I hate using this analogy as it normally comes back to bite me :E , "you can take the man out of the army but you can't take the army out of the man" and in the time I knew, liked and respected the guy this was definately the case for me:p

The point I was trying, pretty poorly it would seem, to make was that being an AAC SNCO should not be a drawback to becoming a proffesional pilot in the RAF.

Chill out mate:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

ChristopherRobin

10th Feb 2004, 18:00

thanks - interesting websites you browse - still it's now legal and I am prepared to live and let live.

At least the RAF is more tolerant of those who wish to follow 'alternative' lifestyles, so in that respect they are way ahead of the rest of us.

flygunz

11th Feb 2004, 04:57

fizzog
You could have put a health warning on that link, phew... is that where one gets an alternative lifestyle?
Seems like I've led a sheltered life in the Army, it must be a hoot in the Air Force, do you get to dress up as well?
Someone please explain the wrinkled willy thing for a dumb pongo.
:confused:

PretoriaSillyperson

11th Feb 2004, 06:58

Well, I did hesitate to reply to this one because I do think it would be a shame to keep it live, however, the urge overcame me (Sarnt Major), so listen up!

I held Brenda's Ticket in the Bleeps for 3 years and worked only occasionally with the RAF but they were - by and large - decent types. As, I hope, were we. We are after all from the same country and from similar backgrounds (if one discounts the H.Cavalry). Is it really therefore possible that RMAS and Cranwell could set us on paths to such seemingly different characters?

Also, this topic has been a pisspoor representation of both the Harmy and the RAF types. Please stop it!

Finally, considering that we're Hofficers and NCO's - what the Biggins has happened to our grammar and spelling? I mean - I'm drunk now and I seem to manage OK.

Oops. did I just start another riot?

Hope not.

I_stood_in_the_door

18th Feb 2004, 23:44

Having read 'Chickenhawk' can I now join the AAC 'teeny weeny chaps'. Or do we not have enough munitions as our american brethren? Apache for officers, I say!

isitd

:}

Echo 5

19th Feb 2004, 04:24

Aha - ISITD,

A touch of class at last !!

fizzog,

Must take exception to your use of the word "muppet" a few days ago.
Muppets are fine upstanding guys (and gals).

E5 :ok:

Grimweasel

19th Feb 2004, 04:47

I too have read chixhawk can I fly the glass bubble too??

Apache...another procurement foul up (pun) what next ? Mil-26's?b

I_stood_in_the_door

20th Feb 2004, 23:07

Echo and the grim one,

Seem to have scared the blighters off -probably painting thegrass green!

To the mess for more G n Ts.

isitd

:8

Tuts

22nd Feb 2004, 00:20

I think that maybe you officer types out there should look at who you are representing, ie. your capbadge and commission! You are all dragging them into the dirt and as an NCO in the AAC I think that CR needs a good slap around the face. I would be embarrassed to have you as one of my orificers, you do yourself no credit by backpedalling and trying to pretend your insults were actually humour, PAH! You are just a sad deskdriver now who instead of surfing LFA's, now surfs the WWW too much in Army time, get some work done, SIR!

As for the rest of you, try not to put the threadstarter off too much. You've all frightened him into the Navy!

Always_broken_in_wilts

22nd Feb 2004, 04:54

TUTS,

Round of applause fella:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

Bill O'Average

22nd Feb 2004, 08:46

A career laugh from the military wing of Serviceair in the shape of always broken in wilts, nay a glorified baggage handler.:ok:

An opinion as worthy as the local pikey down the Old Dog and Duck.:p

Prey tell of more wisdom from the rear white box arranger.:8

Always_broken_in_wilts

22nd Feb 2004, 17:34

Cheers Bill:ok:

Was hoping someone would come in and validate TUTS point.....you couldn't have proved it better Sir:E

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

Bill O'Average

22nd Feb 2004, 20:40

Sooo wrong ABIW. ;)

I work for a living.:ok:

Echo 5

23rd Feb 2004, 00:27

BO,

After that outrageous thread which you intoduced last week and it's rather hasty removal by the Moderator,I thought you may want to retain what dignity you have left and keep your head down.
Perhaps a change of pseudonym would be advised cos your constant attacks on one of our number leaves you with no credibility whatsoever.Or is it all tongue in cheek? That's the usual
excuse.

E5

PS; On reflection. It's a shame your thread wasn't left on for a couple of days so that a lot more people could see what a totally vindictive prat you really are.:8

I_stood_in_the_door

24th Feb 2004, 00:27

Echo 5,

Hear, hear! BO (ooh what a smell!) is a bit of a bell. Didn't get the pleasure of his post but my imagination certainly works!

TUTS,

Read the clues old chap, the enlisted peeps should stick together.

Now, does this pedal make me go to the right or the left? And whats this colonic for?

Nark, nark.

isitd

:}

ABIW,

Obviously not broken today - the 10 (or was it 11?) ship today was good to see.

I remember the days when a 16 ship was old hat and seen on a regular basis. How times change!

Good show!

isitd

:8

Bill O'Average

24th Feb 2004, 02:45

Awww, did the nasty man say something horrid to the sensitive luggage arranger?

Btw I feel no remorse over any post I have made under this user name. Shame some need to use the quantity rather than quality angle when posting. But I guess the white sock wearing airborne wing of securicor are a close bunch.

Always_broken_in_wilts

24th Feb 2004, 02:49

I Stood shame on you:E ................looks a if you have angered the "ossifer".....kinda proves TUT's theory tho':p

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

Echo 5

24th Feb 2004, 15:20

BO,

Not only does your arrogance and ignorance know no bounds,you are also full of sh!t.

E5 :8

I_stood_in_the_door

24th Feb 2004, 17:53

ABIW,

Surely that should read 'T'ossifer'?

Tee Hee!

Book me another taxi, Bill O!

isitd

:}

Tuts

24th Feb 2004, 21:55

NAY, I disagree. I have some brilliant officers (tad of brown appears on end of nose!:O ). A lot of the AAC officers are so much more down to earth than RAF ones. Just the odd ones (mainly sproggy jumped up idiots like CR) are TWATS and bring themselves down in such a public way. They forget that the entry requirement to the Pprune forum is a valid email adress and not a MOD 90 or equivelant, and therefore Joe Bloggs and his band of merry brothers can happily read how much of an idiot he/ she is making of themselves and therefore their corps. I don't mean to sound a real by the book type, 'cos that I'm definitely not. However, some restraint is required, especially if you pronounce yourself to be of the toffee eating variety of service(wo)men. HAR HAR! Us enlisted can happily say what we want because we're known to have fookin mouths like fookin troopers, awreight!